 Poster: A snowHead
|
My girlfriend and I have never been skiing before nor have we seen snow. We are aware that most resorts have artificial snow machines that are really good but would love to see real snow at the resort we go to in Austria in December this year. We were thinking of going to Zell Am See as it fits our criteria but we are not sure if there will be snow in December (If anyone knows would love to know the answer to that too).
Can anyone recommend resorts in Austria that fit the criteria of being:
- Snow sure in December
- Train station (for access with our Eurail pass) in the centre of town not far from the hotels/lifts
- Good for beginners
Thanks very much in advance for any input (:[/list]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Given even the very most snow sure places in *all of the Alps*, not just Austria, were pretty much reliant on artificial snow the last three Decembers, there's no guarantee.
However aside from the last 3, IME most places have plenty of natural snow by December on the mountain, though not necessarily piled up in the village.
Adding the train station requirement gets harder and rules out some of the better options like Ischgl and Obergurgl. St Anton would tick every requirement other than good for beginners (it's actually not so bad as many make out, but still wouldn't be my first choice).
Kitzbühel maybe? I can't remember exactly where in the town the train station is.
Check out Schruns in the Silvretta-Montafon ski area. Train station right there in the village, plenty of good skiing, normally gets a lot of snow and generally opens early December. However the village is very quiet with not a lot to do other than ski, if that's important.
TBH I think Obergurgl should still be on your list. It ticks every box apart from the train station - but you could get a train to Ötztal Bahnhof then hop on a bus up the valley (which can't cost much more than a couple of €).
Likewise Ischgl with a bus from Landeck, however it's not exactly cheap.
Someone else can probably chip in with more ideas for Salzburg.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@tim432, Zell am Zee has a rail station and is good for beginners and intermediates.
Difficult to guarantee anywhere in Austria as snow sure in December. Kaprun is linked to Zell am Zee on the same area pass and has the Kitzsteinhorn glacier. Assuming that was open to skiing, when you're there in December, that would offer some natural snow.
I'm sure other snowHeads can suggest places with best chance of meeting your criteria.
I thought about St Anton, which tends to have a good snow record. I don't think it is ideal for beginners though 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Train+bus would certainly open up more options.
Obergurgl or Soelden would have been my first suggestion - the only places I've skied in November (actually that's a lie - Obertauern was also a weekend in November, with day tickets only, but I've no clue about buses from the main train line). There must be a reason the first WC ski round of the season is held in Soelden in October.
Lech - skied there in December, reliably. Pretty much geographically the snowiest place in the Alps, but again will need a bus or taxi from the train station.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Thanks everyone for the replies so far.
Im not sure if this information helps but we are likely to be skiing around Christmas so later in December, does that open up anymore possibilities?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@tim432, The chance of holidaying in a town that looks like a snow dusted and romantic chocolate box are very rare.
You will be fine on the piste for man-made snow (so your actual skiing is safe!) for most large areas.
If valley snow is more important than size of ski area then it maybe worth looking into the Scandinavian options.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Kitzbühel maybe? I can't remember exactly where in the town the train station is. |
Kitzbühel actually has 2 train stations - Kitzbühel main station and Kitzbühel Hahnenkamm (right by the Hahnenkamm ski slopes!). In fact many of the ski resorts in the Kitzbüheler Alpen region are served by train, including Hopfgarten, Westendorf (a short distance from town, you need a short bus or taxi ride to the town centre), Brixen im Thale, Kirchberg (which shares its skiing with Kitzbühel and can be a slightly cheaper alternative), Kitzbühel, St. Johann im Tirol and Fieberbrunn.
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Someone else can probably chip in with more ideas for Salzburg. |
From Salzburg then several of the Ski Amade region resorts are accessible by train e.g St Johann im Pongau/Alpendorf, Radstadt and Schladming.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Are you limited to Austria? Saas Fee in CH will have real snow at the top which is accessible by cable car. Very good beginners area. It's easily reachable by train from Geneva or Zurich to Visp and adding a 40 min post bus ride from there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Austria is preferable as we are doing a trip around Europe and are going from Vienna to Venice with a skiing stop somewhere in Austria hopefully. Given we are travelling by train going to CH will add a lot of time on the train that we do not wish to spend as it is out of the way
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tim432, Ahhh.... well now I can be of assistance afterall (maybe/kinda).
There are 2 routes from Vienna you could pop into the Ski Amadé region via Schladming/Radstadt. Then from Radstadt there are regular services down to Graz and then onto Italy. Or... the Gasteins will also be an option as they have train service to he south too.
Again, think about whether snow in the village is crucial or not.
Obertauern (via Radstadt) may be a bit snowy by then, and Sport Gastein (but this is not a village).
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
No resorts in Austria have 'train stations'....
but plenty have railway stations!
I think the best bet in December might be Solden or Obergurgl via Otztal railway station, then onwards to resort by post bus or taxi.
Or the Stubai valley/glacier via tram from Innsbruck railway station.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@LOTA, sorry, i didn't realise we were writing for the benefit of readers from 1894. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Global warming has killed your dream, son.
