 Poster: A snowHead
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Wondered this for quite a while, especially whilst reading reviews, testing skis... Now prompted to post seeing a few replies to recent requests.
So what do all these various descriptive terms for how different skis respond really mean? Is there a concensus definition of each?
e.g. "damp", "playful", "responsive", "lively" - and many, many more.
How does this correlate with stiff/flexible (long or torsionally), type of core (composite, wood, Ti), overally construction & sidewalls, intended user (intermediate, expert, race), sidecut/radius/waist, etc etc - if at all?
Can anyone provide definitions/explanations - and fill in and expand upon the many missing terms which I've forgotten?
Ta 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And how about "squirrelly"?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well, at least you got the apostrophe in the right place - which is more than can be said for many recently.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Basalt stringers- discuss
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| Basalt stringers- discuss |
The Darkside is strong within you, Darth Snowboarder. 
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@Old Fartbag, take that back you scoundrel.. I drop knees not bombs you know....
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| ed123 wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, take that back you scoundrel.. |
Never!
(Consider yourself smacked with a Ski Glove)
I'll lend you a Ski Pole and we can settle this by Jousting.....or a Duel......or something.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect a lot of these descriptions and reviews are just like folks commenting on wine tastings: If you cover the labels up; they often can't tell the difference between most of them, and trip-up big time when it comes to distinguishing between the expensive and cheap wines.
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Slarve was what Shane McConkey blessed the world with - a sliding carve. Stivot is a move deriving from GS racing - see Ted Ligety. Squirrelly - twitchy. Damp - soaks up uneven surfaces, Lively - releases quite a lot is stored energy, responsive - does what you tell it to without much lag, playful - a shape that will perform well to messing about" inputs rather than or as well as "pure" technique.
Generally a carbon construction of the same ski will be more sqiuirrelly and livlier then a fibreglass or a glass + metal layup. The latter will the dampest. Squirrelly would be bad in a downhill ski or an Alaskan straightlining ski but might actually be good in a lower speed tree or bump ski.
Wine's not a terrible analogy - there is no doubt stuff tastes different and a piste race ski will never excel in pure powder and vice versa - like a dessert wine would be pretty terrible as an old world mature red.
[/ end ski snob trap walked into]
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Has anyone ever walked into a ski shop and asked for a damp, non popping, unresponsive, non hard charging ski? 😀
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Whitty, There is a whole thread about why would anyone rent anything more than the most basic ski package, in his case £24 for a week. He basically got 4 year old beginner's ski that would fulfill your requirement of damp, non popping, unresponsive, non hard charging.
Along with @Poogle's, wine analogy, using different types of cars is also a good analogy. Not just in description, but also in use, as many treat their cars as white goods, and have no interest in them, which is the same as with their skis.......
A few examples:
F1 car - ultra responsive, most could not drive it, so maybe a WC Salom ski.
Super car - very fast, boring doing anything else, so maybe a WC Downhill or GS ski.
4x4 - heavy and damp, so maybe a hard charger, big mountain ski, which sucks everything up.
Hot hatch - sporty, playful, responsive, good at everything, maybe the All Mountain ski.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
@Whitty, There is a whole thread about why would anyone rent anything more than the most basic ski package, in his case £24 for a week. He basically got 4 year old beginner's ski that would fulfill your requirement of damp, non popping, unresponsive, non hard charging.
Along with @Poogle's, wine analogy, using different types of cars is also a good analogy. Not just in description, but also in use, as many treat their cars as white goods, and have no interest in them, which is the same as with their skis.......
A few examples:
F1 car - ultra responsive, most could not drive it, so maybe a WC Salom ski.
Super car - very fast, boring doing anything else, so maybe a WC Downhill or GS ski.
4x4 - heavy and damp, so maybe a hard charger, big mountain ski, which sucks everything up.
Hot hatch - sporty, playful, responsive, good at everything, maybe the All Mountain ski. |
I stopped reading that 'basic ski hire' thread after about three pages 😂
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You know it makes sense.
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I think it's fair to say that companies like Stockli, Kastle, Volkl, Blizzard and K2 are known for making Damp and Stable skis. In the case of K2, I believe they also got a rep for being a bit unexciting in the past.
