 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Certainly makes euro skiing seem enticing. Despite the comment "In my experience, both Americans and Europeans tend to stick to the prepared slopes, but Americans talk a good game of breaking out into the ungroomed. They tend to come back to the groomed quickly," I find that most good skiers and boarders at Whistler (which is obviously not in America, but I'm guessing by America he's probably thinking North America as well) hit pretty much all ungroomed stuff (mostly ungroomed-but-marked couloirs, bowls and tree runs, but also a fair bit of actual backcountry). Is it true that it's easy to get fresh tracks in europe? Because at Whistler you generally only get fresh tracks if you're up on one of the first chairs after a dump, or if you're up for a serious hike.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds ok to me but I would disagree about first track to a point. In Verbier, St A, Chamonix, for example, and even in the resort I was in last week, Engelberg, all the regular off-piste can be tracked in a few hours..!! quite a feat when you consider the the sizes of resort involved here. This is why guiding is so popular. They can take you to places you might not find with out a lot of work and then some. And the of course, you might take more of a risk. The Steinberg glacier off Titlis was heavenly all day after a dump but the two routes down the ice were precarious because of the lack of snow build up this winter. We even passe a group roping down which was a bit of overkill - but hey, they had clients. When I skied it last year ( Mar ) it was a much easier route find because the snow bridges had filled in.
You have to make a big effort to get first tracks just as would you get the first set of list in NA.
That said, Andermatt, which is not really a piste resort, was empty last week, and I mean empty, and when it dumped it would have been a whole new ball game to the rocky set-up prior to the new snow. I, of course, went back to Engelberg and I think I made a very good decision.
If you want a share of first tracks you have to stay away from the big resorts and it might not be easy to get Americans to come over to the smaller resorts when they have come all that way. They will want to go to Val D or somewhere where the first tracks thing is as difficult as anywhere
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That's what I would have guessed. It's the same in small NA resorts - for example, go to some remote resort in the Canadian rockies and you can get way more fresh tracks than at Whistler or Lake Louise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Doesnt mention snow quality, and certainly seems to gloss up European skiing. No mention of bad service, grumpy gits, crowded slopes, dangerous skiers etc etc
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3. is wrong, 10. doubtful. 9. depends on what you want. 7.; the N.American concept of 'in bounds' makes comparisons difficult. Otherwise, broadly correct, if simplistic. He omits that accomodation is better value in N.America, and that snow is more reliable in many resorts.
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If you want to ski with quality people like Hat Box, go west young man (or, even better, young lady)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Doesnt mention snow quality, and certainly seems to gloss up European skiing. No mention of bad service, grumpy gits, crowded slopes, dangerous skiers etc etc |
That's not my experience of European skiing. I wouldn't go anywhere that could be described in those terms, I certainly wouldn't go back there 
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ise, You must have come accross all of the above, if not at the same time. I have never wintered in the west, and i think the Alps are the finest place in the world. They are not without fault however.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| richmond wrote: |
| 3. is wrong, 10. doubtful. 9. depends on what you want. 7.; the N.American concept of 'in bounds' makes comparisons difficult. Otherwise, broadly correct, if simplistic. He omits that accomodation is better value in N.America, and that snow is more reliable in many resorts. |
I think you're confusing UK skiers with the rest of Europe. And French ski stations with the rest of Europe.
(3) describes exactly how people ski here, in fact it doesn't go far enough. My neighbours will simply go out for the day, they'll variably sledge, snowshoe and ski or just lounge about. It's the weekend, you're suppposed to relax.
(10) exactly right, talk to the Dutch or Germans, or even the French families when you're skiing next time. That's exactly what they're doing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| ise, You must have come accross all of the above, if not at the same time. I have never wintered in the west, and i think the Alps are the finest place in the world. They are not without fault however. |
If I experienced any of the above I wouldn't go back. I sold our flat in Morillon because I didn't like the direction it was heading and that was a trend that clearly started when large numbers of Brit's started to arrive.
If you're experiencing any or all of those things you've got to be skiing in the wrong place.
For example, I don't queue for lifts. Friday 30th Dec 2005 I had to queue for 10mins for the bubble lift at Saanenmoser, it's so very, very rare I can recall the date.
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I once queued 1.5 hours with my father to catch the cablecar from Zermatt to Furi. That was in the late 1960s. At St Anton they used to have a queue ticket system for the cablecar from Galzig to the Valluga. People would take a ticket and come back an hour or more later (good business for the mid-mountain cafe!).
