 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All
Okay you can shoot me now for thinking a year ahead but my other half and I have decided we need to do something different for Christmas 2017 and would like to go skiing. We have skied St Anton, Soll, Lech, Morzine, Avoriaz, Borovets and this year heading to Ischgl
We do tend to prefer Austria over France but would like ideas from people who have skied over xmas / new year before
Can we ski on Christmas eve / christmas day?
Would a hotel be better over self catering?
Where is near enough snow sure?
Transfer time ideally less than 2 hours
I can ski reds other half blacks and we ski not board
I did a bit of research and it seems Tignes, Val D'isere, Val Thorens, Solden are good but I'm sure there are other places
Help any suggestions?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You can either head somewhere high for peace of mind. Or you can head to somewhere with good snow making. We've done the latter over Christmas - Saalbach was good this year, Ski Amade (we stayed in Wagrain) was good the year before even though there was very limited natural snow both Christmases.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can't imagine anywhere closed on Christmas day.
Why would a hotel be better unless you don't want to cook? Also you may find that hotels do Xmas on the 24th not the 25th.
Nowhere is 100% snow sure. But based on the last few years either somewhere with robust snowmaking or "high" probably sensible. Monterosa for instance has both. Espace Killy or Val Thorens also a good bet.
But Xmas really shouldn't be viewed as a ski holiday, but as a holiday...
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I appreciate that people have been to the Alps over the last couple of weeks and had fun, but you have to admire @tonsky81's optimism after so many dire years of Christmas snow. @tonsky81, Is Christmas the only time you can go? Can't you wait a week or three to increase your chances of decent snow?
Assuming you are adamant about Austria, then maybe Obergurgl? It's high, plenty of good hotels and as likely toi be snow sure as almost anywhere. From what little I've seen of Solden, you have a good chance of snow up above, but limited chance of snow in what I thought was an exceptionally ugly town with a main road running through the midle of it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I appreciate that people have been to the Alps over the last couple of weeks and had fun, but you have to admire @tonsky81's optimism after so many dire years of Christmas snow... |
The last four years have been very disappointing for many, although not all places in Europe. However, the four years before that offered excellent conditions in many places. I suppose it depends on whether you think that last four years is the new normal as a result of climate change, an unlucky period of consecutive poor starts, or an aberration from the usual decent start to the season. I suppose it also depends on what you are looking for in a ski trip at Christmas, which is probably as varied as the weather.
My advice would be to choose a high, large resort in whatever country you decide. That will give you the best chance if snow, although might come without chocolate-box-charm you might like at Christmas.
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Hotel versus self-catering is very much down to personal preference. We were in Alps last week for Xmas day and had a very nice chrimbo dinner, largely comprised of leftovers from a proper dinner we had week before, which we froze and took with us.
For us this meant we ate when we wanted and had a very relaxed afternoon and evening with kids slobbing around and eating. It works for us, but you may prefer a nice meal cooked for you.
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We've done Christmas self catering in Vaujany, we drove and took everything including the turkey! Snow was sparse but skiing was good everyday. Weve done New Year in Zell am See in a half board hotel, it was good but half board is my least favourite option. We've done Christmas in a catered chalet with ski total in St Anton, it was excellent, last year we had New Year in Tignes again catered chalet it was excellent. I like being away Christmas and/or New Year and I personally like catered chalets, self catering was good when the children were younger as we took presents etc, I too favour Austria, all down to personal preferences 
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My mates family have spent last 2 Xmases at a low Austrian resort - Rauris, small family resort, that had virtually no snow, but good cannon coverage.
They learnt to ski last year and had just had a great holiday this year skiing every day and had a small sprinkling of powder one day as a bonus.
So you don't have to go large and high to have fun, as long as you are Ok with repeating lots of runs.
