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Stop grooming pistes??

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Sarge McSarge, the ski industry is artificial inflated to attract the mass market (piste skiing) . When these package holiday folks run out of money because of problems back home & rising ski area prices it will implode..eveything inc Hotels
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Never mind the grooming, it must be of some concern the direction of skiing in the U.K. Is the next generation still skiing despite housing costs, debt, flat economy etc?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@alr1970, Cheers for the pic. That looks like fun. Could deffo see those lumps turning into moguls if left unbashed. Never skied Flaine but from the pic it does look like a purple end of the spectrum blue?
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I did notice in Zell a couple of weeks ago that some of the pistes were suffixed by an "X" which meant ungroomed unfortunately there wasnt enough snow to take advantage of these without doig serius damage to your bases
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
dode wrote:
@alr1970, Cheers for the pic. That looks like fun. Could deffo see those lumps turning into moguls if left unbashed. Never skied Flaine but from the pic it does look like a purple end of the spectrum blue?


It is quite fun when the lifts are about to close and the crowds have abated, but a bit hellish when it's busy.

The photo is on a really not that steep bit. But it's narrow so all the traffic funnels through and everyone has to slow down. All those turns and that is the result.
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[quote="alr1970"]
alr1970 wrote:


4pm today. I will admit that people were not skiing them as moguls, but mostly steering a path through the valleys between them.


OK, it's time for me to look like a clueless wally rolling eyes Embarassed ....

If "steering a path through the valleys between them" isn't "skiing them as moguls", what is?
I've only ever considered going round the bumps but your comment suggests more able skiers do something else - I presume they / you go over the top of the bumps.
Is that the proper way to deal with moguls?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Peter S wrote:
........flat economy etc?


rolling eyes
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Red Leon, I don't think there's any one "proper" way, but you can slow down by sliding up a bump and utilise the un-weighting coming off the top to turn the skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The first time I was taught to ski moguls (back on long skis) my teacher told us to ride up the mogul, turn on the summit, then ride down, and repeat. He explained that by turning on the tops only the snow beneath your boots was in contact with your skis (ie tips and tails were in mid air and not touching the snow)so it made the turn easier.
I remember wondering at the time that if everyone turns on the tops then how did they form in the first place Puzzled
Took me a while to realise there was more than one method.
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Well going over the tops isn't the fastest way


http://youtube.com/v/8Thj7yqPSOE
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Dave of the Marmottes, won't let me play the vid...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@dode, works for me if I click on "watch on YouTube"
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Dave of the Marmottes, it's astonish how dated and rather weird looking that mogul competition is. Add in the silly ski suits and it reminds me very strongly of the 80's ski ballet.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nice picture of an ungroomed piste https://t.co/M703nF14Dn

One person on one piste! Will other pistes be overcrowded Puzzled
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stewart woodward wrote:
Nice picture of an ungroomed piste https://t.co/M703nF14Dn

One person on one piste! Will other pistes be overcrowded Puzzled


She probably made all the moguls herself too
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
chomski wrote:
Why groom pistes? Because your average (UK) skier doesn't get more than a week or so a year skiing. We are not great skiers. We don't like being catapulted back bottom over tit by moguls and snow drifts. A groomed piste may be tame and tedious to the experts but for the halt and the lame it is a thing of joy and excitement. Just because we are not very skilled doesn't make us nobheads.

Late to the party.

I doubt ski resorts in the Alps were groomed to cater to UK skiers alone.

French and Italian skiers probably ski more than 1 week a year.

That said, there's a purpose for the grooming, specifically for high speed cruising. Many good skiers I know LOVE cruising on well-groomed runs at relatively high speed. I'm talking about skiers who CAN handle ungroomed snows and enjoy skiing on natural snow.

Personally, I think grooming of pistes is but ONE aspect of skiing. The fact too many people see it as the ONLY aspect of skiing is a different matter.

If indeed 90% of the skiers only knows how to ski on groomed snow, then it's no surprise the groomed pistes are too crowded. That makes it impossible for even the skilled skiers to actually enjoy the groomed surface. If I feel like slaloming around obstacles, I prefer trees or moguls that don't move, over slow skiers who changes direction randomly.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
[quote="Red Leon"]
alr1970 wrote:
alr1970 wrote:


4pm today. I will admit that people were not skiing them as moguls, but mostly steering a path through the valleys between them.


OK, it's time for me to look like a clueless wally rolling eyes Embarassed ....

If "steering a path through the valleys between them" isn't "skiing them as moguls", what is?
I've only ever considered going round the bumps but your comment suggests more able skiers do something else - I presume they / you go over the top of the bumps.
Is that the proper way to deal with moguls?

