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Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis 2016/17

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Welcome to the SFL 2016/17 group! (Probable population: Me)

Thought I'd start a group anyway ahead of my upcoming Christmas trip, just on the off chance that anyone else is going / has information or photos to share / wants to share in my anxiety over the coming 7 weeks.

To kick things off, they're reporting 35cm on the mountain, 10cm in the village, and it all looks pretty snowy on all the webcams ( http://www.bergfex.com/serfaus-fiss-ladis/webcams/c8511/ & https://www.serfaus-fiss-ladis.at/en/service/webcams ), so that's all good.



I am wondering why they don't seem to be making snow or preparing pistes though. They started last week and before the latest snowfall there were multiple pistes where snowmaking was clearly well underway, so I'm surprised to see they've stopped now that temperatures are comfortably low enough all over the mountain. Can see snowmaking and pisting going on at resorts nearby, so just a bit surprised.

Do some resorts just leave it up to nature as long as it is falling from the skies (and with more in the forecast)? Might they have lost confidence in the forecast with possible warmer weather and rain next week?

Bottom line: I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS RESORT.
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If you look at the Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis Facebook page they posted some pictures today, a couple of which were of bashers preparing the piste.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - I am sure they know what they're doing!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@WellingtonBoot, It's a Brilliant resort - my favourite, I go there every year. You will LOVE it.

Where are you staying and what type of skier are you?
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I am going for Christmas too Very Happy

Nice to see the resort white ... lets hope it stays cold now
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@JoyZipper, Good spot, and thanks for the FB tip. Another good opportunity to waste time looking at photos over the next few weeks. I also looked again at the webcams later and some snow cannons had been turned on. I'm sure there's a method to it, I was just curious as to how they strategise around snowmaking. The new reservoir should help significantly, but I guess they still have to be careful to ensure they don't run out of water too early in the winter - I guess if they had all the cannons on permanently from early November, that might be a risk.

@red 27, Yes I noticed your enthusiasm before when I was booking (and found it reassuring when I was having a wobble a few days later...). Tbh, the reason I booked in the first place was that everywhere I looked initially, I saw reviews like yours and it seemed like I'd discovered a hidden gem. It is a shame that it seems to get less snow than some other places nearby, but I've been reassured that they handle it well, and so far this year it seems to be keeping pace anyway.

We will be staying at the Hotel Lasinga. I saw reviews here and elsewhere that were very positive and it seems to strike a good balance between convenience, quality and value. Have you previously reported on another very fancy hotel (Schlosshotel?)? I think I looked at that one and it was unfortunately a bit too expensive for the group. Happy with our choice though.

Type of skier - I'm comfortable tackling any piste or itinerary and have been for a while. I'd say I ski fairly aggressively (although watchfully and sensibly when around other skiers) and generally I enjoy speed. Thing is, I think I've stagnated in the last few years and I'm really keen to try to go to the next level. Primarily I'd really like to do more off-piste skiing. I've only really dabbled off the sides of pistes and rather irresponsibly with some proper stuff when I was a bit younger, but I lack confidence and always feel my technique goes to pieces the moment I go off piste (doesn't help that I'm mostly self-taught in the first place). Also, while I've improved a lot on bumps, I know there is plenty of room to improve my technique and confidence there.

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting some private tuition this holiday to address this. I suspect SFL might not be the place for off-piste, and I'd have to be very lucky for there to be enough snow at that time, but I might try to book an instructor in advance for a couple of mornings nonetheless.

@kingwhite, Good to see others coming out of the woodwork! Nice to be able to share my excitement/anxiety...
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WellingtonBoot wrote:
@JoyZipper, @kingwhite, Good to see others coming out of the woodwork! Nice to be able to share my excitement/anxiety...


We will be there (Serfaus) from boxing day over New year too.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The snow canons and piste bashers are certainly working today Very Happy

If you look at the webcam for Pezidbahn Talstation :-

9.00 am - canons working and huge pile of man made snow.
9.15 am - piste basher in picture.
10.00 am - piles of snow have disappeared.

Fiss webcam showing the canons working at 1550 m this morning too.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@WellingtonBoot, They've had a good start to the season in terms of snow so you might have struck lucky.

