£1 donation to help British winter sports

A snowHead

http://bbc.in/2cZrMaI

Sounds like a good plan?

A snowHead

Tricky. I'd not object to putting my hand in my pocket, but plenty of recreational skiers probably couldn't give a tinkers about funding freestyle snowboarders.

The question is, as a nation, are on-mountain winter sports something we want to be known to be good at? If the answer is yes then we should fund it, if not then no, and that money can be channelled elsewhere. As we've seen from good medal tally at the summer Olympics and Paralympics good funding, training programmes and management leads to success, and we're not short of raw talent.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Richard_Sideways, I suspect you're right. Most UK skiers probably don't give a monkey's about funding Snow sports. Bizarrely, snow sports seem a rather different thing from 'going skiing' and I'm not sure the emotional link is there.

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@foxtrotzulu, i think you are spot on re emotional link.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I suppose Snowheads is an interesting testbed for this funding suggestion. How many of us would happily contribute £1 per person towards funding snowsports when booking a holiday? Personally, I probably wouldn't go so far as to strike off the donation, but:
1. I'd far rather it went to a more worthy cause - e.g. local Alpine charity, Disability Snowsport etc.
2. I always resent someone else telling me whom I should donate to. If Thomson Holidays, Crystal, Rossignol Skis etc. all think this is a brilliant idea then they are more than welcome to donate money to it but I'd rather decide for myself which chairities / good causes I support.

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here is the direct link to donation page

http://www.bssnf.uk/

(They could make it easier to donate e.g. allow the use of Paypal....)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Somebody has obviously dreamed this up while trying to come up with untapped revenue streams which is all well and good on paper.

So in theory it's a good idea, but more begs the question of WHY should the British public pay for this? Surely if the uk governing body (pardon my ignorance but I've no idea who it actually is) put in more effort to get better snowsports exposure I.e more than just ski Sunday/a bit of Eurosport, and more importantly increase participation in these type of events.

As far as I can see, skiing/boarding for *most* people from the UK is just a leisure activity, not a competitive sport, if the uk body is serious about developing talent, surely they should be aiming at getting kids involved, enjoying competition, and the sponsorship and money will eventually come along with the exposure

personally I wouldn't contribute as I don't give a flip about Olympic type snow sports, this almost seems like an attempt to levy an 'Olympic tax' on people who book package deals!

After all it is free

albob because paypal charges the receiver (even for charities) they'd be getting just over 21p from a one pound donation

mikeholmes25 the problem in the UK i that there is a. a big issue with exactly who develops competitive alpine sports and b. due to lack of performance (due to little or no funding) there is no central funding for most of the alpine sports.

http://uksport.gov.uk/sports/olympic/ski-and-snowboard shows the only funding is going to the freestyle events, this makes it incredibly difficult for us to get up and coming atheletes into non freestyle events, those that do have to get their own sponsorship, pay for coaches, transport and so on.

Putting my DHO head on for a moment there are a number of clubs including ourselves who support up and coming racers and we are all looking for any help we can get, donations to us (and probably to the others) go directly towards helping fund training camps if you say that's what you'd prefer to help.

http://www.DHOracing.com http://www.kandaharracing.com/ http://www.spsrc.org.uk/ all of these three are relatively small clubs who put a lot into training new talent and over the years have achieved good results in term of people who went on to compete for their country, any of them would I'm sure appreciate even small donations

P.S sorry for the unfinished nature of http://www.dhoracing.com/ but it's still a work in progress

A couple of years ago the UK Nordic ski team had a (very successful) crowdfunding project for the Olympics which I'm glad to say I contributed too

Here's the original link for reference

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OK well the British Schoolboys Races are being held in Wengen 28th Jan to 1st Feb 2017, The Schoolgirls Races same dates in Flaine, the Ambition championships Jan 6-8 Hinterreit in Austria, The Delancey British National Alpine Ski Championships will be 25th March to 7th April in Tignes

You know it makes sense.

@PaulC1984, A good starting point is Britski.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@rjs, Thank you Happy

A snowHead

I like the idea of it being an option. If you want to donate you can, if not strike it off.

A snowHead

What if there were a surcharge on Snowhead super/mega membership which went to funding snowsport athletes?
Say - £5 per year, put into a kitty and donated annually on behalf of the SH membership to BSS (or similar) Or a vote from the SH populous to which rising star who'd get the fund that year.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Legend., Me too. I don't have a problem with it at all.

You have this carbon footprint option, gift aid option (which mucks up your tax btw) etc etc so why not this.

What id actually prefer to see is a DSUK option as the guys and girls running / instructing there do an AMAZING job!

