So, is there anywhere?
I've been spoilt by learning to ski in Fernie, Revelstoke, Kicking Horse, Red Mountain and a few others... but now I'm stuck to looking at just one week in Europe!!!
First world problems I know, but is there anywhere in Europe that has in bounds off-piste, un-groomed slopes & glades like you find in Canadian resorts?
I'm a solo skier, so full on off-piste isn't an option & to further complicate matters, I'll have the non-skiing OH with me...
Can anyone recommend somewhere that's got Canadian style steeps inbounds (like 'Big Bang' in Fernie for reference)?
I've tried Austria so far & there was no pow, but I got the impression that was pretty much the norm & the 'skiing im wald verboten' signs didn't bode well, even if there had been the conditions!
Anyone? There must be somewhere???
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@newsfromthefront, welcome to Snowheads.
It's never going to be the same; different topology, different weather, different tree growth. You could be setting yourself up for disappointment if you're looking for a direct equivalent.
Sainte Foy tries to run itself on something of the North American model, with free ride areas that are avvy controlled. Other resorts also advertise 'Freeride' zones too. But, you may or may not get the snow. No guarantees.
I'm no expert on North American skiing but as I understand it the lift pass is relatively expensive. Maybe set aside some of that lift pass saving to spend on some time with a guide? That way you can ski interesting terrain, with someone else to worry about avvy risk, route finding and knowing where the best snow is. Would that suit you at all? There are some wild places to ski in Europe (and not so wild, depending on your taste) but you often need local knowledge to get the best of it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I can't think of anywhere that has much in the way of interesting (that doesn't get tracked out instantly) 'inbounds' ungroomed stuff. Certainly plenty of places in Austria that gets lots of snow and have rad treeskiing, but you have to go 'offpiste' to get it.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Onnem, Do the Queyras have extensive avalanche protected offpiste? I'd understood it to be 'standard' ski at your own risk offpiste.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Ok places in Europe most likely to get skiable powder well anywhere but it is not all that likely. There is nowhere that gets the regular powder dumps that somewhere like Alta gets.
But St Anton Verbier Chamonix would all give you above average chances and there would be something for the non skier to do.
If you go to St Anton and you get snow head for Rendl it does not get tracked out as quickly.
Oh yes if you go to Cham stump up and join a group to do the Vallee Blanche. Pretty special. DO NOT COWBOY IT ON YOUR OWN. People die in crevasses every year. http://youtube.com/v/sNO_iwrW40g
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How about Scotland? Steep inbounds offpiste and ungroomed practically defines the experience at Nevis Range and Glencoe. Cairngorm not bad for this either if it's not too busy. Nevis has about 500m vertical, steep inbound off-piste, large variety of routes. Glencoe has a bit less vertical unless the snow is down to the car park, then its >700m. No trees and the snow usually comes in horizontally and often wet on vicious winds so don't expect deep powder but the closest ski area is under 3 hours drive from Carlisle so they can be great for a weekend. Keep an eye on the weather forecast.
@newsfromthefront, as @M...oconnor, says, basically, no, as the geography is too different.
But increasingly, areas are at least to an extent controlling limited off piste areas (e.g. off the Punta Indren lift above Gressoney, many places have "itineraries" which are un-groomed but can be controlled, depending on the area, and Morzine has even begun glading areas. And many runs are un-pisted.
But it just doesn't work like North America in general. And the snow is less predictable - not that NA is completely predictable anyway, I have skied some very old snow in Utah and very rained on snow in BC. Especially in Scotland, where you more or less (unless the climate has changed radically since I grew up there - where I began to learn to ski) have to make the go/no-go decision the night before. In fairness, weather forecasting is much better so maybe you have 2 nights grace.