I've been watching web cams in Zell am See as heading there again in Feb. Its been 90% open over the holiday thanks to cannons. It's chocolate box and lake pretty, has a glacier at Kaprun to guarantee real snow and good cannon coverage at Schmitten and a reasonable large if not massive number of Kms to ski. As long as you are comfortable on reds then it has a lot of good skiing. I wouldn't recommend it if only comfy on blues though as a number of connecting runs between the different parts are reds. Couple of super blacks down to the village too for your OH.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you have the choice I really wouldn't bother. We have been in EK over Xmas/New Year, but only because my OH's office is closed and we are fortunate enough to have our own place, so it costs us very little in addition to be here. As others have said EK is more reliable snow-wise than most, but it is busy and expensive - think half-term without the snow reliability. Despite our circumstances, we are thinking of not bothering to come out next Xmas and sacrificing a bit of quantity for quality. The only positive thing I would say is that if you ski off-piste and the conditions happen to be good then it may be quieter off-piste than at other times. Our observations are that those skiing are predominantly family groups and in general less proficient and less aware than at other times of the year.
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@rob@rar, With regard to your question of whether one regards recent snowless Christmasses as the new norm, I think the question is simpler than that. Looking at the last 8 years, 50% have suffered from poor snow at Christmas. Whether the most recent years have been normal or not, I'm simply not prepared to expend huge amounts of my limited holiday budget on a 50:50 bet unless I have no choice.
Look at it another way, would you continually return to a summer holiday hotel in the sun if the pool was unusable due to algae for four out of the last eight years? Or how about a week in the Caribbean during the hurricane season? Four out of eight years your week has been impacted by actually getting hit by a hurricane, but the other four have been great. The only snag is that you are also being charged high season prices for low-season weather.
I understand that skiing at Christmas makes sense for some (reduced holiday time take, avoid the in-laws etc.), but I struggle to see how it makes much sense otherwise. Of course, if you do get lashings of fresh snow in a picture postcard village it will be fab, but unless you have your own chalet/unlimited funds/unlimited holiday, then surely Christmas skiing is a triumph of optimism over reality?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks all I think I have certainly split the pack on opinions
We will ski in Feb as well we just wanted to escape the family and friends norm in the U.K. And as we both ski thought it would be something different to try for Xmas and new year
I'll check all the recommendations thank you and we were thinking chalet so we don't have to cook
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have skiied 3 out of the last 4 Christmas/pre-Christmas week. Dec 16 in Obergurgl, Dec 15 & Dec 13 in Obertauern.
All 3 times, there was enough snow to ski (some man-made stuff) although not all runs were open.
The most recent trip, pre-Christmas week at Obergurgl, the snow was in surprisingly decent condition (we were expecting the worst) and we all had a good time. There was quite a bit of the man-made stuff, especially at the lower part of the mountain. Although hard-packed, it was actually very skiiable with only a few icy patches on a small number of runs. If you really want to ski at Christmas, I would suggest book somewhere high with good snow-making facilities. And we heard from from our ski instructor (who is from Solden) that Solden's snow was very poor and so we didn't bother to go over there.
Transfers for both resorts are less than 2 hours. Obergurgl from Innsbruck and Obertauern from Salzburg.
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I should add that if you fancy a get away from the norm Christmas then go for it, we've loved our Christmas ski trips away from the usual pressures!
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You know it makes sense.
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@tonsky81, Whilst not impossible to find catered chalets in Austria aren't too common. So it is usually a choice of apartment or hotel. We've done both in recent years. Can't say we have a preference. One thing I've found is that celebrations tend to be fairly low key compared to being at home.
If you go Christmas you will find that the days before Christmas will be very quiet, but Boxing Day onwards becomes busy. This year we left on 27th, last year we left on Boxing Day so we had slopes to ourselves most days!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Looking at the last 8 years, 50% have suffered from poor snow at Christmas. |
Ah, the classic "glass half full or half empty" question!
