 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
I'm looking to get Liberty Helix 2016 skis with Marker Tour F12 2017 bindings as a first quiver do it all freeride ski but since it will be my first freeride purchase ever, I can't decide between the 176 vs 182 length.
I'm 5' 9" (176 cm), 143 lbs (65 kg). I've skied in bounds for about 16 years mostly in Europe. I'm an expert quite aggressive skier on resorts charging pretty quick with controlled technique. I'm looking to switch to backcountry / freeride skis from this season onwards but still planning to ski resorts/off-piste powder tree runs and jumps with friends when the snow's good. I am decided to go with the Helix, but I'm not exactly sure should I get the 176 or the 182 version. I am exactly 176 cm (5' 9") and considering my skiing intention and level, I was initially inclining for the 182 for a bit more stability at higher speeds and better float in softer snow, but I want to still be able to turn it easily in those off-piste tree runs and also work well when throwing it around in jumps.
If the 182 won't show a significant float and stability performance from the 176 I might consider it instead, since it's also lighter and should work better for touring as well as tree runs and narrow couloirs, I'm asuming.
I just can't decide between the 176 vs 182.
Please let me know your input, would be greatly appreciated. What would you recommend or go with?
Best Regards,
Marco
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to the forum. Not that much between them really. The Liberty Helix looks to have a softish tip with stealth rocker so it may turn a little easier than expected for a ski of it's length. I am the same height as you but 11kg heavier, my mid fat ski is a conventionally cambered 177cm and my fatter powder ski is 185cm but with a hell of a lot of rocker (30% each end) so is really nimble in the turns, ideal for tree skiing.
You may have a slight preference for one over the other but without demoing them back to back it is a tough one to call. My advice would be the longer version if you are looking to do more off piste than on and are a fast confident skier. Skiing at slow speeds a longer ski does feel more cumbersome for tight turns. I'm happy with a freeride ski 9cm taller than myself and it is still fine for the small jumps I do, and also great for touring for a couple of hours.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm the same weight as you....so for me, if the ski is playful and easy to bend, I'd go the longer length. If the ski is stiff and damp, I'd go shorter.....I'm not familiar with that particular ski, so can't comment in this case.
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@mvmarco, agree with above , except with a slight concern that generally for touring (and kick turns especially ) the shorter ski would be better for the ascents , also in the tight spots when you have to step/side slip down narrow gaps between rocks and gullies.
so on reflection and with your slight weight i would go with the 176cm 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks a lot for the welcoming and feedback so far guys, really appreciate it!
Well I was inclining towards the 182 myself, since I like to charge quite hard but indeed it might not be a big of a difference, if I could I would have demoed them.. but not really an option. And yes the Helix is known to have mid softer tips for a playful feel and bit stiffer waist. It has stealth rocker/ early rise and a little raise in the tail as well, and it's made of bamboo and poplar core that other reviewers found it snappy and playful, but it will not flex as a fully rockered Origin 106 for example. Here is more info on the construction and tech the helix uses: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/websports/item/51343/
I would indeed be focusing on more lift assisted freeride and tree runs at the beginning, but planing to get into touring with this ski setup, so at the moment I'm thinking the down would be more important than the up.
I was also considering the 176 for the touring benefits with kick turns and challenging terrain, and I would also save some weight as well. Also jumps might feel better on shorter size? Not to mention that the 176 is at a better deal and I can get it for 65€ less than the 182. 
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@mvmarco, peoples first response seems to be to go longer for the pow and fun factor , especially with rocker making the effective length shorter , some times i think you have to consider what most of your skiing will be on , and even on the best days a lot of time is spent on variable snow in the backcountry , don't think you need to worry about the helix nose diving as your not exactly weighty , also option to mount the bindings behind the line ??
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Most people who like to do jumps and tight turns prefer the binding a little more forward, maybe 3cm behind true centre. I found it made a noticable difference when I had touring / freeride bindings put on my all mountain skis and I had them set 15mm further forward, much easier to turn and the ski felt more balanced.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dabber, Yeah that's quite true. Good pow days are a bit rare and it's a matter of good timing as well. Other than that I think most of the skiing will be done on variable terrain indeed. I'd wish to think I'd only be skiing fresh powder, but that won't be the case..
@Scarpa/Dabber, That's good to know. So in theory I could get the 182 and mount the bindings slightly forward for more turn precision, or the other way around with the 176. I did notice that most people prefer the bindings behind the line. I haven't researched binding mounting that much, though!
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@mvmarco, Remember that the manufacturers mounting line is often based around what the ski is marketed towards, and is not the true centre line. On my Bent Chetler skis the recommended mounting line is 2.5cm back from centre. The modern rockered tips prevent excessive tip dive in powder and you really don't seem to need them mounted further back for powder charging. As you are fairly light in weight you should have no problem with your skis on the recommended line, or maybe 5mm forward. I'd talk to the ski tech mounting them though if they know what they are doing.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/170464-Bent-chetler-mounting-point
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you can jump turn, I don't think you'll notice much between 177/182 unless you're in a sphincter tightening 45 deg x 3m wide harder-than-you'd-like couloir 
+1 on mount point: I either sit dead centre or +10mm and it feels well balanced.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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On a side note, I am taking Bonafides out in a 180 this afternoon to make a final decision between the 180s and 173s. (I am 60kgs).
