 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Just looking for some advice on building up a quiver of skis over the next couple of years, and where to start. I can't afford to buy more than one pair a season, so wondering what your opinion is on which category of skis to buy first, and also suggestions on individual skis within each category. Currently I've got three old pairs of skis all second hand ebay specials. I've got some old Blue Atomic Puls C9 170cm skis which were my fist pair when I was learning about 6 years ago. Then bought some of the old Head Monster IM 88 skis, 2008 model, 186cm (now mounted with Marker Duke bindings, and with touring skins cut to fit), and a couple of years ago added to that with some Head Supershape iSpeeds, 2011 model, 176cm, which I love. I love both pairs of Heads for different reasons, but both are getting a bit old, and the Monsters have lost all their pop in deeper stuff, and the iSpeeds are getting a bit thin on the edges and the bases are suffering too. I like the stiffness of both Head skis, although they do take a lot of work to ski them well. When skiing trees I find the Monsters a bit too much work, especially at slower speeds and in tight situations, and also they are hard work in deeper stuff, but I love them on harder pack and they hold an edge extremely well when asked to.
I'm a pretty fit 35 year old, 6'3", 100kg + Gear, wear Head Vector 100 boots with ZipFit Liners. I began skiing 6 years ago in Scotland (The now-legendary season of 2010!), have had about 9 weeks in the Alps plus 10-30 days in Scotland per year, depending on the season. I've also got my BASI level 1, teach a bit, and am hoping to work towards Level 2 this season. I'm also hoping to progress to skiing steeper and narrower stuff, and would love to get into ski touring at some point soon.
My question is really where to start. I can probably stretch to one pair of new skis this year, and then the same each year after that. We've got two weeks in Tignes booked for Jan 2017, and will hopefully get back out to the Alps for another week or so if there's any good last minute deals.
I love the iSpeeds and will probably get another pair when they finally die, though have been tempted to either go for the Magnum or Titan, or go the other way and try a womens WC GS Ski, or a Rossi Hero something-or-other. But that's not a priority yet.
Mostly been looking at Volkl Mantras Kendos, Blizzard Bonafide, Dynastar Cham, or one of the two new Head Monsters (88 or 98 ). I demoed the Mantras last season and liked them, though didn't have any other demos to compare them to. My instructor in the Alps last season had them and said they were the best skis he'd ever owned, and recommended them to me. Do you think I should look for a direct replacement for the Monsters, or keep them going and go for a fatter ski for deeper stuff?
So, any ideas on where to go with all this? All suggestions much appreciated.
D
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You might consider the Blizzard Brahma or Volkl RTM 84 UVO, which will give decent Piste performance, while being OK off piste....this will give reasonable versatility until you build up your quiver.
If you want more of an Off Piste Bias, look at Bonafide/Nordica Enforcer/Fischer Ranger 98Ti/Head Collective 105.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Duplo, Check out the PSB, may get you that extra week in the Alps at a reasonable price.
Although it would be Tignes again if that worries you. They're doing a kind of warm up course for BASI Level 2, and (don't hold me to this) but sometimes some ski companies turn up with demo skis.
Potentially a bit of everything for you to try.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 25-10-16 12:08; edited 1 time in total
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Thanks for such a quick response! Those are all skis I'd not considered, I'll have a wee look at them now.
Cheers,
D
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you want a ski for L2 you probably shouldn't go wider than 80mm underfoot. If you are building up a quiver I think you need to have a piste performance ski in there somewhere for your training and exams.
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Thanks rob@rar. I was hoping to make the current iSpeed last for the rest of this season, but that might be wishful thinking. The edges are getting awfully thin and it would only take one rock to blow them out. What are your thoughts on skis for that end of the spectrum? Is it worth getting something slightly more flexible than the iSpeed for the low speed drills etc..?
Cheers,
D
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I've been playing this game of late as well (also if you ever want to see the old monsters drop me a PM as I have a soft spot for things like that).
My current quiver is:
165 Fischer Slalom Skis (dry slope and indoor)
186 Whitedot Ranger 108's with Trackers
188 Kastle MX88's (my main resort and hard snow ski)
188 PM Gear stiff bro's (rock skis)
190 Volkl Explosiv's (with home rockered tips and tails - Scotland and shite snow days)
192 Atomic Bentchetlers (resort pow)
Current shopping list
183 GS sticks for icy days in resort (used to own a set but broke them)
191 Mantra (looks fun, updated Explosiv)
193 Whitedot Ragnarok (because why not)
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| Duplo wrote: |
Thanks rob@rar. I was hoping to make the current iSpeed last for the rest of this season, but that might be wishful thinking. The edges are getting awfully thin and it would only take one rock to blow them out. What are your thoughts on skis for that end of the spectrum? Is it worth getting something slightly more flexible than the iSpeed for the low speed drills etc..?