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Whether the most recent years have been normal or not, I'm simply not prepared to expend huge amounts of my limited holiday budget on a 50:50 bet unless I have no choice. |
Yes, I agree with you. If you get one week skiing each winter and your overriding priority is to get the best chance of decent snow then Christmas week is not the right choice. But there are plenty of reasons why skiing at Christmas is a sensible choice: you might be restricted to school holidays, you might have limited time off work and want to use the bank holidays, you might have annual leave that you need to take before you lose it at the end of the year, you might want an excuse to avoid the extended family without offending them by your refusal to visit during the holidays, you might like the notion of Christmas in the mountains, you might like skiing early in the season, etc, etc. For all those reasons and more, skiing at Christmas can be very lovely. Even when the snow is poor there will almost certainly be skiing to be had if you choose your resort carefully, and if the snow gods smile on you it can be awesome 
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Look at it another way, would you continually return to a summer holiday hotel in the sun if the pool was unusable due to algae for four out of the last eight years? |
I don't think that's a valid analogy if you choose your resort carefully. I've skied for 15+ years at Christmas and always been able to ski, even in the very poor years.
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| ... then surely Christmas skiing is a triumph of optimism over reality? |
I don't know, you decide:
22 December 2000
26 December 2001
23 December 2002
26 December 2004
29 December 2005
23 December 2006
25 December 2007
17 December 2008
30 December 2009
23 December 2010
26 December 2011
20 December 2012
19 December 2013
26 December 2014
20 December 2015
28 December 2016
Apologies if this post has turned in to a bit of a personal photo album, but the point that I am trying to make that even in the poor snow years Christmas week offers plenty of skiing in many resorts, especially high resorts with good snow-making. For lots and lots of skiers, relatively poor on-piste conditions (and absent off-piste conditions) are more than compensated for by blue sky and the opportunity to sit on the restaurant terrace for drinks and lunch provided they can cruise around on a sufficient number of blues and reds.
All these photos were taken in Les Arcs except for the first three photos which were in Courchevel. I think the dates are accurate, although some of the early ones might be inaccurate due to my first couple of digital cameras not tacking dates, so apologies if that's the case.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wow those pictures are ace thank you I hadn't thought of les arcs will give it a look
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Great photos!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've always liked Les Arcs (first place I ever stood on skis) interesting seeing the successive photos there. Nearest I've been there to Christmas is first week of Jan, which was good.
As others have said for Christmas, high places include Val Thoren which I've been to week preceeding Christmas. I'd also add Cervinia in Italy as it's altitude matches the two above and seems to have a good snow record for this time of year.
Slightly left field, Sierra Nevada in Spain can also get good conditions early. Easy flights to Malaga with hire car to get there. One of the attractions if snow is poor would then be to visit Granada city with places like the Alhambra palace, a stunning place to see and usually uncrowded in winter. Saying that, Malaga itself has a superb cathedral and also birthplace of Picasso in the city. So perhaps a little different focus if faced with little skiing that would give you a very different outlook for Christmas.
Worth considering something interesting to do as you say.
Failing all that, I'd go to Portugal and stay in the Hotel de Lagos is the centre of Lagos for a charismatic break. I know there's no skiing but great area to visit and again all the nicer in winter without the summer crowds. Well worth it.
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@tonsky81, and others who have commented - - here's my pennyworth.
Mrs TT and I have just enjoyed our 11th consecutive Christmas in Saalbach. I can't now imagine being stuck at home in the drizzly, chilly UK. In most years (i.e. the first eight), we've been blessed with good skiing and sunny weather. Sometimes it's been superb, with perfect, uncrowded pistes. Although for the last three Christmases (which, rightly or wrongly, I still regard as untypical or aberrant), the resort has been heavily reliant on man-made snow, the heavy investment in snow-making technology over the past decade has really paid off, and we've always been able to ski. Since we arrived on 10th December this year, we've had at least 150km of piste to go at, with long itineraries possible around the ski circus, and main runs down to the village all open. Our Christmas week guests commented that it had been their best skiing holiday ever. (Only the day before yesterday, snowhead 'stanton' posted on another thread a Skiline report from 30/12/16 (http://www.skiline.cc/skiing_day/95becj2q6kl), showing that he'd completed a downhill distance of 122km that day - and this is supposed to be a 'bad year').