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@Hyst, Not caring much about since brevet remember Happy

Are you suggesting that us brits sponsor someone who already has mountains and more so plenty of funding since your part of the EU Happy

Grenade thrown I shall now go and hide Toofy Grin

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Quite so, as a USA snowhead no way i want to pay for some young brit boarder.
Go ahead and use snowheads if you like but please don't attach this to super/mega donations. That's again same as tour ops adding a mandatory donation. Appreciate if you didn't spend my money for me thanks.

After all it is free

@PaulC1984, Denmark doesn't have mountains.

@rjs, Im aware of that, tongue in cheek I meant that side of the pond Happy

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@essex, Do hope your joking Chris, you know it'd never take off Happy

- Anyway technically your a brit, spending half your time in america and half your time in Tan... sorry Italy Toofy Grin

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Where will this £1 go? like most of these type things id be pretty sure it gets eaten up in "fees"
The director of BSS needs £100k per year so that's a hundred thousand holiday makers to sort that out.

Also it doesnt seem that "inclusive" when the British schoolboys race is held in Wengen , are these the private school boy races?
Cant see a young lad/lass from a working class background being able to afford that nor being that comfortable with a venue like that.

This smacks to me of a group wanting more money to fund their own lifestyles.

Maybe the way forward is funding the individual athletes rather than using donations to pay the salary of directors and board members expenses

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I would pay towards funding racers and paras but, skiing at MK, which is totally obsessed with freestyle, I get a twitch when freestyle is mentioned. It's probably unfair but it's how I feel because of the way other users are considered and treated as second class citizens at MK. My OH has just told me that Castleford Snozone have just employed someone as snowsports manager who is only interested in freestyle, thank goodness I don't have to ski there.

That aside, I would agree, where would my money go? I want my money to go to the athletes, not the suits behind the scenes. I also want to have a choice of where my money goes, not be told.

@MayaL, funny you say that. I think there has been a stark shift in slopes wieighting towards freestyle rather than racing. It always used to be race clubs, now it seems freestyle is the way forward. I'm not sure if its the Woodsy effect or whether freestyle is more inclusive in that any age, gender or disciplin (plankers or trays) can be on the slope at the same time.

Must admit from history it had always seemed that racers (or at least the parents) looked down their noses at freestyle and freestyle seemed to be chilled out. I've not experienced it the other way round as you suggest, but perhaps there is a change afoot.

You know it makes sense.

The funding for Freestyle skiing is only for top level Park and Pipe (Slopestyle and Half pipe) as these are possible Olympic medal winners. This comes from UK Sport. Lower down and in the 3 other freestyle events there is no funding as in most other snowsports. Snowboard also has funding for the P&P events and they did get a medal in last Olympics. UK Sport has limited funds and this money only goes to areas where medals are likely, if the money available was spread more thinly we would never get medals! You need to get your MPs to change funding principals if you want to fund any other areas of sport.
British Ski and Snowboard (BSS) deals with top level snowsports - FIS level and other high level events. They are not charged with lower development. That is the task of the Home Nations (England, Scotland and Wales). There are the clubs which run training and various academies etc but it is really difficult to find the funds for the amount of time needed on real snow to reach the top. That is why developing athletes are self funded (bank of mum and dad!) or with limited sponsorship. I know this from personally supporting my sons in snowsports - both now retired and work as instructors in winter....
Competing in snowsports is not a luxury lifestyle and is quite different from recreational ski holidays. In training it has to be alcohol-free!!!!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@PaulC1984, Skullie

we have Skymountain Very Happy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmelbjerget

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@hawkwind, British Schoolboys races are in Wengen (have been held elsewhere) because the DHO organises them we have however got discounted rates on the hotel and for the ski passes for racers, there was an existing setup for Schoolgirls and we felt that the boys were missing out, however although most racers enter via school groups it is perfectly permissible for private entries , ski racing is an expensive sport and as such it tends to be youngsters from fee paying schools that end up in the race circuit, this is actually common for many sports where because of travel and accommodation for international events only youngsters from wealthy families can afford to take part (may be different outside the uk)

DHO race camps typically cost up to £200 per day - BUT that includes all food (full board), accommodation, transfers from the airport and uplift (ski passes and if required transport from accommodation to slopes) on top of that there will be one or more coaches (depends on numbers) plus house parents to make sure the children are "well behaved" qualified first aiders and so on coaching does not just include skiing, there's fitness training, ski tuning, and in the evenings video playback of runs to see where people can improve, of course you also have to pay the pisteurs who prep the courses and often net them off to the general public and there may be fees for infrastructure use such as timing cabin etc.