The high-speed detachable gondola and chairlift have had remarkable effects on the efficiency of getting up mountains though, in turn, they've created very crowded runs.
[by the way, if anyone wants any more 'old fart reminiscences' just say]
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 23-01-06 11:13; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Ise - I've done lots of searching to find your posts about the grand massif. Someone advised me to look at your opinions of how you feel Morillon is changing. I couldn't find the reason for 'I didn't like the direction it was heading'. Please could you tell me more about this? Thanks. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have skied a fair amount in the US and I am obviously missing something as there seems to be a significant number of peopel over here who think itis better over there! Interesting that the same is true in the US. They prefer Europe!
Reasons I like the US skiing
1. In bounds off piste
2. Snow quality and quantity
3 Sevice
Reasons I have stopped going to the US
1 Only in bounds off piste skiing!
2 Small resorts and mountains
3 I don't like (most of) the food
4 Cost of lfts
5 Its full of Yanks 
6 Its a long way to go
Reasons I like skiing in Europe
1 Great off piste skiing
2 Large lift complexes, lots of runs and vertical
3 Easily accessable guides
4 Good food
5 Acceptable travel times
6 Not very many Yanks!
Reasons I don't like skiing in Europe
1 Lift queues (but not if you ski with a guide/instructor)
2 Crowded runs in high season
3 Increasingly unreliable snow
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The main thing about European skiing against US skiing is that the Alps are five times more interesting in terms of terrain variety and natural drama. But that's not to say that skiing in the States hasn't got a lot going for it. Hardly anyone from the UK skied in the States until the mid to late 1908s, and a series of serious snow droughts in the Alps in the late 80s/ early 90s gave American skiing a huge boost.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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richmond,
From a european mainland point of view Ponit 3 & 10 is generally correct. I cant really disagree with point 9 either as far as Austria goes
ise,
I agree with you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ise,
We chose Samoens and we're really worried it's going the same way...we tend to keep clear of Morillon because of the long lift queues...I take it you've bought in Switzerland now...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ise wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| 3. is wrong, 10. doubtful. 9. depends on what you want. 7.; the N.American concept of 'in bounds' makes comparisons difficult. Otherwise, broadly correct, if simplistic. He omits that accomodation is better value in N.America, and that snow is more reliable in many resorts. |
I think you're confusing UK skiers with the rest of Europe. And French ski stations with the rest of Europe.
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I mean some French stations of course Actually, it's some stations some of the time.
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| Freestyle wrote: |
ise,
We chose Samoens and we're really worried it's going the same way...we tend to keep clear of Morillon because of the long lift queues...I take it you've bought in Switzerland now... |
I've PM'ed you.
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Thanks Ise - didn't know how to PM before. Have sent you one back (I think!)..now I'll clear my discussion off of this thread! Ta.
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The main bowls at Chamonix (or actually Argentiere) are an extreme in the Alps in terms of being skied out quickly, because so many good skiers ski there. Normally you can find some places to make tracks several days after a dump. If you take a guide it is my experience that they can still find some weeks afterwards. Last year a guide took us to a whole big valley with only 6 tracks in it 10 days after the last snow (but we did have to walk for about 20 minutes to get to it).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stanton, I meant that (from what I've seen) in N.America, skiing is as much a family activity as it is in Europe. Similarly, I've met plenty of N.American skiers who return to the same resort time after time, as do plenty of European skiers. Apres ski and feeding on the mountain is certainly different in N.America and Europe, but for a family it's not easy to say which is best; there are so many conflicting factors when it comes to feeding and watering, and diffeent peopel have very different requirments.
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richmond,
Many Americans have family condos at ski areas.
I dont think theres any resort (I,ve got 25 yrs experience of US skiing) ) in the US where you can find cuisine or fine dining on the slopes & generally food on the slopes in the US is expensive. Genarally will not get much change if any out of $10 for a hamburger 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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richmond,
Many Americans have family condos at ski areas.
I dont think theres any resort (I,ve got 25 yrs experience of US skiing) ) in the US where you can find cuisine or fine dining on the slopes & generally food on the slopes in the US is expensive. Genarally will not get much change if any out of $10 for a hamburger
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stanton wrote: |
| I dont think theres any resort (I,ve got 25 yrs experience of US skiing) ) in the US where you can find cuisine or fine dining on the slopes |
Things are changing, in Canada there's the Eagle Eye restaurant at the top of Kicking Horse resort which is acknowledged as one of the finest mountain restaurants n the world. That is Canada however, not the US.