FWIW our friends, family and guests who visit at Christmas are generally looking for the romantic ideal of a pretty 'Christmassy' village, surrounded by snowy scenery, with a Christmas market, brass band playing 'Silent Night' in the village square, carol service in the little, onion-domed church, horse-drawn sleigh-rides, etc. etc. (as well as a bit of skiing). We've even seen a few English people pottering about with their kids this week, and who apparently came with no intention of skiing! Of course there are others who just want to ski and find that Christmas is a time when they can get away from work without using up many days of their annual leave allowance. There are also of course many families who prefer to take a skiing holiday at Christmas than at half term or Easter.
To address your following questions:
Can we ski on Christmas eve / christmas day?
Yes, of course. The ski industry is regarded as vital and will be doing good business over the holiday period, and Christmas Eve/Day are no exception. Skiing on Christmas Day is always a particular pleasure (although we generally return early to cook the turkey and open presents).
Would a hotel be better over self catering?
Depends on individual preference and circumstances, as well as budget. A hotel package will often include a 'gala Christmas dinner' on Christmas Eve, and 'Wellness' facilities. On the other hand, well chosen apartment accommodation may provide a home from home with games and UK channels on the TV. Also the money saved can be spend on some very festive evenings out, provided that there are plenty of decent, reasonably-priced restaurants, bars, etc.
Where is near enough snow sure?
Heed the recommendations of others who have experienced Christmases in ski resorts. Don't focus on height alone. Take account of the lower snowline as you go further east. Choose a resort that has acquired a good reputation for being able to cope with poor early seasons through investment in snow-making infrastructure. Go high enough but not at the expense of prettiness and 'Christmassy' village atmosphere (if those things are important to you)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I appreciate that people have been to the Alps over the last couple of weeks and had fun, but you have to admire @tonsky81's optimism after so many dire years of Christmas snow. |
TBH, agreed! Despite the last three years having no bearing on next, if I was planning to ski next Christmas I wouldn't book anything other time off (and possibly flights) before start of Dec at which point you should have some idea of how the season is shaping up.
If you can't do that, choices should include:
- Dolomites, as they don't seem to need any natural snow at all for extensive piste skiing
- Ischgl - cold, snowy, north-facing, high, lots of snow cannons
- Obergurgl - as above but higher (though maybe slightly less snowy and more NW-facing)
- Val Thorens - as above but even higher
- Resorts with a glacier - Mayrhofen/Zillertal, Tignes, Zermatt, Sölden, Saas Fe, L2A, etc
- Saalbach and Schladming as they always seem to be cold and have snow (plus lots of cannons, and being on meadows they don't need much)
Christmas will be celebrated on 24th. Everywhere will be open with skiing as normal. If you self cater and don't want to cook you'll def need to reserve a table; obviously in a hotel meals will be as normal (but possibly a special meal).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@foxtrotzulu, have you been skiing over Christmas over the last few years, or is your opinion all a result of looking at too many webcams from your armchair? Fine if it's the former, but the latter are doing a lot of harm to the ski industry when actually conditions aren't that ropey IMO
Went to La Tania last year, conditions weren't fantastic but I spent a week skiing in the sun. At Ski Amade this week and have had just had two great days in the sun on tidy pistes, with a bit of off piste and the tiniest of fresh tracks. Sure it's mostly artificial snow on the piste, but I've got more of a smile on my face than I was at home scratching myself.
I guess it depends on how you view a Christmas/New Year trip, for me it's a time that I'm off work anyway so a good chance to get another week of skiing in, if it's the only week you're doing then possibly I'd look for something else. But as the OP specifically said that they wanted to be away at Christmas I don't see why you'd want to discourage them.
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| feefee wrote: |
| I should add that if you fancy a get away from the norm Christmas then go for it, we've loved our Christmas ski trips away from the usual pressures! |
thanks ever so much its something out of the norm we are after
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| Tatman's Tours wrote: |
@tonsky81, and others who have commented - - here's my pennyworth.
