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Snow chains or winter tyres

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all, im aware this question has probably been asked more times than i can count to but i need to expertise and help, im driving to flaine the end of march and i have a 4 wheel drive suv, now i was hoping to fit my car with winter tyres to save messing about with chains, now ive been told snow chains are compulsary in france regardless of your tyres and someone else told me you do not require chains if you have winter tyres,i just done wanna waste £400 on winter tyres if im still going to need chains.......help me please x thanks digger
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Chains are compulsory in France when the snow chains compulsory sign is showing on the road/route you are on.
Is your car due new tyres? Yes - pay the extra buy snow tyres. (Still need chains in the vehicle)
Is your car due new tyres? No - buy chains. (you need them anyway.)

Hope that helps ....
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's quite possible that you'll not "need" chains at that time of year.

BUT, at that time of year also the roads marked with the French chain sign carry a legal requirement for you to be equipped when travelling along them with chains (or other approved devices) in order that you can deploy them if needed. That would make you legal and give you the means to travel safely.

It's also possible that you can fit tyres that are usable all year round that would give you a decent solution without having to have two sets of tyres.

You don't say what vehicle it is or the complete tyre size descriptor, if you want to post those it may be easier to get specific advice.
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Yes thanks for putting that to bed, no my car isnt due tyres but i would've invested in some to save hassle with chains but Will now buy chains, thanks
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Its a mercedes R class 4x4, Tyre size 255/55/18
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FWIW with a 4x4 with good winter tyres I've never needed to put chains on. Despite driving over a 1800m pass in the snowiest part of the Alps twice a week all winter whatever the weather (and seeing plenty stop to put chains on).

Whatever their legality, chains are a pretty poor substitute for winter tyres. They're a hassle to put on, and no help on black ice or a few cm of slush on tarmac etc.

I'd buy the winter tyres and get a cheap pair of chains to keep in the boot safe in the knowledge that you'll 99.999999999% never need to grovel about on the ground putting them on.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@diggerdave, Lidl have chains in stock now, http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=129583&highlight=
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@boredsurfin, I don't think it is every lidl actually. Certainly none in ours Sad (North Wales)
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@clarky999, thanks for your advice,my tyres are pretty new to be honest and there a good dunlop, so might just opt for the chains in the back and hope i dont need them,not going till the 24 march so hopefully all the nasty weather may have passed
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@boredsurfin, i'll try my local aldi when passing if not just seen polar ones on ebay for £100 for a set of 4 which isnt bad considering my vehicle has quite large tyres
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
clarky999 wrote:
FWIW with a 4x4 with good winter tyres I've never needed to put chains on. Despite driving over a 1800m pass in the snowiest part of the Alps twice a week all winter whatever the weather (and seeing plenty stop to put chains on).

Whatever their legality, chains are a pretty poor substitute for winter tyres. They're a hassle to put on, and no help on black ice or a few cm of slush on tarmac etc.

I'd buy the winter tyres and get a cheap pair of chains to keep in the boot safe in the knowledge that you'll 99.999999999% never need to grovel about on the ground putting them on.


+1
I saw an idiot on a way from Chamonix to Geneva yesterday with chains on speeding at 90-100 km/h on a wet road without snow .... that is f...ing dangerious in case he nneded to brake or parts of it breaking off and possibly cutting braking fluid supply or other vital pieces - If chain pieces came off and tangling arround on a moving wheel at high speed close to brakes ... tried to show the guy to stop but communication while driving at this speed is not easy ...


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 17-01-17 10:16; edited 2 times in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
diggerdave wrote:
@clarky999, thanks for your advice,my tyres are pretty new to be honest and there a good dunlop, so might just opt for the chains in the back and hope i dont need them,not going till the 24 march so hopefully all the nasty weather may have passed


So you go for a ski holidays and expect no snow? Why?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@mooney058, Yes, of course, snow free access with clear roads on arrival and departure, heavy snow every night, but not heavy enough to close lifts in the morning, and wall to wall sunshine everyday and beer for €3 a pint. snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@mooney058, ha ha ha, yes i meant hopefully the worse of snowing had been and gone and atleast the road may be clear for me as a first time alps driver
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
diggerdave wrote:
Its a mercedes R class 4x4, Tyre size 255/55/18


Saw a Mercedes 4x4 in a ditch today, he looked like he had summer tires:


Apparently the weight of the Merc took it into the ditch, much spinning later and it was stuck.

As for the chains question. I always have them in the boot from Nov to May. I also have good winter tires. The only thing that will get you out of a pickle are chains (and maybe a snow shovel - or a winch if you have a 4x4). That said I've not put chains on since 2003 but I've also not "had" to get somewhere since 2003 - generally if winter tires won't cope I don't bother going as I hate driving with chains.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
4x4 might be usefull for acceleration, but no added benefit when braking ... Personally I am more concerned with my cars ability to stop when it needed than an extra ability to move from a standstill (although it was usefull yesterday in Chamonix when an outside parking was full of 4x4 on summer tyres that could not move safetly, so I just whizzed from there asap without chains on my winter tyres).