I'm the same sort/level of skier as you. Areas I'd recommend are Fiss Northside (over the back off the top of the Sonnjochbahn (sp) gondola - the red one) and the ferocious blacks down from Lazid and Pezid. The trip right out to Manser is also a must

Other great runs are Waldabfahrt into Serfaus and the classic of the area if conditions allow, Frommesabfahrt from the Sonnjoch all the way down to Ladis.

There's also a great timed slalom course on the Fiss northside which is good fun if you're with friends (or enemies Toofy Grin )

Yes I stay at the Schlosshotel but that's off peak and only for 4 days - Lord knows what that would cost at Crimbo week Shocked Skullie In my experience you'll pretty much never find a bad hotel in Austria and certainly not in SFL

The whole place is just flawless - perfect. The quality of skier and the etiquette is in a different league to anywhere else I've been - no yobs, no one's 3-sheets skiing down, and it's all smiles and dankeschoenbitteschoen and a feeling that you're sharing a secret place with like minds Little Angel
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You'll have a ball.

I stayed at Lasinga in March. Excellent.

Ski area is superb.

Would return to both in a heartbeat.
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@JoyZipper, Yup, those piles of snow look lovely. Snowmaking happening all over.

@red 27, Thanks for all the tips. I've come across some of those recommendations elsewhere too, and I've been poring over the piste map for the past month working out all the possible long combination runs...

Everything else you say sounds wonderful. Loads more snow on the horizon this week as well, at least for the top two thirds. Hope it arrives and lays down an indestructable base.

I've obviously noticed how other resorts nearby, like Lech and St Anton, routinely have over twice as much snow forecast, but I've concluded it's as much a question of poor resolution in the GFS forecasting model as anything. All precipitation, regardless of where it's coming from, shows up as expanding blobs centered on fixed locations (Lech, Oetztal) and SFL happens to be located right in between those centres. SFL kept up with those other areas in the most recent storm despite those forecasts, so I'm beginning to relax about the apparent snowshield around SFL...

@Mike Pow, Thanks very much. Your review actually influenced my decision to book Lasinga! Sounds really good and the owners seem really warm and helpful from emails.
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WellingtonBoot wrote:

@Mike Pow, Thanks very much. Your review actually influenced my decision to book Lasinga! Sounds really good and the owners seem really warm and helpful from emails.


My pleasure. They are wonderful.

Snowheads does it's magic once again Smile
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@WellingtonBoot, From my own observations the north side of the valley (Lech & St Anton) does get more snow than the south side (Ischgl & SFL). But the north side also gets more sun on its slopes too and so the south side holds snow better and finds it easier to make it if it needs to.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@red 27, I realise it will get notably more snow as it is ideally situated for incoming storms from the West and North. I just suspect the extent of the difference shown by certain models is exaggerated.

Recently they've been showing differences (6 day forecasts) like 115cm in Lech and only 30-40cm in SFL. And from looking at the models, the same pattern is repeated each time with incoming precipitation, where a blob roughly centred over Lech expands as the intensity grows, until the fringes cover the SFL valley and then it shrinks back. And this regardless of the orientation of incoming fronts or the direction they're coming from.

From years of model and radar and weather watching, this isn't realistic! Precipitation comes in either as bands or as streaks and unevenly distributed 'cells'. Watching the radar during the recent fall corroborated this.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just looked at prices of rooms at Hotel Lasinga. Ouch! Are all hotels in Serfaus this expensive? Used to paying 85 Euro (at New Year) in good three star in Mayrhofen. Solden January lot less. Would love to try resort but seems too expensive Sad
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Ghost Dog, I know what you mean. That was my first reaction. There are cheaper options, such as self-catering apartments and some slightly lower grade hotels (although everything struck me as pretty comfortable), but I think you have to be sharp to snap up any good deals before they get booked up. Things were already pretty booked when we were looking at the end of September.