Mrs TT and I have just enjoyed our 11th consecutive Christmas in Saalbach. I can't now imagine being stuck at home in the drizzly, chilly UK. In most years (i.e. the first eight), we've been blessed with good skiing and sunny weather. Sometimes it's been superb, with perfect, uncrowded pistes. Although for the last three Christmases (which, rightly or wrongly, I still regard as untypical or aberrant), the resort has been heavily reliant on man-made snow, the heavy investment in snow-making technology over the past decade has really paid off, and we've always been able to ski. Since we arrived on 10th December this year, we've had at least 150km of piste to go at, with long itineraries possible around the ski circus, and main runs down to the village all open. Our Christmas week guests commented that it had been their best skiing holiday ever. (Only the day before yesterday, snowhead 'stanton' posted on another thread a Skiline report from 30/12/16 (http://www.skiline.cc/skiing_day/95becj2q6kl), showing that he'd completed a downhill distance of 122km that day - and this is supposed to be a 'bad year').
FWIW our friends, family and guests who visit at Christmas are generally looking for the romantic ideal of a pretty 'Christmassy' village, surrounded by snowy scenery, with a Christmas market, brass band playing 'Silent Night' in the village square, carol service in the little, onion-domed church, horse-drawn sleigh-rides, etc. etc. (as well as a bit of skiing). We've even seen a few English people pottering about with their kids this week, and who apparently came with no intention of skiing! Of course there are others who just want to ski and find that Christmas is a time when they can get away from work without using up many days of their annual leave allowance. There are also of course many families who prefer to take a skiing holiday at Christmas than at half term or Easter.
To address your following questions:
Can we ski on Christmas eve / christmas day?
Yes, of course. The ski industry is regarded as vital and will be doing good business over the holiday period, and Christmas Eve/Day are no exception. Skiing on Christmas Day is always a particular pleasure (although we generally return early to cook the turkey and open presents).
Would a hotel be better over self catering?
Depends on individual preference and circumstances, as well as budget. A hotel package will often include a 'gala Christmas dinner' on Christmas Eve, and 'Wellness' facilities. On the other hand, well chosen apartment accommodation may provide a home from home with games and UK channels on the TV. Also the money saved can be spend on some very festive evenings out, provided that there are plenty of decent, reasonably-priced restaurants, bars, etc.
Where is near enough snow sure?
Heed the recommendations of others who have experienced Christmases in ski resorts. Don't focus on height alone. Take account of the lower snowline as you go further east. Choose a resort that has acquired a good reputation for being able to cope with poor early seasons through investment in snow-making infrastructure. Go high enough but not at the expense of prettiness and 'Christmassy' village atmosphere (if those things are important to you) |
thank you ever so much this has been really helpful
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd like to add that Skiing at Christmas does have a different clientele. Instead of people obsessed with doing every piste and miles and miles of skiing, you get local families skiing together, chatting, socialising, taking life slowly and relaxing. Its quite nice if you embrace this approach.
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We did Christmas in Saalbach two years ago. Lots of runs were closed, which was disappointing, but the resort do a fantastic job in getting pistes open and we still managed to ski. We did a day in Kaprun too. Saalbach is magical at Christmas time and I think Hinterglemm is even prettier.
This year though we went to Barcelona, which was also awesome!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've just booked my flights for next Christmas. This will make about 8 in a row. Yes the last 3 haven't been great conditions, but any skiing is better than none. As TT says, anything beats a drizzly, windy, depressing time in the gloomy South West of England.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you have any sense and you want to go over Christmas/New Year then wait and see... it's always possible to find a TO package (or accommodation) last minute particularly over the first of the holiday weeks. Why settle for somewhere with ok or poor snow when you could have better? Although Val Thorens and Tignes are far better options than most if you really must book early you'll still potentially miss out on the best conditions.
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FAQ