Worst of snow? You only need a tiny bit to lose a grip. Chains are only usefull in deep snow and only at slow speeds. So if you are expecting little snow - winter tyres is the right answer.

I too drive an 4x4 but with winter tyres I never needed snow chains. IME even in severe winter conditions FR police were letting cars up the hill on chains or 4x4 with winter tyres without chains.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 17-01-17 10:19; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'd get the winter tyres and chains for Flaine. The winter tyres will be of benefit for the whole journey from the UK as they perform better in rain at low temps too. If you are not familiar with the drive to Flaine the road goes to a higher level than 1600 and then descends to the resort.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Absolutely winter tyres first, then chains for peace of mind or an icy drive out of your apartment etc. See the parallel thread at http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=56676#2995013 especially the masterful summary of the various options, on the second page. What I wrote, as it happened Madeye-Smiley And remember that when your winters are on your summers are in the garage, so their calendar lifetime is extended.

One thought re a spare tyre: I didn't used to get a 5th spare, but changed my mind when two people I know said they'd had trouble getting a replacement in Jan/Feb when abroad, because by that time, the stock of winters is running low (they're manufactured ahead of the big autumn demand and that's it until the next year). One of these had to wait around for two days en route in France for a replacement in the right size and even then it was another brand (so he ended-up with three of one brans and one of another, which may or may not be an issue). I just got a new set for my new car and ordered a 5th as a spare, which I'll then rotate over the next couple of switch-overs. Fine, of course, if you are OK with the cost and have the space to carry it, but I can understand if you don't feel it's not worth it for the low probability of getting a flat. although when I ordered mine, it turned out to be the last one in stock in our area.
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IME experience FR police may let you proceed with winter tyres but you take the risk of being asked to fit snow chains anyhow by them so you might as well be prepared.
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@diggerdave, Winter tyres as a must have if going to the Alps and chains as back up, and know how to fit them. Contrary to the above I have used them a few times, last time only 3 days ago getting out of Bregenzerwald on Saturday would have been no fun without the chains for the first 20-25k. It takes less than 10 mins to fit chains if you know what you are doing, secret is to buy decent self tensioning ones like Weissenfels Clack and Go not cheap imo, those ARE a pita. I've seen loads of people sat at the roadside with the instructions out and freezing in driving snow, no fun - be prepared to use them not just have them is my advice.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 16-01-17 8:45; edited 1 time in total
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I believe that most of the time there's an exemption from chains for 4wd with winter tyres. My car is not supposed to have chains fitted and there is some confusion over whether they go front or rear if you absolutely must fit them.

Anyway in 10 winters with ski station driving most weekends I've never had a problem and never fitted chains...
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Chains and winter tyres are not mutually exclusive, get both. Anyone driving in the Alps on summer tyres is looking for trouble. I know lots of people will say I do it every year for 50 years without problems but in my mind it is in no way different to driving a car with faulty brakes and steering.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
We flew up to resort last week in heavy snow on hairpins, with 4x4 and winters, laughing at the hundreds struggling with chains; the French are generally as badly prepared for bad weather as we are, and it's incredible how many cars you see driving on bare tarmac at speed, miles from snow. I still carry chains though. Decending is generally more difficult due to momentum.
Winter tyres are not expensive, useful in the UK, your summers last nearly twice as long, and your life may be saved; just for a fraction of what you have spent on your holiday
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Oh and there are winter tyres and winter tyres. We now have Michelin which are significantly better than the prior Bridgestones.
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For a single trip where you are driving to and from resort only I don't think it's worth the expense of winter tyres. I've driven both RWD and FWD cars in snow using chains on driven wheels without issue albeit very slowly. With FWD the chains are assisting the steering as well and the chains hold you back when descending. Not comfortable but, in my experience, they work. If you are driving more extensively then, yes, winter tyres would be worth it.
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Both my car and my wifes have winter tyres fitted here in UK and driving to the Alps is just an extension to normal driving. If a person wants to drive to the Alps and see it as an expense rather than a sensible safety addition that that is their choice, for me I don't want to spend my journey back to the UK on the back of a transporter truck, or worse. The Germans, Swiss and Austrians have a mandatory position that winter M&S marked winter tyres are fitted form first snow until Easter (I'd personally like to see that extended to Holland, Belgium, UK and France but I cant ever see that happening, too liberal when it6 comes to matters of road safety imo).

I don't drive to the French Alps in winter anymore largely because of the nonsense on the French roads after Lyon and getting into/ out of Tarentaise valley, been stuck behind too many bambis to make it worth my time being stuck in Moutiers etc.