Cheers,
D |
In the Head range, Titans and Magnums are always popular. The iSpeed is a more popular ski for L3 training. But any ski in that category (piste performance, but not necessarily a FIS race ski) would be suitable. Pair something like that with a more off-piste focused ski and you have a decent 2-ski quiver.
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If you are looking at Piste skis, I would suggest:
Dynastar Speed Zone 12 Ti
Völkl Code Speedwall S UVO
Head Supershape i.Magnum (or possibly Titan for a little more versatility)
Rossignol Persuit 700 Ti (or possibly 800)
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For an off piste focused ski - look at a 105-110 waist rockered freeride ski at your weight. There are heaps available as it has become one of the bread n butter categories - I'd say checkout the Soul7, Cham 107, Whitedot Director, Cochise, Monster 105 or if you can find them at a decent 2nd hand price the Kastle BMX 105 with or without metal.
Roughly that order is from softer/playful to stiffer/more chargey but that's only personal opinion.
Cue inevitable people saying that's too wide - seems to me that most people who get on something in this width bracket for all mountain (non piste focused) skiing aren't in a hurry to go back to skinnier unless they are in exam mode.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 25-10-16 12:53; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oh and back to the OPs question - the only advice I can give is at least 2, preferable 6 and never less than 10! 
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I refuse to list my theoretical and actual quiver on the grounds it will incriminate me and the obvious overlap will be obvious. All I can say is @dp probably did me a favour by sniping the Rags I'd probably have added to it with almost zero justification.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@David of the Marmottes, Interesting curve ball there. I hadn't even considered anything of that width. Which end if the charger/playful end of the spectrum would you lean towards?
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Poster: A snowHead
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The PSB looks great, but having just started a new job I don't think would be feasable this year, though will bear in mind for next. It would also probably use up the little cash set aside for new skis. Always such a dilemma that one. New skis or a week of skiing....? That's why it's taken me so long to consider a brand new pair!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Duplo wrote: |
| @David of the Marmottes, Interesting curve ball there. I hadn't even considered anything of that width. Which end if the charger/playful end of the spectrum would you lean towards? |
There's no point building a quiver unless you have a real offpiste/powder option in it. Otherwise you just have a collection of piste skis.
From what I can see you have functional piste and all mountain skis already, and the obvious gap is something for soft snow.
Al the skis Dave mentioned could be good. Charger/playful spectrum depends entirely on how you like to ski and your own preferences.
Seeing as we're listing quivers, mine is currently:
- 194 Down CD1 (135mm) for powder
- 189 Down CD114 metal for everyday
- 183 Down CD107 with Kingpins for touring
and I've got a pair of now-bindingless 193 4FRNT EHPs kicking about somewhere, retired Moment Bibby Pros to go on a wall when I get a proper ski room, and some Atomic SX11 piste skis that haven't seen the light of day in years.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Clarky999, I've not ever skied anything that fat so really have no idea. Might try to demo some, bu tit would be at Snow Factor, so not the best conditions for a powder ski! Is it better to go for a slightly softer (or shorter??) ski for trees? Would it be possible to get one light enough for touring with say some Kingpins on it, but still stiff enough (and durable) for my weight category?
D
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's turning into a difficult question to answer. I suppose it boils down to things like:
- How big a quiver are you hoping to put together..which determines gap range.
- What do you want from your first purchase ie. Skis for passing L2 (Piste), All Mountain with Piste bias, or All Mountain with Off Piste bias (Freeride)
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| Duplo wrote: |
| @David of the Marmottes, Interesting curve ball there. I hadn't even considered anything of that width. Which end if the charger/playful end of the spectrum would you lean towards? |
I've skied all the skis I listed and they are all great skis, with the exception of the Head which I'd describe as merely good ( a bit planky for my taste). I own the Director Carbonlite because I think its versatility and giggles are unmatched bit could make a case for any of the others. Note while I put a fair amount of weight through my skis I don't tend to hoon around at Mach schnell so my tolerance for softer skis like the Soul 7 may be different.