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@Scarpa, Thanks a lot for the suggestions, I'll be sure to go to a good tech for mounting the bindings. I'll definately take that into consideration, and as you say it, it seems quite logical indeed.
@under a new name, Please do share back your findings, I'd very much like to hear your thoughts on this!
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You know it makes sense.
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@mvmarco, stability has more to do with geometry and construction than length ...
I am 167cms (not that the skis know how tall you are) and 60kgs.
Interesting comparing the Blizzards. Both 180 and 163 ahd very much the same foot-feel and the 180s were eminently skiable. But the 173s were just sharper and nimbler without losing any of the unshakeable grip and stability at speed.
Given that one of the nicest off piste skis I have tried recently was the 3G Spitfire at 170 length and about 75cms underfoot ... you don't need big for a good experience - as the bishop said to the actress
Just my 5p worth.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@under a new name, That's very interesting. Yeah I'm assuming the shorter length would feel a little grippy and more easier to manage, but in my case I'm thinking the 182 for me, would feel more like the right choice, since i'm 176 cm. I wouldn't necessarily go for a big length as I always used to ski on shorter skis, hence why I was reluctant to go a little bigger. But as a matter of fact that's why I kinda lost interest in skiing, since I couldn't stand my ancient beaten short piste skis for my skiing intentions/progression, even though that was more to do with the ski technology and being a full cambered piste ski. I just never had the right gear for my style and this season I want to fix that
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Poster: A snowHead
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@mvmarco, I'm 176cm too. I ski a 165 SL ski for piste (sometimes a 182 GS ski), have a 177cm all mountain 98mm underfoot ski and a 185cm 120mm fat ski for powder although as it has a lot of rocker it feels more nimble than it's length would suggest.
The longer fat ski turns much more easily than the traditionally cambered 177cm Nordica Enforcer, although the new 100mm version of that ski is getting some rave reviews, I'd be interested in it myself as an all round off piste ski http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2015-2016-nordica-enforcer-2
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Scarpa, Sorry, I've been away for a couple of days. I've heard about the Enforcer, and it seems a fantastic ski indeed from the reviews, I might consider it in the future, since I finally decided on the Helix 182. It will be interesting to see how would it feel transitioning from old short radius piste skis to the Helix which is considerably longer in both length and sidecut radius. I guess it will take some getting used to, or it will be an "aaahaaa, this is it" moment  Now, we'll see. Thanks guys for all the valuable feedback, it's been greatly appreciate it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mvmarco, don't see why shorter would necessarily be any grippier. Anyway, let us know how you get on.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@under a new name, I was more referring to the construction and the general differences in the ski technologies and radius, and the fact that I've never skied on newer tech freeride skis. Will surely do, however I still have to wait couple days for the bindings to come in stock and also decide on the mounting position. I'm thinking either on the recommended line or slightly forward for a more balanced feel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mvmarco, have fun And look up mounting point on that particular ski, many have a few threads on them around the net, plus the manufacturers website may have info. My old enforcers had two mounting lines, ride and air LOL.
There is always going to be a learning curve with new equipment, I skied my more upright and softer boots today and really had to concentrate on the new balance point and body position, it just felt weird, although a lot more comfy off piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@under a new name,
So What size did you go for?
What did you think to the bonas?
I'm in the market for a 90>100 underfoot ski. My thoughts are mantra/bona/line prophet.
OP don't over think it all, go with your gut feeling and just ski.
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@under a new name,
So What size did you go for?
What did you think to the bonas?
I'm in the market for a 90>100 underfoot ski. My thoughts are mantra/bona/line prophet.
OP don't over think it all, go with your gut feeling and just ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I too am in a similar situation and will probably wait until later in the season for discounting. I'm looking at either the Mantra or Cham 97. However I'm somewhat intrigued by some of the comments regarding prime length. Given that as stated above true powder days are going to be rare and that the length shouldn't be driven by such criteria what length should I be looking at given that I'm between 85 and 90 kg in my undies? The comments above mainly relate to the suggested size for people much lighter than me but I'm reluctant to go much above low 180s. I ski a 173 length mid 80s waist ski currently.
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@Mother hucker, I went Bonafide 173. The 180s didn't add any stability, just were harder work.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Mother hucker, I went Bonafide 173. The 180s didn't add any stability, just were harder work. |
There does seem to be a trend of folks going longer than necessary and with that there has to be some trade off.
What do he bonas really act like on piste carving? I've not skied on anything wider than 78mm, I've got a set at110mm but never had the conditions that I think would warrant the width and to be honest I've not encountered anything that causes problems on the 78mm traditional camber skis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Mother hucker, I feel outclassed in this thread but now that 90/100 is being discussed it seems more my scene. Have just bought Scott The Ski at 175 . last yr's model at a good price from sail and Ski. 93 underfoot....up from my Rossi 86 which, though lovely, de-laminated on one edge. I am oldish, 177 tall, 82kg mainly off-piste but we all have piste days so it looks like a great all-rounder. Off to Verbier Wednesday so will be finding out the good news/other news pretty soon.
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