"Playful" is pretty much the opposite of damp and hard charging. This would be demonstrated if comparing Scott The Ski (forgiving, playful, adaptable and flattering), with say a Kastle FX 95HP (Damp with no speed limit and a need for technical input).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I don't think my internal feedback can be very sensitive as I just have two criteria: solid underfoot/not solid underfoot; bendable off-piste/not bendable off-piste.
As for describing wine I get lost after red or white, so I guess my tastebuds are as cloth-eared as my feet.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Any hobby is littered with these expressions, pick up any copy of what hifi, selfish biker or lonely fisherman and expressions like feel, sensitivity, pace,inert, analogue, response are all over the place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am pretty sure I'm quite sensitive on the other hand. i don't think it is necessarily positively reflected in my skiing...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Norrin Radd wrote: |
| Any hobby is littered with these expressions, pick up any copy of what hifi, selfish biker or lonely fisherman and expressions like feel, sensitivity, pace,inert, analogue, response are all over the place. |
That's because it's in the domain of Journalists...who have to try and make it an interesting read. Blandness doesn't sell magazines. It is also in the interest of these hobby mags to promote their sport/hobby and persuade folks to spend on stuff they don't really need (as it's so much better than what they are happily using). This often takes the form of OTT verbiage.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Old Fartbag, quite, if posh Henry started going on how sensitive his new skis were I would give him a wedgy, just like at school.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Norrin Radd wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, quite, if posh Henry started going on how sensitive his new skis were I would give him a wedgy, just like at school. |
That seems fair.
When I tell Lady F how sensitive I am, she gives me a wedgy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
I don't think my internal feedback can be very sensitive as I just have two criteria: solid underfoot/not solid underfoot; bendable off-piste/not bendable off-piste.
As for describing wine I get lost after red or white, so I guess my tastebuds are as cloth-eared as my feet. |
What makes it solid underfoot or not solid - it isn't width?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
I don't think my internal feedback can be very sensitive as I just have two criteria: solid underfoot/not solid underfoot; bendable off-piste/not bendable off-piste.
As for describing wine I get lost after red or white, so I guess my tastebuds are as cloth-eared as my feet. |
What makes it solid underfoot or not solid - it isn't width? |
Don't know, probably a combination of factors such as lateral and longitudinal stiffness, construction and how it affects vibration, quality of the plate if the bindings are mounted on one. If I'm skiing on firm snow and want to go fast I want a ski which feels solid underneath me to feel confident. If the ski doesn't feel solid and is constantly giving up on me it's difficult to feel confident on it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm with rob@rar on this. The overriding sensation I get from trying a new pair of skis is whether or not they give me confidence. That probably means do they do what I expect them to do when I do stuff. So normally if I'm skiing some unfamiliar skis they don't feel good at first, but after a few hours once I've learnt what they do they might well give me more confidence than the pair I was skiing before.
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I find "hooky" vs "playful" a useful split
Neither are bad - depends what you want to use them for.
Hooky - tails lock on, loads of grip, can load up the tails at high edge angles it you need to actively release the tails. Great on hard surfaces, can catch you out by not letting go when its soft and heavy
Playful - easy to drift and flick the tails about but just not going to give you the same sort of edge hold, especially at the end of the turn
In general - tail rocker / pin tails are playful, camber / full length side cuts are hooky
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kieranm wrote: |
| I'm with rob@rar on this. The overriding sensation I get from trying a new pair of skis is whether or not they give me confidence. That probably means do they do what I expect them to do when I do stuff. So normally if I'm skiing some unfamiliar skis they don't feel good at first, but after a few hours once I've learnt what they do they might well give me more confidence than the pair I was skiing before. |
I think this is part of why descriptions and ultimately consensus viewpoints are helpful. If you are too binary "like/don't like" then what you are really reviewing is your skiing style, level of technique and various other personal attributes like weight and limb length.
If you start from the premise that no skis are bad then the best reviewers should look to find out who they should suit and use enough flexibility in their style to work out whether they do perform in that window. Of course even then some things need to be taken on trust - I need to ski the longest available length in any ski to really appreciate how it skis for others they may be caught between sizes and choosing the "wrong" size up or down may not present the ski in the best light. I demoed a Cochise in a 185ish length for about a week last year and thought it was a dependable all rounder and fairly mild in personality though by no means a noodle but others think it is at the challenging end of the spectrum - to get anywhere near that I'd have needed the biggest size.
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FAQ