You're about 20 years too late.
If you want a chocbox village with deep snow, the likeliest window is between mid-Jan and mid-Feb.
Not December.
The best train-to-village experience in Western Europe is in Switzerland.
Swiss trains are cr*p and slow, but they carry romance and good views.
The best ones, in order, are:
Murren / Wengen / Lauterbrunnen;
Zermatt / Gornergrat;
St Moritz / Bernina.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Wow I didnt realise how bad global warming had affected the start of the ski season..
@nobsoc Going in late January might not be a possibility because we are fitting in 12 different countries over 42 days and we are seeing things in order based on the countries that are next to it in a logical route.
It seems as though we might have to rely on snow machines for skiing and keep our fingers crossed that some snow happens to occur while we are there. In that case can anyone recommend any ski resorts that meet our criteria for the original post that have good snow machines. or will pretty much every ski resort have good snow machines? (if thats the case we may well just stick with our initial idea of going to Zell Am See.
@LOTA - Thanks for the heads up about the term being railway stations not train stations, will keep that in mind so as not to sound as silly in the future.
Thanks everyone for the replies so far this is all helping a ski noob very much C:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Train from "somewhere in Austria" to Jenbach. Change to single guage railway up the Zillertal. Base in Mayerhofn with short bus ride to Hintertux Glacier. if all else fails there will be snow at the end for sure!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
First bit of advice - don't start multiple threads about essentially the same thing!
A couple of questions not specific to your question but related in a way:
1) Are you intending to do any lessons beforehand or take lessons when you get there? I ask because you will need some sort of tuition before you venture out on the slopes under your own steam. And if you aren't doing that here you will have to work into your trip/plan.
2) Where the hell do you live that you have never seen snow!!?
I think what you are trying do is a really cool idea - working a ski trip into a Eurail joint.
As others have said recent years have proved "challenging" in regards of real snow in December. But everything goes in cycles right so hopefully next year will be more like it used to be.
I've never been Zell but I quite fancy it and if it you've already got a feeling for it I'd be tempted to stick with it. As a beginner the snow conditions are going to be less critical and even when not snow covered Zell seems to be a beautiful place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Layne - My bad im a noob at all this forum stuff and wasnt sure if i should reignite an old thread or start a new one a week later with slightly different question
1. Yes we are planning on doing 5 days of lessons during our 6 day days of skiing. Is 5 days of lessons too much? In my research ive seen a few ski schools that will offer 3 days of lessons and then if you decide you want to do extra days you pay something like 20 euro for each additional day.(We will be there for 8 days but first and last day is arrival/departing). On a similar vein as this question I have seen there are usually varied ski hire prices depending on the quality of the equipment. Is it worth getting the cheapest ski equipment hire given we are beginners or would it be better to hire the a middle or upper tier of ski equipment?
2. Perth, Western Australia. It is very hot here. I think there was snow once a few years ago but it was about an 8 hour drive from the city in the middle of no where and was more like scarce pieces hail scatter on top of a hill in a few hundred metre radius. It made the news lol.
Thanks as soon we saw the picturesque lake and meeting all of our criteria it really made it stand out to my girlfriend and I, versus all the other ski resorts which looked fairly similar. In my research though I read somewhere that the snow machines at Zell Am See might not be the best... If anyone could comment on that it would be much appreciated.
I feel like Im asking too many questions so thanks again for everyone and their help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
If you want a chocbox village with deep snow, the likeliest window is between mid-Jan and mid-Feb. Not December.
|
I'd say it's even later than that, to be honest. I remember reading somewhere that in the last twenty years the maximum snow depth is reached in early March at 1500m and mid April at 2000m (in the Swiss Alps, anyway).
I know there is a huge amount of inertia regarding tradition, habits of guests, availability of seasonal workers etc., but at some point the resorts are going to have to adapt their season dates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| tim432 wrote: |
| @Layne - My bad im a noob at all this forum stuff and wasnt sure if i should reignite an old thread or start a new one a week later with slightly different question |
Whenever a thread is updated it goes back to the top of the pile so it'll get seen. You can also edit the title if needs be. No big sweat it just tends to get peoples backs up if they've contributed to the first thread because it feels like they have been ignored or having to repeat themselves. All cool though, like you say, you're new
| tim432 wrote: |
| 1. Yes we are planning on doing 5 days of lessons during our 6 day days of skiing. Is 5 days of lessons too much? In my research ive seen a few ski schools that will offer 3 days of lessons and then if you decide you want to do extra days you pay something like 20 euro for each additional day.(We will be there for 8 days but first and last day is arrival/departing). |
Depends really. After 3 days you'll be competent enough to do your own thing if that's what you'd rather do. 5 days (half days presumably) isn't too much. If you get a good instructor they'll be pushing you hard and getting you around the circuit plenty. And if it isn't like that then complain and get them to move you to a different class/instructor.