This year we have 8 camps including the short 3 day one currently being held in Holland and the summer camp,so if a child went to every one in a year their parents would be looking at the best part of £10K If they do well in competitions chances are that they will end up with Britski (Delancy Under 18's and under 21's) or SSE either of which can end up representing the UK at bigger international events, which cost even more money (I've not mentioned equipment costs, clothing costs, race entry fees, insurance and so on)

In the UK you are more or less restricted to slalom courses as the artificial slopes (snow domes or carpet) are really two short for anything else however most sloes have some sort of race club where kids can get involved, but if you want to get into serious FIS style events generally that means Mountains and for UK parents at least that means money

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@D G Orf,

i think this thread can offer a lot of debate.

What the DHO does and organises is probably best left although they are part of the wider view.
Its an exclusive club and should have no need for public funding.
They have a target audience and best of luck to them , they seem to be doing very well for themselves.

It is interesting that it seems to be agreed that the Alpine sports are expensive and therefore only available at a competitive level to the wealthy.

I disagree and believe that Winter sports should and can be available to all regardless of income , colour or creed.

This is why i would agree in principal to the idea of fundraising.

I dont think anyone would begrudge Eddie or Tracey a few quid each if it meant their dream of competing at a high level and representing the majority of folk from the British Isles at an alpine discipline. I think it would create quite a stir akin to Eddie the Eagle , a tabloid hero.

However i dont think many are going to feel the same when they hear their money is going to Rupert or Henrietta , i suspect the majority would see it very differently.

So i think people will object to giving money as its all very vague where the money is actually going and who its going to.
People will assume (probably correctly) that its going to fund already very wealthy families to compete in an elitist ( GB anyways) sport.

This is where BSS and bodies like that could learn and select kids with the most ABILITY and MOTIVATION rather than do they fit the economic profile.

I believe the man/woman on the street would support that fully knowing their pound was going directly to that child to give them a chance to achieve their potential.

Perhaps i am being cynical , maybe thats exactly what this is all about according to the website.

We support young skiers and snowboarders, ensuring that financial constraints do not prevent talented athletes from reaching their sporting potential.We also provide opportunities for young people to get involved in snowsports. We want to help break down barriers that prevent more people in the UK getting involved in the exhilarating sports of skiing and snowboarding.

I just dont believe it is , its just emotive words to gather money and we will never know where or to who it goes.

For the reasons above i cant see it ever getting off the ground and thats a pity because with more inclusiveness and transparity it just may of worked.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Sorry I just don't have the slightest interest in subbing wannabe racers. I can think of 1000 causes more worthy of support.

After all it is free

I think it's a good idea in principle. We did "invent" winter sports after all.

@hawkwind, the thing is that Kandahar, DHO, Sandown Park Ski Race Club and a number of others provide race training for the younger skiers, they then (if they are good enough) go on to join junior or senior national squads, much of the work done by these organisations is voluntary or paid for by benefactors, other countries actually have it much better because the clubs get national (sometimes regional or both) funding towards developing new racers, there is nothing like that in the UK, indeed when they do go on to join the national squads the clubs loose out because it is rare for them to say "I started my training with X before joining the national squad" The national squad does not want to pay for training potential members they just want to cherry pick the best once they get to about 16.

Most of the clubs (if not all of them) who do the training at earlier ages are cash strapped due to the current economic climate and the poor performance of the pound, I know a significant percentage of the DHO's total income goes to racing and training, if we didn't do this we would actually be a wealthy club.

As to Henry vs Rupert, they are all just kids, some from well off families others from families where the parents do without in order to do something for their kids, the DHO (like all the older ski clubs) was founded by the upper classes simply because in the early days only the upper classes went skiing, these days almost anyone can and do join, often because it simply gives them some people to ski and socialise with, we've got members ranging from Lords to well known authors down to people like myself barely scratching a living, by and large about 80% of the members these days are from middle class families, I think most of the youngsters we train would fall into that group as well.

Other countries start race training their children at about 6 years old developing the promising students as they get older before they go to national squads, the UK doesn't do that and instead relies on the parents to develop the kids skills by sending them to private clubs or getting them into a foreign race training school, it should come as no surprise then that we do not do as well as other countries who do support the kids, in fact it would be better to say we have had some truly astounding results given the lack of support and backing that the alpine racers have actually received over the years.

@dogwatch, that's absolutely fine, I think people should have a free choice as to who they wish to support, the concept as described in the original post is that people booking through certain travel companies would be asked if they would like to contribute, if you don't want to you don't have to, of course if you pay a tourist tax or use a ski school whilst in a resort overseas you may well be already contributing to that countries training program, not that they would publicize that Happy

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