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| stanton wrote: |
| Genarally will not get much change if any out of $10 for a hamburger |
I think that's just America in general though, most things are just commercial operations with the main purpose of gouging you for money. The pathological inability to price things transparently is a pain as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ise wrote: |
| It's changed simply because it's now full of people from Essex as an overspill from Les Gets. The local restaurant's now full of people wearing baseball kits, with obnoxious children stuffing chips up their nose in some sort of cross between a Berni inn and a McDonald's. I don't spend time with people like this normally so I'm not going to when I go skiing either |
I hope you're trying to be funny, ise. Even if you are, this kind of crude caricature is in highly questionable taste. Try substituting the names of various ethnic groups for the word Essex, and see just how old fashioned your views sound.
And I'm not from Essex.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| ise wrote: |
| It's changed simply because it's now full of people from Essex as an overspill from Les Gets. The local restaurant's now full of people wearing baseball kits, with obnoxious children stuffing chips up their nose in some sort of cross between a Berni inn and a McDonald's. I don't spend time with people like this normally so I'm not going to when I go skiing either |
I hope you're trying to be funny, ise. |
I didn't find them even remotely funny.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| nbt wrote: |
Things are changing, in Canada there's the Eagle Eye restaurant at the top of Kicking Horse resort which is acknowledged as one of the finest mountain restaurants n the world. That is Canada however, not the US. |
I can vouch for that, That is one fine restaurant even in a town never mind been at the top of a mountain.
The 3 course meal I had there in December was the best I had all week.
*edit*Sorry if that pic is abit big, I will resize it when I get home from work.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stanton, the only 'fine dining' on mountain in USA I have come across is Krablooniks in Aspen, which is pretty fair. Mind you, there are some fairly dreary and overpriced restaurants on the slopes in Europe. My recent experience in Canada and Breckenridge is that eating on and off mountaqin is cheaper than in Europe. If you're trying to feed a family rather than have a gastronomic event, I think N.America can be as good as Europe. Mind you, a plate of sauerkraut and sausage in a cosy mountain restaurant in Kitzuhel takes a bit of beating.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick_C,
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I can vouch for that, That is one fine restaurant even in a town never mind been at the top of a mountain.
The 3 course meal I had there in December was the best I had all week.
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Must have got a lot better than on my last visit, then (2003). It was talked up a lot, then, but I didn't think it was any great shakes.
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I just love skiing, regardless of which side of the Atlantic I'm on. Out west I love the empty space, deserted lifts, and fantastically friendly, open and welcoming American culture. Over here, I love the huge resorts, massive runs, and European cultural patchwork.
They're both great. We're a privileged generation to have a choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, I'd add to your list:
Game Creek Restaurant, Vail
Lodge at Sunspot, Winter Park
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richmond,
Krablooniks is in Snowmass. I was there early December but it was closed.
When I refer to fine dining Im being a little facetious. Im just referring at being able to eat your food of a china plate with a steel knife & fork and not the
throwaway paper & plastic & hands they seem to use in US.
I remember when they opened the three awesome log lodges in Sun Valley. Really quite beautifully built, huge firplaces,chesterfield loungers, large selection kitchen only to be runied by serving the
food up on paper plates , bizzare !
Im not knocking downtown restaurants only the general state of US mountain faciilities & prices.
nbt,
Yes, thats Canada, dont forget they got a heavy French influence
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Wear The Fox Hat, if I get the chance, I shall. I skied a day in Vail last year and eat pretty well at Wildwod (I think), although it was a lot pricier than Breckenridge.
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The fine dining bit at Christine's onBlackcomb has seen us feast on some mighty good food after some mighty good steep stuff on the glacier. I'm not sure that they were quite used to our infusion of European style lunching though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That all said...
7. Ah, so that's why SZK is only selling skis with waists less than 80cm then?
9. Hmmm, it was admittedly spring break, but the bar at the base of Mount Snow seemed not entirely dissimilar to many alpine apres ski bars. The big difference was the number of yank tanks that went off the road on the way from the bar - rear wheel drive, drivers DUI'ed, etc. A whole fleet of tow trucks patrolling to get the town cars out of the ditch.
10. Maybe, but I know a reasonable number of Americans who ski the same resort, chairlift, even run day in day out.
A pretty flattering picture of European skiing though, good on him.
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