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@under a new name, It's a long term plan. I'm hoping to ski for the rest of my life, and hopefully do a season or two in there, if I don't end up moving to somewhere in the mountains. I'm also a mountain biker and realise that one bike is just never enough - not even close!
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@Duplo, hahaha
well, you know, I can hardly criticise as I do have about 14 pair sof skis in my garage, most of which have next to no life left in them but I can't bear to just dispose...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Old Fartbag, I think the quiver will be 3, maybe 4 skis. A piste ski for hooning and passing BASI courses, an all mountain, and a fatter softer snow ski. Maybe add a touring ski on top of that, and then maybe a teaching ski so I don't wreck my nice skis.
Hmm, this is an ever expanding list!
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| Duplo wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, I think the quiver will be 3, maybe 4 skis. A piste ski for hooning and passing BASI courses, an all mountain, and a fatter softer snow ski. Maybe add a touring ski on top of that, and then maybe a teaching ski so I don't wreck my nice skis.
Hmm, this is an ever expanding list! |
...and where do you want to start?...bearing in mind what you own (and their condition), along with the length of time it will take to complete the quiver (4 or 5 years?).
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 25-10-16 14:16; edited 3 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Duplo, Why not get something suitable for BASI 2 first then see what is available on BASI deals.
My quiver is just race skis plus a pair of Soul 7s, I don't get enough powder days to want a stiffer fat ski and can ski fairly deep snow fine on slalom skis. In hindsight, I could have got the Soul 7s with touring bindings and the pre-cut skins.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This might be controversial around here, but I think until you're spending seasons, or at least many weeks, living in resort a quiver of skis is a waste of money. You're better off getting something like a Head iTitan that does everything pretty well and will see you through your short term goals of BASI L2, and still be reasonably capable in softer snow, and spending the money you save on more weeks skiing and training. Be realistic: how many pairs of skis would you take with you on a week away?
There are obviously exceptions to this where you might want completely different skis for different weeks (e.g. a week of touring vs a week of skiing in resort) but I think in general more skiing and fewer skis is where my money is.
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You know it makes sense.
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1) A piste ski. Whatever the BASI guys think is the right thing to have for instructor purposes.
2) An off-piste ski. 100-110mm underfoot with a frame binding. That should be right for someone skiing off piste 90 per cent of the time and largely using the pistes to access ungroomed terrain. The point here is to get something that will be ok-good on any reasonable combination of snow conditions you might encounter over a 2000m vertical descent.
What to get is largely a matter of personal taste. I have two skis in the 100-110 range, each intended to do different things. The Whitedot Rangers are directional, have a flat tail and like to be driven. I also have a pair of Black Crows Atris, which I anticipate will be a lot more playful, but I have yet to ski them. They have similar shapes but I'm expecting different things from them.
Beyond this, the logical step is Dynafit compatible boots before we begin to think about more skis.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@rjs, Good point, though I'm not sure I'm quite as good a skier at it sounds you are. My powder experience is limited too, so my technique is not great, and would certainly struggle on some piste skis. I could just about get away with the Monsters last season in Paradiski. What do you think about the Soul 7s for my weight? I've read reviews from heavier people saying they don't hold an edge and are very flappy at speed. I guess that's not what I would be buying them for though!
What are your thoughts on the piste end of the spectrum for BASI 2? The Head Magnum/Titans both look good, but also read the Nordica Doberman Spitfire Ti was recommended for BASI courses.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kieranm wrote: |
This might be controversial around here, but I think until you're spending seasons, or at least many weeks, living in resort a quiver of skis is a waste of money. You're better off getting something like a Head iTitan that does everything pretty well and will see you through your short term goals of BASI L2, and still be reasonably capable in softer snow, and spending the money you save on more weeks skiing and training. Be realistic: how many pairs of skis would you take with you on a week away?
There are obviously exceptions to this where you might want completely different skis for different weeks (e.g. a week of touring vs a week of skiing in resort) but I think in general more skiing and fewer skis is where my money is. |
Unless you want to enjoy skiing the other 50% of conditions, I demoed the titans when thought it was all I needed and was left feeling very meh, they were ok on piste, they were ok off it, shite in powder & mank. For me the MX88's and Bentchetlers are what goes in the ski bag when I'm flying as they cover pretty much all I'm going to face in the alps on weeks trip. The others are all very specific tools and come out if I drive out. Its nice to know you have options.