I'm not so sure about "steering a path through the valleys" as "not skiing them as moguls"?

My preferred path through mogul field is "in the valley". Not at the bottom of the valley, but from the side of one mogul to the side of the opposing mogul. Use them to turn without going up and down over the top and valley too much. When the moguls are tight, I go to the outside of the opposing moguls.

But when the moguls are sufficiently widely spaced, my path would be a proper "zipper line". I'm pretty sure that's considered "proper" path through mogul since that's what competition skiers do.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I was in the states a couple of years ago for the winter and went all over the NE ..they have lots of ungroomed runs there and some enormous mogul fields ..I didnt find one proper one in the 3 weeks I was in the Alps this winter ...apart from the few in Zell with no snow on them ..non on the Sella Ronda and neither in the 3V ...even Goitschel in Val Thorens was smooth this season
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Red Leon wrote:
If "steering a path through the valleys between them" isn't "skiing them as moguls", what is?


Straightlining them. Keep your knees flexible and just go straight down the fall line.





(Not claiming I can do that.)
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

OK, it's time for me to look like a clueless wally ....

If "steering a path through the valleys between them" isn't "skiing them as moguls", what is?
I've only ever considered going round the bumps but your comment suggests more able skiers do something else - I presume they / you go over the top of the bumps.
Is that the proper way to deal with moguls?


It is one (perfectly acceptable if the conditions allow) way of skiing moguls. I'd say there aere three main tactics you can use:
1. staying in the troughs - can get challenging on steeper ground because it is tricky to control speed staying in the troughs, you may get "spat out" or pushed into one of the other tactics
2. ski the backs of the moguls - ski into the trough then turn on the back slope of a mogul and absorb (deep flex) to control speed and set up the pivot into the next trough
3. turn on the tops - slide down the front of the mogul, compress in the bottom, rise up the back of the next one and pivot on the top of the next where friction is lowest.

I generally use tactic 2 unless the slope is gentle and/or the section short when I might follow the troughs.
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Quote:

dated and rather weird looking that mogul competition is.


I don't think so myself!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
^ foxtrotzulu is a refugee from the future where sunglasses are the only acceptable form of ski eyewear and no one wears belts or owns skis or skis ungroomed so I think his views are probably by reference to this future world.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Dave of the Marmottes, you may have a point.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've always felt Austrian resorts are over-pisted. I'd like to see a few more runs left un-pisted. Or at least sides of wider pistes un-pisted (this is a great way to learn how to ski moguls, as you can dip into them for a stretch & then pop back out to the piste as necessary). You avoid having to do a designated "mogul-run" and can mix it up
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@farlep99,
Quote:

sides of wider pistes un-pisted (this is a great way to learn how to ski moguls, as you can dip into them for a stretch & then pop back out to the piste as necessary). You avoid having to do a designated "mogul-run" and can mix it up

+1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

But when the moguls are sufficiently widely spaced, my path would be a proper "zipper line". I'm pretty sure that's considered "proper" path through mogul since that's what competition skiers do.


Hmmmmm. It might be the fastest route down but 'proper' depends on the conditions and circumstances. For example, anyone skiing down La Face like the downhill Olympic competitors did while it's open to the public would be considered, by me at least, to be skiing like an idiot
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
it's a toughy. When I started out, the bottom section of the White Lady was always mogulled. Living just over an hour away allowed me to join the school ski club, we could try afresh every weekend. She made me want to learn enuff skills to ski her. I will never forget my OH's words when asked "what do you really want from skiing" she replied "to ski the White Lady with a smile on her face", was a lightening bolt moment as far as being in a relationship was concerned
Now... I'm a dedicated piste skier. I really appreciate all the bashers that create corduroy out with normal working hours. But if everything gets too groomed..... No one will learn the tricky stuff.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
dode wrote:
I really appreciate all the bashers that create corduroy out with normal working hours. But if everything gets too groomed..... No one will learn the tricky stuff.


I don't necessarily disagree but that's a bit like the 'calculator vs slide-rule' scenario. I learned to use a slide-rule (and log tables!) because they were needed at the time - but they are no longer necessary. Ditto with skiing in crap conditions - if someone wants to learn, they can but modern technology means there's no need for everyone to learn those skills any more.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'd hazard a guess that any reduction in piste grooming will result in a proportional number of injuries. The reason resorts groom pistes is because the vast majority of paying customers prefer skiing on groomed pistes. If a resort stops grooming and loses customers as a result you can bet your life they'll be grooming the next season.
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