Anyway, this is a bit of a blowout for our group as we haven't skied together for a while and it's over Christmas itself - not being at home saves quite a bit of money. We also got a good deal I think.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hammering down this morning Smile

http://www.feratel.com/en/webcams-weather/austria/tirol/fiss.html
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ghost Dog wrote:
Just looked at prices of rooms at Hotel Lasinga. Ouch! Are all hotels in Serfaus this expensive? Used to paying 85 Euro (at New Year) in good three star in Mayrhofen. Solden January lot less. Would love to try resort but seems too expensive Sad

Maybe you could have a look at Fiss. I stayed at http://www.lavida-fiss.at/ last winter and payed 55e/pp which I think was reasonable. And it was a Wed-Sun trip so even more so. Lavida is basic but very modern and nice. It's a 15min walk to the lifts but there's a superb storage facility next to the lifts so the walk is ok through a very beautiful village.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Another example of what ive mentioned before right now regarding forecasting in the region. Snow-forecast has 7 cms expected for SFL in the upcoming spell, and 41cm for Lech.

Having also looked at the maps, it's a little difficult to believe that difference. Will be interested to check up on it once I'm back from Georgia - I've had a little look at some of the skiing opportunities here, and some of the available terrain looks excellent, amidst stunning scenery.

Got abandoned up a ski lift one evening which was concerning, but would be fun and definitely an adventure to ski here...
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@WellingtonBoot, When going to SFL it's really best not to compare the forecast or conditions with those in Lech - you'll only wind yourself up...
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Lech really gets lots and lots more snow than SFL, it is simply because it is surrounded by the first mountains in 2500-3000m level that the precipation gets blocked on and it tends to lose a lot before going on. Especially with western winds it is actually only the very west of Austria that gets a lot of snow, Sankt Anton being the last to get some decent snow.

However Lech does have a lot less snowcannons that SFL, and it also much easier gets warmer air (and rain) from the west. Last year in december more was open in SFL than in Lech although much less snow had fallen. So no worry is necessary, but as the post above says, don't compare snowforecasts with Lech, you'll get depressed Happy
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I do realise all of that. I understand why Lech gets more snow, and i actually agree that too much comparison isn't wise...

BUT, the point here is that these aren't only showers blowing in on a westerly wind and holding up on the first couple of ridges. In some cases we're talking about frontal bands of precipitation, and the relevant cyclone blows right through the area. In such cases, this kind of drop off is difficult to believe.

I guess I'll watch for the results of this upcoming system and then review my comments.
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it acually all depends on wind direction, temperature (warmer fronts get more easily deeper into alps), strength of the flow, etcetera. If everything is right SFL can get really a lot of snow as well (I remember once 1m in SFL due to a very strong northern flow). The main thing is that there a lot more combinations that give a lot of snow in Lech than in SFL. This here is a very granular model in which you can zoom in much better, I find the precipitation forecasts per region better than in GFS/WRF:

http://meteociel.com/modeles/aromezoom.php?mode=25&x=11195.89&y=5607.87&ech=42&zoom=4
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'm not so sure though how good it is in Austria, cause it is a French model, but I would suppose weather knows no boundaries Happy
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Could anyone recommend a transfer company out of Inns to Serfaus (7 travelling)

... apologies for crashing a weather thread snowHead
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@kingwhite, There are no transfer companies really.

Speak to your hotel and they'll arrange a taxi - it'll be about €150. (don't get a taxi from the rank at the airport as they're much more expensive)

You could get the bus from the airport to the station and then the train to Landeck and then the H bus which - for 7 or you - would probably be about half that but obviously lots more agg and a lot slower
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@red 27, cheers

i emailed the hotel (universo) ... they sent me a reply in german with a taxi number .... Laughing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@kingwhite, oh - that's not great of them... stay in Fiss next time - better class of hotelier wink

The hotel I stay at has it's own cab which runs people up and down to Landeck or INN for €100 or €150 respectively. Basically the odd-job man who doubles as a driver in the hotel minibus.

When using INN I get a cab all the way, for ZCH I get the train from Landeck (which is a very beautiful train trip)
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I finally plucked up the courage to look at the webcams and witness the devastation from the Foehn. Sad scenes, with patchiness fading to nothing below 2000m. Nonetheless, it looks like they've done a good job with the grooming, and ribbons or patches of ribbons still exist all the way down to town where there is any shelter from the sun.

With three days of warmth to go before the cold returns, I guess it's doubtful that anything useful will remain below 2000m by then, maybe 1800m if we're lucky.