Oh and the whole lot cost me less than a set of titans...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Be realistic: how many pairs of skis would you take with you on a week away?
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Two. Almost always two. If I have to choose between the piste pair and the off-piste pair then its the off-piste pair. I found myself wanting to tour very early in my off-piste skiing career - as in shortly after the first week. As soon as that happens, you are looking at more than one pair of skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I take your point @kiernanm, The Titans do look like a very good ski that would replace both of my current skis to a degree, but would still have the monsters if needed. Then use any spare cash to actually ski the things! I guess next season I would have a better idea of what I wanted/where I was going to be living and could then buy another pair accordingly. @gorilla's suggestion of a fatter ski for those full offpiste days also sounds like a good one.
Two more questions then:
1. Apart from the Titans, what would be a good BASI L2 ski for me.
2. Are my boots the weak link in the chain for my size/weight?
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@Lordf - good point about buying second hand.
3. Do I need to buy them new??? I've got quite a few years out of the ebay deals I've had so far. Should I just keep doing that and forget about brand-new-this-season? Do off piste Skis loose their 'pop'?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Duplo wrote: |
@Lordf - good point about buying second hand.
3. Do I need to buy them new??? I've got quite a few years out of the ebay deals I've had so far. Should I just keep doing that and forget about brand-new-this-season? Do off piste Skis loose their 'pop'? |
I'd be happy buying second hand - most skis aren't skied out and I've had good use out of junkers I've inherited from other people. Generally the buyer should be able to tell you how many days they have had on them and condition of top sheet will generally back that up. Plus wider skis are quite often aspirational - guys will buy them then spend most of their time skiing with family etc so not really put heavy use on them so best to buy from a family man rather than a hard core seasonnaire (soft core seasonaaires of course will often gear up at the beginning of the season then spend most of it hungover or working so they too may see little mileage on a specialist ski)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The only sets I've bought new I've done in the sales (the R 108's were new but @ 60% off), I would love to buy new but it removes the ability to afford to ski if I do.
My MX88s and Bentchetlers have seen better days but will last a good few more years of use, and tbh it makes me feel less bad when I ski over rocks or someone walks across them in the lift line, both cost me less than hiring them out there for a week so I see them as having paid for themselves already.
If I were building a true two ski quiver these days for travel it would probably be something like this, these can be had on eBay new or ex demo for a decent price BTW.
These are based on my height and weight (6'3 and 96kg)
Piste Side with Attack 16's or 18's
184 Head Monster 88's
182 Fischer Motive 86ti
Toring / Powder / Freeride side with Adrenalin 16's
191 Head Collective 105's
188 Solly QST 106's
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@Duplo, I did my L2 on Titans and had a 100mm+ pair (with touring bindings) that did for everything else from deep Japow to some short day tours and a longer 4 day hut to hut walkathon last March.
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| Duplo wrote: |
| What do you think about the Soul 7s for my weight? I've read reviews from heavier people saying they don't hold an edge and are very flappy at speed. I guess that's not what I would be buying them for though! . |
In my experience the Soul7s can be a bit flappy as you say, but it's nothing you can't control with a little more forward flex to engage the full edge, once you figure that out it's almost a useful bit of feedback. Having said that i switched last year to faction chapter 106s and you can definately feel a more solid ride underfoot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kieranm wrote: |
| a quiver of skis is a waste of money. You're better off getting something like a Head iTitan that does everything pretty well and will see you through your short term goals of BASI L2, and still be reasonably capable in softer snow, |
Have BASI explicitly said that anyone not on an Titan is an automatic fail? It certainly starts to feel that way when people start to talk BASI skis 
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I would start building a quiver with getting a pair of decent all-mountain ski and then filling the gaps by buying skis to cover for terrain/conditions where the all-mountains do not exactly excel. However in your case if you use carvers a lot, I would start with replacing them first, and add something like Dynastar Cham 97. Then you can decide what else you need. If you only "consider" getting into touring, don't get touring skis yet but focus on skis you will be definitely using now, or put some Marker Barons on Dynastars, which should work well as a starter kit when you begin touring. I would choose Cham 97 over 107, but this is just me. I find narrower skis more versatile, and I enjoy skiing 110+ on powder days, with 107 I don't think I could justify getting a fatter pair, and a narrower ski feels easier on my bad knee for everyday skiing.
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FAQ
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