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Extreme carving skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Could anyone recommend an extreme pair of carving skis?

By extreme I think i mean a ski that would flatter somebody's carving technique when their knees / hips etc are not fully flexed; but high angles and short radii are possible.

I may not fully understand the tech / design that might make an 'extreme' carving ski; I'm imagining that the ski would have a fairly significant side cut radius, but all that might do is reduce the turn radius - perhaps that's what I mean?

Anyway bit of a poorly described post from me, unless I'm unwittingly describing something for whoch there is a product!

Any thoughts welcome including whether this is non-post of 2016!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Non-post of 2016

(Thought I'd get it in first...) Very Happy Very Happy
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
High angle, short radius = full on slalom ski. Head do about shortest radius models that I know of, depending on race/piste spec, stiffness etc. Ditto extreme sidecut (and narrow waist). But does it make a good carving ski? Does it flatter a non-flexed technique/stance? Others are better informed than I...
Or do you really mean a piste performance ski ( at whatever level of skier you are, intermediate to expert as applicable) which is easier to handle (depending on what you like), edges easily, is responsive or stable or...?
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The skier carves the ski.
If you don't tell a full on slalom ski who's is boss, it'll boss you, and throw you off, not flatter your technique (IME).
Extreme surely won't flatter technique? Surely less extreme, more forgiving will?

Redster ST (like a slalom that won't throw you off the mountain, but will make you go Whoa! when you realise how tight 10m radius is when you test maximum mid-turn pressure on the first run), Redster LT (not tried, but loved the kind of predecessor, that only go fast on edge, but useless in bumps) or Kneissl Red Stars (never managed to test these since they are so popular they will be booked out at ski tests).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Keiss Red Stars are a lot of fun, but (at least at the endless intermediate plateau level) are not necessarily flattering of technique, more they respond well to good technique. As @andy says, I think you're maybe looking for a less extreme ski that you can push harder.
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Hi Sasha320 Here's my £0.02 worth.
"You don't need a short s/c radius to carve tight turns". What you do need is controllable speed and rock-solid grip.

Small sidecut radius skis are difficult to ski at any great speed. They want to turn sharply as soon as you lean them.
You need to be a super-expert to establish grip in time or you are through the fall-line and the turn is finished.

Look at a slalom ski track. It is actually a short piece of arc at quite a long radius (10m or so). The average skier hasn't had time to turn them tightly.

On the other hand:-
A GS cut ski (e.g. L=180cm and Rsidecut = 19m) will allow you to establish grip at 19m radius high up in the arc of the turn without changing direction too soon.
Having got rock-solid grip high-up, you can incline the skis and they will respond by bending. Now you are carving.
The more you lean them, the more they tighten the turn. (Yes slalom skis do this too, but at speed, it happens too quickly for good control.)

The track won't be part of a circle. That's good. It will start straight and continually tighten as you lean them over.
Your job is to get skilful and have the direction-change done by or at the fall-line, and roll the edges off and back to flat asap.
(If you don't you will hold the turn too long and you will be unable to get off the downhill ski's inside edge until you slow down enough to do so.)
If you lean a GS ski over as far as you can, it's possible to carve a tighter radius than someone on a slalom ski (who won't have time to get angles).
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@SkiPresto, Unless it's a 35m radius GS ski wink

I have the use of an pair of teenager's GS race skis at 182cm and with a 27m turn radius. They are flexible enough not to throw me off but the turn is way slower than my older 13.5m radius SL skis. With SL skis I find that the key to making really rapid fast turns is to use the pop to hop, the little bounce between turns lets you come down on the opposite edge. GS skis take longer to transition betwen turns.

But even using the edges cleanly and rolling the skis over you can generally turn in plenty of time. Carving is much easier on SLs given that you have good technique and leg strength. But like you say, a good skier on a GS ski may be able to carve a tighter turn down a fall line than a skier on SLs without the skill level.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Do you want an "extreme carving" ski or a ski which you can carve more?

As @andy says, a Slalom ski needs a lot of technique to carve well, and your quads tend to explode after a hour or two of full pressure turns every second. If you want to mellow out and cruise it can feel like you have a labrador puppy attached to your feet, always pulling one way or the other (play, play! come on play!).
On a GS ski it all happens a bit slower so you have time to carve but you do tend to take up a lot of space and build up silly speed pretty quickly, so carving cleanly is limited on crowded slopes unless you are insanely good and can force the things to slow down without cheating and skidding speed off.

I would say a mid radius ski about 16m is a good compromise. I have tried and loved Atomic Redster XT, feels as quick as the GS version but easier to back off when you want to, also tried Head iSupershape (Rally I think?) and found it very easy and competent but a bit less exciting. I am quite a big lump so that might be totally different for a lighter skier. Answer is to demo
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@Col the Yeti, Sounds damn good advice Cool I remember demoing a Kneissl white star Ski Cross model with a radius of 17m and thinking that it would make an ideal all round piste ski.

Many of the 'Cheater Ski' models from various manufacturers would also fit the bill.
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Well, if you're in the Chicago area you can have my old Atomic Metron XI's (NOT the barge B5 versions....) at a preposterous 162cm length with a rated turn radius of 11m I think it was...
Very entertaining... and even decent at high (ish) speeds probably due to being made from depleted uranium - astonishing how heavy a pair of 162cm skis could be.

Looks like these

http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0211/23/atomic-metron-xi-beta-puls-11_1_a2c2aacd239bf0d66be243a6235c52e8.jpg


They're old of course, but you'll get to 'get over' the desire for extreme carving... i've moved on to the far more relaxing Kastle Rx12's I picked up cheap at Whistler. My knees are happier... as are my shoulders when humping them around.

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@coops1967, I am still on the skicross equivalent (SX10s). The weight in a 185 is quite something but they don't half go! I am a fairly chunky rugby player so I can actually bend the things.
I tried and loved some shiny new Redsters, but not enough to fork out for new skis! One year I might get something more relaxing, but not yet.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks for the replies guys, very useful info; but I've realised my question was a red herring.

I thought there might be a further evolution of the carver ski with even more aggressive geometry / shape that would make carving 'easier' - in the same way that carving skis made turning and carving easier when they first came out.

I guess there's really no substitute for fitness, flexibility and training...:0)
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well there were the Atomic D2 vario flex...



These were only in production for a season or 2. I think only one with the rubber tipped option.

Basically it made the ski tips so soft and work independently so carving was very easy.
The problem was that as soon as one learnt how to ski then they would over-turn and whip you around in circles!

But a low speed low action super carve it is/was.
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