Regarding that last spell of snow, I turned out to be more wrong than I expected... It sounds like Lech did get a reasonable snowfall, and from what I could tell (I couldn't follow it closely as I was away), SFL didn't get more than some patchy dustings. With that said, it wasn't 47cm vs 5cm. Maybe more like 15cm vs ~1cm. It probably underdelivered generally. Ultimately, having looked at Lech's webcams, it seems they've lost everything down to the village too, so any advantage has been lost.

Anyway, I am resigned to Lech and co. getting dumped for the next 4.5 weeks, while I pray for scraps for SFL...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
WellingtonBoot wrote:
I finally plucked up the courage to look at the webcams and witness the devastation from the Foehn. Sad scenes, with patchiness fading to nothing below 2000m. Nonetheless, it looks like they've done a good job with the grooming, and ribbons or patches of ribbons still exist all the way down to town where there is any shelter from the sun.

With three days of warmth to go before the cold returns, I guess it's doubtful that anything useful will remain below 2000m by then, maybe 1800m if we're lucky.

Regarding that last spell of snow, I turned out to be more wrong than I expected... It sounds like Lech did get a reasonable snowfall, and from what I could tell (I couldn't follow it closely as I was away), SFL didn't get more than some patchy dustings. With that said, it wasn't 47cm vs 5cm. Maybe more like 15cm vs ~1cm. It probably underdelivered generally. Ultimately, having looked at Lech's webcams, it seems they've lost everything down to the village too, so any advantage has been lost.

Anyway, I am resigned to Lech and co. getting dumped for the next 4.5 weeks, while I pray for scraps for SFL...


With 31 days until we travel I have no worries whatsoever that there will be plenty of skiing when we arrive. That's a full month of the sun getting lower in the sky (26 days for the pedants!). It may not be white at resort level but I am sure that you will be able to ski top to bottom. The snow cannons will be operating on Sunday when the temperature is forecast to plummet again. Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis is opening on Thursday (8th December) with 33/38 lifts open (86.8%) and 44/163 pistes open (27%) along with 18 restaurants and various parks/freestyle/funslope/racecourse. You will be able to ski down to the village in both Serfaus and Fiss.

With 185 km of pistes that equates to 50km of pistes open from day 1. Not bad by my reckoning.

The cannons have been working all weekend (and again today), hopefully by the time that we are there after Christmas most of the resort will have opened.

Very Happy
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@JoyZipper, That all sounds good...I think...

27% isn't a disaster, although I'm not sure it compares favourably to other resorts close by like Ischgl, where reports suggest it is mostly open.

I suppose the key issue is whether they have maxed out at 27%, and that's as much as will be open until more snow arrives, or if it's just the offering for the opening day with relatively empty slopes. Ultimately, I don't know what percentage they have snowmaking on and I don't know what their strategy is for opening slopes. In the absence of new snow, will they preserve a chunk and keep them closed ahead of the crowds arriving at Christmas?

If no snow arrives and it's still 27% open at Christmas, I fear the skiing won't be great, because slopes will be crowded and hard and icy/scraped. If they can get it up over 50%, it's probably acceptable.

We also arrive before Christmas, so less time for everything to come together...
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@WellingtonBoot, My view is that they've got as much open using artificial as they're going to do given the weather forecast and you'll need real snow before xmas to improve things.

I went in early Jan last year and on arrival conditions were not much better than they are now (although typically it snowed non-stop for the 4 days I was there).

As things stand, Fiss Northside will open and be the best conditions as that gets the most snow and is (as the name suggest) North facing (and it's high). No beginners area up there, it's all dark blue at the easiest.

Manser will be open as that's super high. The other area they make a huge effort with is the Komperdell beginners / family area above Serfaus (both for obvious reasons).

Unfortunately, without some snow, the latter two points may be moot for you guys as the Jochabfahrt traverse link run from Fiss to Serfaus has no snow-making...

Fiss and Serfaus home runs should be open as they have zillions of cannon(s) on them. Serfaus home run gets super-churned up and unpleasantly crowded but down to Fiss it's plain sailing down a nice wide easy 'red'.

Nothing down to Ladis obviously - they'll be up/down loading the bubble. Whether the kiddies area in Fiss gets open is temperature dependent as that's often heavily reliant on artificial - they will certainly try their best as it's such a family resort.