You are really trying to compare apples and pears though. Every year we have clients from NA visit us in Chamonix looking for the alpine ambience, big mountain steeps, etc. Plus and not to be discounted, much, much more in the right places for the OH half to do (I mean, just what would she/he do in Kicking Horse while you skiing??)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
From my limited experience last winter I'd recommend
San Martino Di Castrozza, Trentino Dolomites, Italy
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As others have said you'll not find lots of terrain like you get in BC, but if you're ok looking for something different then you'll still have a great time in Europe. Having spent a season in BC and been back many times since I think you'll still enjoy the Alps.
In no particular order of preference I'd consider Chamonix just for the terrain, vertical (at Grand Montets) and skiers to a very similar standard to that you'd find in Fernie. Also look at St Anton, again some great terrain and huge linker area like nothing in Canada. Also look at southern Alps, Serre Chevalier has some excellent tree skiing in good snow conditions, amongst the best I've done in Europe. It's also close enough to La Grave. Finally, smaller area but Courmayeur is excellent and had a small ski hill type feel to it that you get in Canada (to me at least) and has some excellent terrain in stunning surroundings. Doesn't get tracked out any where near as quick as Chamonix either.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The chance of finding POWDER in the European Alps is miniscule compared to US/Canada. What most people usually refer to as 'Powder' in Europe is far more likely to be soft new snow. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not powder. Listening to skiers or boarders especially refer to 'POW' is always amusing and reminds me of the old Batman TV series. Infantile. As has been said trying to compare Canadian skiing with European is just not possible for all the reasons stated. You are a solo skier so do go out with a local guide who will find the type of terrain you are looking for, though maybe not the powder you seek. Good luck
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Obviously going to the wrong places at the wrong time @Old Man of Lech.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
newsfromthefront wrote:
So, is there anywhere?
First world problems I know, but is there anywhere in Europe that has in bounds off-piste, un-groomed slopes & glades like you find in Canadian resorts?
"Naturide" runs in Espace Killy (Val d'Isere and Tignes) and I dare say elsewhere.
But why not instead do what you don't get in Canada; the huge circuits of pistes that you get in Espace Killy, Trois Vallees, Sella Ronda etc?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Mike Pow, 10 FULL seasons in the Alps. Switzerland,France & Austria. Number of TRUE powder days,probably no more than a handful. Too many people who think it is powder have probably never experienced the kind of snow referred to as powder in North AMerica, probably never been there. As I said amusing to hear these powder virgins getting all excited about soft fresh snow.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What some of those guys said, really. Don't go to Europe expecting something from North America. Take what you find, make the most of it. There's a reason snowboards without metal edges didn't develop here.
Go to France, ride at the biggest ski area in the world and be astounded about quite how small that makes Whistler feel. Get some piste skis or a race board. Visit Italy and notice the difference in approach there, or Austria, or Switzerland. Each is more different from the other than Canada is from the USA. Don't look for what's the same, look for what's different.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Only been to Canada in summer. Impressed by the scenery, and by the coffee looking like tea, and tasting even worse
Therefore: enjoy the quality of European food & coffee and culture at a nice alpine restaurant
@Mike Pow, 10 FULL seasons in the Alps. Switzerland,France & Austria. Number of TRUE powder days,probably no more than a handful. Too many people who think it is powder have probably never experienced the kind of snow referred to as powder in North AMerica, probably never been there. As I said amusing to hear these powder virgins getting all excited about soft fresh snow.
Top Post!
haha.. Ankle, Boot Dust !
Caveat.
If you can Ski Arlberg Powder you can ski anything
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
GnaBuN and SOPi would both give you the chance of proper OP with groups ...or the MYasH where there is potentially OP to be found and you could convert your non-skiing OH into a snowhead.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Old Man Of Lech, 10 days with 50cm or more last season in a European resort! But sure nowhere gets pow like N.America right! I have skied 8 weeks in BC and Alberta, a few weeks in Colorado and a few weeks in California. N.America has the same issues as Europe not every day is a powder day, sometimes there is no or little snowfall!