I drove through Holland after we left the Hull/ Rotterdam ferry on Saturday 7th January, the roads were sheet ice and freezing fog -8C in Holland, must have seen at least 10 Dutch cars on the verges and central barriers over a 60/70 mile stretch to the German border, once in Germany never saw one, same conditions - both sets of drivers on similar roads, similar driving speeds......any connection regards winter tyres? Came back on Saturday 14th snow and ice all the way through Germany -8/12C all the way up the Rhine and never saw an accident, as soon as we went into Holland saw at least 5 accidents an it was warmer at -2/3C, blue lights all over the place......strange coincidence..... Or just not using the right tools for the job?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
billb wrote:
For a single trip where you are driving to and from resort only I don't think it's worth the expense of winter tyres. I've driven both RWD and FWD cars in snow using chains on driven wheels without issue albeit very slowly. With FWD the chains are assisting the steering as well and the chains hold you back when descending. Not comfortable but, in my experience, they work. If you are driving more extensively then, yes, winter tyres would be worth it.


if one is doing a single trip - does is make sense having googles and ski jacket/trousers or one can use a track suit and regular gloves? When skiing slowly and carefully it would work, right?

A good ski jacket cost the same as a set of good 15-16-17 inch winter tyres.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@mooney058, Got it in One!
The first time you "really" need to have the correct equipment (chains and winter tyres in my case spiked and I still carry chains) will be the last. Once you have had that moment you will make sure you are prepared and remember 4wd doesn't help with braking unless you have diff locks and have them engaged.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
mooney058 wrote:


if one is doing a single trip - does is make sense having googles and ski jacket/trousers or one can use a track suit and regular gloves? When skiing slowly and carefully it would work, right?

A good ski jacket cost the same as a set of good 15-16-17 inch winter tyres.


Really? Four decent winter tyres for many cars will be more than £400. You don't need to pay anything like that for a jacket. I have a full goretex shell (Berghaus) which cost £150. Good enough for me. Don't use goggles - if it snows heavily I come in. Look, I understand the point of winter tyres. I also understand the point of 4WD but don't have that either. Plus you need somewhere to store four spare wheels. But, maybe you're right, maybe the French should make them mandatory in winter.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Chris_n, @mooney058, Agreed.....you put a price on your own safety and you are in trouble, moreover so are others around you.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
We live on a hill in a city in the 'north' of England. Our road is 12% gradient so getting home can be tricky.
2 winters ago it snowed 1-2" while we were unprepared and had to dump our RWD at the bottom of the hill.
I bought spare wheels with Conti winters on and it snowed 5-6". I made it up the hill, and the next steeper one, no issues at all.
I'd rather run RWD and winters than 4wd and summers. Smile
Chains for emergencies - but last year I had a hire car from Geneva Swiss side and it was 4wd winter tyres. They refused to issue chains, said not needed. I was sceptical, but luckily didn't need to test the law.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You could always pick up a set of part used winters: I got a nearly new set of Michelin Alpine off eBay for £180 and bought 4 new steel rims for £150 =£330 total, so winter use will lessen the wear on the summer tyres so should cover the overall cost
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@gravity-slave, rwd and winters could be much fun - I am a long term rwd fan and originally from the 'north' (real north where it snows) and used to train on frozen lakes and in forests in winter on how to do a controlled skid Smile with some experience rwd with winter tyres is safer than a fwd (no need to flame here Smile)

@billb, just checked berghaus int website - a simple rain goretex jacket is 220 EUR, skiing jacket is circa 500 EUR.
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Just bought a full set of OEM alloy rims and Falken winter tyres off mytyres for £680 for my SUV, looks like good value in my book. Used them over Xmas/ NY and they are the business to/ from Austria.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Just a little sanity check. A set of tyres for a Mercedes R class is not that cheap. You will probably pay around £640 for an average set and over £1,000 for Michelin. Of course they are a good idea, but if the OP doesn't plan on driving to the Alps regularly and is equipped with a set of chains, then I'd argue that summer tyres make sense. Thousands of people do exactly this every year.
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@foxtrotzulu, in what sense is that a sanity check? Based on what?
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@foxtrotzulu, I think that's entirely reasonable.

Not everyone needs, is in a position to or wants to get a "special" set of tyres for one trip. It's completely within the constraints of the prevailing laws for that destination to proceed equipped as OP has indicated, with existing setup and carry chains.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@ski3, how is it reasonable to head to mountains with summer tyres that are 255 mm wide? Chances of deep snow (where chains are usefull) are low, while some snow or black ice on a road that time of the year is quite likely. "Special" set is usefull in most of the UK for 3-5 months during a year.
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@mooney058, when I've been there in March, plenty of cars of any nationality are doing just that.
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@ski3, if you are local and can judge the conditions on a day - maybe yes. Driving hundreds of miles and hoping that it will be OK - reasonable? Weather in mountains can change very fast. Yes end of March is not the coldest season, but is it not reasonable to expect snow in mountains end of March?
If somebody is doing the wrong thing - good reason to follow it? People say that drink and drive is a no no - many still do, is that a good reason to do it as well?
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