On a more cheery note, things can change quickly. I packed my bags last year thinking I'd be having a nice few days hiking, swimming and enjoying the hotel's fine catering - but actually I was out every day for 8 hours on the planks and had a hoot snowHead (and still enjoyed the food and booze Toofy Grin )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@kingwhite, try Innsbruck taxi.com
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@red 27, Eesh. Don't like the sound of much of that...

It is quite surprising, particularly compared to the situation in Ischgl next door. On another thread it was recently commented that, "Ischgl has great cover on the vast majority pistes but is almost all artificial snow", which suggests that Ischgl has far more snowmaking than SFL. How did my research not highlight this?!?

Everything I saw suggested SFL was pretty much as good as it gets (bar Saalbach) in this regard, and certainly not so far behind neighbour Ischgl. I've seen so much fuss being made about SFL's snowmaking system - somewhere the claim that 80% of the network was covered, and claims about the hugely increased capacity with the new reservoir, plus the claim that the whole Oberscheid area is newly covered for this season.

Regarding no snow-making on the link run, a) that seems really dumb, and b) can't one get over to Serfaus purely by gondola if necessary?

Anyway, I guess it will all hinge on the weather (unless you're wrong, and i sincerely hope you are... wink ). The 'good' news is that there is at least some indication of at least some snow before Christmas, and the big dump we really need isn't off the table yet. Guess I'll be weather watching even more intensely than before, if that's possible...
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@red 27, Incidentally, Jochabfahrt does appear to be on the list of slopes projected to be open. Classics (I hear) like Adlerpiste and Frommesabfahrt will also be open, which is good.
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@JoyZipper, Can you tell me where you found your stats on the slopes that will be open, as well as total slopes etc.? I counted on their site and it lists 44 slopes that will open, like you say, but only 88 pistes in the first place (98 with skiroutes included). That suggests a better portion open of 50%, including some of the longest runs.

88 in total does kind of make sense, as the whole place has around 160km of slopes according to the most reliable sources, which means an average of 2km per slope. If it had 160 slopes for 160km, that suggests average slope length of 1km, which seems a bit short.

Going to do further research on german forums.
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@WellingtonBoot, The pistes that are going to be open are listed on the official website :- https://www.serfaus-fiss-ladis.at/en/winter/season-start

The total number of pistes was taken from the piste map, which can be downloaded from the official website :-

https://www.serfaus-fiss-ladis.at/en/winter/winterpanorama

There is also a very useful interactive piste map on this page. When the resort opens on Thursday it will be interesting to see how much of the interactive map lights up green.

There are 80% of the pistes covered by snow making with 1250 snow cannons according to the skiresort.info website :-

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/serfaus-fiss-ladis/slope-offering/

"80 % of the slopes have snow-making capabilities"

I am not concerned at the least about going there early season. The snow cannons will be working overtime (when suitable) for the next few weeks and if there isn't a big dump there WILL be lots of skiing available.

It could be alot worse - have a look at the Avoriaz webcam, where it's warmer too.

The resort is opening on the 8th December with a decent amount of pistes open. I am very happy with that. It is only going to get better.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Serfaus facebook has a decent video weather/ conditions report this morning ... pistes look decent.
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Quote:

The total number of pistes was taken from the piste map, which can be downloaded from the official website :-



@JoyZipper, I think maybe the confusion here is that you've noticed the highest piste number is 163. Thing is, many numbers are unassigned (maybe 163 is their final target once they open up the rest of the north side...?), so the total number of pistes is actually more like 90, in which case it sounds like they'll have plenty open. Probably well over half in terms of km, since the slopes that won't be open are likely to be steeper/blacker and consequently shorter.

The 80% figure kind of made me think that 80% of slopes should be openable purely on manmade snow, but I suppose there are various possible factors that might complicate that.

Anyway, having reframed the stats on number of pistes open for Thursday, and with a decent possibility of at least some snow on the horizon now, I'm feeling pretty positive again. Hooray.
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Although.... the next 4 days look really warm, temps up to 8 degrees at 2000m.

I suspect not much will be left away from the prepared pistes anywhere on the mountain by Sunday. Fingers crossed the system on the 12th works out.
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