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Old Man Of Lech wrote:
@Mike Pow, 10 FULL seasons in the Alps. Switzerland,France & Austria. Number of TRUE powder days,probably no more than a handful. Too many people who think it is powder have probably never experienced the kind of snow referred to as powder in North AMerica, probably never been there. As I said amusing to hear these powder virgins getting all excited about soft fresh snow.
Christ!!!!
I must be the luckiest bloke alive.
I had more than two handsfull in one trip to Georgia and two trips to Italy last season.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
KernowRed wrote:
I would skip Europe and head to Japan, more powder per year than Canada and fairly flat mountains. Loads of off piste next to piste
Result!
That's been my experience on Hokkaido, Japan.
More knee deep and deeper powder days per season than my seasons in Austria, Italy, USA and Canada.
Hell more powder days per week in January than @Old Man of Lech has seen in a decade!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike Pow wrote:
KernowRed wrote:
I would skip Europe and head to Japan, more powder per year than Canada and fairly flat mountains. Loads of off piste next to piste
Result!
That's been my experience on Hokkaido, Japan.
More knee deep and deeper powder days per season than my seasons in Austria, Italy, USA and Canada.
Hell more powder days per week in January than @Old Man of Lech has seen in a decade!
But hardly an answer to "Where in Europe has in-bounds off-piste like Canada?"
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As people have mentioned you cant expect to get North American conditions in Europe. That being said, it almost solely depends on the specific weather in the area you are visiting. Powder dumps do happen, and in some places even quite often. Go in week 2-10, choose an area within the alps and you will stand a fair chance of running into som powder (maybe not 50 cm each night, but still). When skiing it you will probably want to ski between the slopes. Most of the slopes are prepared during the night, even on powder days, so the only way you will find some nice conditions is between the slopes, beneath the lifts etc. This can be great skiing, but can hardly be considered avalance secure. If you pick your routes carefully it can however be done without any major risks. I have been skiing the european alps regularly since I was 13, thats more than ten years now, and it is more or less 50/50 if I arrive a week with good snow conditions or if I will have to grind it on the slopes alone (regular powder days are a bit more rare though!). Last year for example I skied Kaprun with four days of average snow conditions and the last two days with around 40 cm of new powder. They even have offpist routes on their glacier. That was spectacular.
Also you should probably avoid Italy, they are known to have very strict regulations when it comes to offpist (normally they take your liftcard if they see you skiing besides the slopes).
If I were you I would pick the place and the time so that there is a fair chance to get som nice snow, but I would also just try to experience 'the european way'. If you have never been to Europe to ski before I am sure you will see that its a whole other experience compared to North America. Skiing in sun while it being warm enough for t-shirts and shorts in the french alps are surely something.
Good luck!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@TheDude that's new to me about Italy? Granted only been to Courmayeur and Montgenevre so far but I've friends who've been elsewhere and I've never known that? Which resort(s) have that approach?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
newsfromthefront
I love to ski Kicking Horse & Revelstoke and the places around Banff.
But they are minuscule compared to the Alpine ski regions, you will get all you need in The "Three Vallees" or "Espace Killy" and there are smaller places which get less traffic and not skied out as quick.
But I must admit I've never experienced "Powder" skiing in Canada and only a whiff of it in Utah.
I think the best powder day I had was in Bulgaria of all places. (but I would not bother going there)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Also you should probably avoid Italy, they are known to have very strict regulations when it comes to offpist (normally they take your liftcard if they see you skiing besides the slopes).
Not universally true.
Aosta pretty welcoming to off pistes, although there are a few clearly marked areas where they will arrest you and imprison you for a few weeks for it.
Gressoney e.g. has a large semi controlled bowl, but they will often check you have avvy kit, although not always.
Piedmonte (e.g. Alagna sells itself on being the world freeride capital) but you need avvy kit or you can be fined if found off piste without it (and the price book will be thrown at you if you need rescued, etc.)
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@bigtuboflard: as far as I know its mostly common practise in the large/semi large resorts like: Marileva, The Italian Dolomites (including Canazei), Livigno, Sestriere etc.