| tim432 wrote: |
| On a similar vein as this question I have seen there are usually varied ski hire prices depending on the quality of the equipment. Is it worth getting the cheapest ski equipment hire given we are beginners or would it be better to hire the a middle or upper tier of ski equipment? |
Basic stuff should be fine. As with the lessons, if you are having any problems with your gear, even if it's just it doesn't feel great, take it in and swap it.
| tim432 wrote: |
| Thanks as soon we saw the picturesque lake and meeting all of our criteria it really made it stand out to my girlfriend and I, versus all the other ski resorts which looked fairly similar. |
Tricky one that, beauty is in the eye of the beholder a little bit. And when it comes to skiing criteria differs. That all said Zell should work for you.
| tim432 wrote: |
| I feel like Im asking too many questions so thanks again for everyone and their help! |
Not at all, keep firing away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tim432, Zell am See ticks the most boxes although I can't add much to what the others have said about snow. If you want chocolate box pretty i.e. how its looks now thats possible but not certain. If you had asked this in January 2013 most folks would have been more confident but the last few starts have been poor as you now realise. My tuppenceworth would be that literally no-where in the Alps is guaranteed to be chocolate box pretty so you would be best to prioritise other aspects.
https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/zellamsee/
ZamS will be a nice place to be as it is a proper town so always goings on and a Xmas market etc to add to the experience.
Yes there will be snow to ski on even if its is man made. Don't know where you read about ZamS having duff snow machines but thats tripe tbh. The mountain company there is half owned by Porsche AG and you will struggle to find a more extensively and modernly equipped resort in Austria. Theres been quite literally a major new or replacement lift every year for a long time now and full snowmaking on almost every piste.
Rent from a reputable shop such as Intersport and rent the economy skis, they are usually one up from the basic and typically the best combination of quality and value. Quite likely to be brand new skis too at the beginning of the season.
There is also the Kitzsteinhorn Glacier nearby which will have real snow no matter what. The only downside is that you will need to allow the best part of an hour from leaving a hotel in ZamS to being on the slopes up there.
As for how many days I would email the ski schools and ask for a 3 day deal with the option to extend to 5 days at the same price as booking 5 days from the outset. Its a bit cheeky but if you're there before Xmas they won't be that busy, if you are in the 'package holiday' week that includes Xmas i.e. from Sat 23/12/17 onwards then there's less chance of them agreeing. Try anyway, if you don't ask etc...
Kitzbühel\Radstadt would work too apart from the glacier access if the snow really was poor or worse than ever 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This all sounds very negative-there could well be snow at resort level around Christmas in many resorts. Certainly second the vote for Obergurgl-we were there about 4 years ago on 7th December by which time the whole place was white. In 2012/13 I recall a top start to the season and having great off piste in France in New Year week.
But then I look on the map and see Vienna is so far east from the main ski areas. Have you thought about flying to a more ski orientated base? (Zurich or Geneva for example where trains will get you closer to many resorts?).
Or you could stick the ski trip in after Venice...head up to the Dolomites or across to Milan and up into the Aosta valley-you would still have to link to a bus on all those options but could easily get to Courmayeur or Champoluc? Avoid new year week as the accommodation will be rammed and more expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
We live down the road from Schladming and without a doubt it has amazing snow making facilities. We were skiing there from November and the pistes were tip top. The main gondola is in the town centre and the train station is just at the end of town. The line also comes from Vienna. It's worth looking at that's for sure. Ange.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How about train to Mayrhofen (would require a number of transfers) and then 30 mins bus to Hintertux, there'll definitely be snow up there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
1. LOTA was absolutely right about railway station, not train station, but I wouldn't lose a second's sleep over it. Loads if people say it and have no idea that it is, technically, wrong.
2. Whitegold is a grumpy old fart, so you can ignore all his comments.
3. Obergurgl is an excellent suggestion and DID have natural snow this December.
4. While Christmas in the Alps always sounds an idyllic suggestion, it really isn't the best time to go. Days are short, snow can be in short supply, pistes can be very crowded etc. The ideal time for beginners IMO is late March, but I appreciate you probably can't do that. Just go as late as you possibly can.
Re: railway station. Just to be sure you understand..... As a general rule, the prettiest villages and those with railway stations are the traditional ones (not purpose built) and in consequence will be much lower than the purpose built ones. Therefore they are less likely to have natural snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
My family have skied in Zell am See in December for the last 5 years. We stay a short walk from the railway station, there's loads of different types of accommodation to choose from! This year I got away, for a few days skiing in ZaS mid November (working in Muenchen) 
The family love Early to mid December because there's few people on the slopes and they open as much of the resort as the conditions allow. The snow making ensures that there is good quality pistes. The Porsche family trust bankroll the lift company that they control. It is like having a benevolent Godfather over the town. They are improving the Ariet 1 lift this summer 2017 and the following summer 2018 completing the link to Saalbach/Glemm/Leogang valley.
The 30 minute bus ride from the ZaS rail station to the Kitzsteinhorn Glacier (Kaprun) is always possible. However one of our group always rents a car so we squeeze in and have at least one day up there. The glacier is good from November to May each year and there's some fantastic new lifts up there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