Maybe I should have stated, that it ofcourse is not true for all Italian areas - just a fairly large part of them compared to other countries. I have been skiing offpist myself in Italy numerous times and my impression is that people do it even though it does not comply with the specific ruleset of the area, but then you should also know that there is a risk of you being caught. I my opinion its just as easy to pick a resort in another country or at least check if the resort you have in mind have very strict rules when it comes to offpist skiing.
As mentioned there are so many large ski areas in Europe that it is really not that hard to pick a similar resort in another country if need be
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@newsfromthefront, As others have said: Vive la différence!
European resorts, especially the huge ones like Espace Killy and the 3 Valleys are a totally different experience than many Canadian and US resorts. And that's the whole point! Embrace that and experience them for what they are.
I've had American friends over to Meribel and they have had a fantastic experience. And when I have skied in the USA the whole pleasure has been that it is different to Europe.
Saying that, if you do happen to find a good supply of "POW" somewhere in Eupope do let us know.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Never been to Canada or US, nor the Austrian resorts mentioned - but for lots and lots of deep snow, some near the description of powder maybe (not Scotland wet, anyway, and definitely whay-hay yippee style), often ungroomed, try some of the Scandinavian/Lapland/Finland resorts? Definitely loads of trees to play in and around too Not all slopes are short, nor gentle.
Different place(s) again to central usual Europe.
Somewhat ironically about the very worst powder day I have ever experienced is at the the place that has actually trademarked the term Champagne Powder TM. It was deep but it was oh so wet it really wasn't pleasant.
Even more ironically I believe Old Man of Lech is off there this season
( Don't worry I'd storm chased there because it was the only place that looked like scoring out of a Tropical Punch so the moisture tap was very warm)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@newsfromthefront,
It is not going to be like Canada. The Canadian in-bounds avalanche controlled stuff is great for doing on your own but cannot compare to what you could ski in Europe with mountain guides. I have only skied around Banff and in Whistler though.
The Canadians and Americans I have skied with are blown away by the skiing in Europe, they have said it is incomparable. They have places to stay in Whistler and Alta and are serious off-piste skiers.
As has been said the off-piste possibilities are huge in Europe and the terrain is amazing. A place that that has some inbound off- piste skiing is Fieberbrunn. It also gets loads of snow.
If I was you I would spend the money on an off-piste guided group and try St Anton (as has been said it gets loads of snow) - maybe stay in Lech/Zurs for the OH. You could contact Piste to Powder, Franzi Trimmel or one of the other operations there.
I have experienced amazing fresh deep snow with huge dumps in the Arlberg, Espace Killy, 3Vs, Zermatt, Solden, Paradiski, St Foy, and Fieberbrunn, among others. I thought that skiing really deep fresh snow with face shots was powder skiing, so did my Canadian and American friends. I know I have had some real luck with the few weeks I get but powder skiing is possible in Europe - bring your snorkel and hire a guide!
Wow... thanks everyone for all the excellent suggestions & info, there's some seriously interesting stuff to consider there
@Maireadoconnor - Sainte Foy looks like exactly what I'm after thanks!
@what...snow - been to Glencoe a couple of times & really enjoyed it, didn't rate Nevis Range though (though maybe the horizontal rain had something to do with it)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@newsfromthefront, look at Baqueira, off piste ran on north American lines, plus superb powder if the weather is kind.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Christ!!!!
I must be the luckiest bloke alive.
I had more than two handsfull in one trip to Georgia and two trips to Italy last season.
Live in the alps so increases my odds
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@TheDude, is it not simply that you have not noticed signs regarding nature reserves and/or particular avvy danger? The Dolomites are (I believe, having only been a few times and had some very fine off piste, but only paid essential attention) are in a natural park, which naturally (sic) restricts h.p. activity.
But it's not due to a particular national abhorrence of the concept.
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Poster: A snowHead
