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Next Season is going to be lot more Expensive!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
LaForet wrote:
@BobinCH Have to agree with you: Even mountain prices here in CH are generally looking competitive with back home, certainly against somewhere like central Brighton. Perhaps the Valais will become the new Costa deal Sol, with Brits wintering here because it’s cheaper …..


Shhh don’t alert @Weathercam
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
LaForet wrote:
That France has more usable agricultural land doesn’t invalidate their success in self-sufficiency. My point is that Brits love to bash the French for high taxes but there’s an upside that no amount of ‘whatabout-ery’ can divert from. Frankly, I’d happily pay higher taxes if we could cut our agricultural imports to ‘just’ 25%, see young people have some chance of getting their own home, see elderly people not have to live in isolated poverty, see youngsters get further education skills suited to the 21st century without a £60K debt, get cancer patients treated earlier than 18 months from diagnosis, see investments in infrastructure other than HS2 and Crossrail, see us able to cope with climate change and global heating, make up the 20,000 reduction in police officers, or the 2,500 reduction in GPs (when we were promised 6,000 more), and the rest. This won’t come through tax cuts. Not ever. But that’s all that’s on offer from the current crop of dinosaur ideologues in the Tory Elite - it won’t work, and our children and grandchildren are the ones who will pay the price.


Of course having twice the agricultural land has the principle effect of producing twice as much food as the UK can, French average wheat yields are a tonne to the HA less than the UK, average milk yield per cow is over a 1000 litres higher in the UK, so UK farmers are doing their best to feed the country
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
LaForet wrote:
Frankly, I’d happily pay higher taxes


You wouldn't be poncing off on ski and other nice foreign holidays if you paid French levels of taxes. Or at best you'd spend a week 6 to a studio in Val Fauché like the French do

LaForet wrote:

if we could cut our agricultural imports to ‘just’ 25%,


You won't do that by raising taxes. You would need to increase the UK growing season and land area relative to the population.

You also have a totally unrealistic image of France.
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@davidof, A quick Google shows the overall income tax in France is not disimilar to the UK - are there other taxes that bump it up?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
[quote="MorningGory"]@davidof, A quick Google shows the overall income tax in France is not disimilar to the UK - are there other taxes that bump it up?[/quote

Yes their social taxes are much higher, I saw an international comparison the other day france was the second highest in the developed world. ]
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stanton wrote:
Will Brits be able to afford to go on Winter Sports Holidays this season or any Holidays ??




http://youtube.com/v/BtysOZE_7Tg


http://youtube.com/v/hyVt6nxU62I


Any EVERYTHING is Ski Areas will be WAY more expensive next season....

For example ....News from SWITZERLAND

Households will have a 25% increase so Businesess (Hotels, Bars, Resturants, Wintersports Infra) will be a lot more !!

https://www.blick.ch/politik/explodierende-preise-so-viel-teurer-wird-die-stromrechnung-naechstes-jahr-id17819990.html?

FRANCE

EDF’s announcement today, French power prices for 2023 are trading €900/MWH with winter prices above €1.500/MWH (or an eye-popping 30X the 5-yr average price).

https://twitter.com/Jkylebass/status/1562799846758555649


AUSTRIA

Very Low Water in Rivers means Less Electricit can be produced from Hydro..

Less Water means Nuclear Power Plants have to reduce output becuase of lack of water for Cooling...

https://mobile.twitter.com/chri_gru/status/1561764117987225600


Brits Dont forget if you do make it this season dont forget to TIP your staff we take anything, Crypto, Gold,Silver, Euros, Dollar ,Swiss Fancs anything but Pound Sterling!! Happy
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
MorningGory wrote:
@davidof, A quick Google shows the overall income tax in France is not disimilar to the UK - are there other taxes that bump it up?


Payroll taxes are eye wateringly high although Pres. Macron started to prune these and other obstacles to hiring staff. Social insurance is much higher (as said above). Overall it adds up to about 57-58% of GDP going into the state. You'd think you'd get a gold plated state system for that but the money seemingly goes into adding layer upon layer of senseless bureaucracy.

As a senior software developer I can't afford a week's family ski holiday during school holidays. We only ski because we are near the mountains and ski in second or third tier resorts.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
stanton wrote:
Brits Dont forget if you do make it this season dont forget to TIP your staff we take anything, Crypto, Gold,Silver, Euros, Dollar ,Swiss Fancs anything but Pound Sterling!! Happy


On the scrounge again stanton!

Please don't forget the "Anti-Tipping Movement"

Dutch gas prices second highest in Europe ..... https://nltimes.nl/2022/07/27/dutch-gas-prices-second-highest-europe

Looks like you won't be able to fill your taxi with petrol enough to get to Austria.

No-one is going to use taxis any more, especially in St Anton ski resort. Expensive rides, disinterested drivers, cost effective alternatives. Bus/Rail from Stuben to Zurich Airport - 17.5 Euros per person. Taxi ride from St Anton to Stuben 40 Euros for 2 passengers. Saves on £400 Car Hire, Petrol, Austrian Vignette, Fully comp Insurance, hassle. Fly to Zurich is quite inexpensive, use Avios, go low season, don't take the kids, don't have ski lessons, choose lift passes with care if you don't need full area pass, .... all these cost cutting options will easily reduce the price of a ski holiday. Reduce unnecessary add-ons, maybe only one bottle of wine with dinner rather than two, possibly only a couple of beer stops on the mountain, buy lunch from the bakery rather than expensive lunch options. The actual losers will be the rip-off merchants, .... ski school, ski hire, bars, restaurants, shopping, and of course, taxi drivers.
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Quote:

Reduce unnecessary add-ons, maybe only one bottle of wine with dinner rather than two,



Oh I say! Limits, dear boy, limits.
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stanton wrote:
Brits Dont forget if you do make it this season dont forget to TIP your staff we take anything, Crypto, Gold,Silver, Euros, Dollar ,Swiss Fancs anything but Pound Sterling!! Happy


My tip - get a job that pays well enough so you don't have to scrounge from tourists.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
robs1 wrote:
LaForet wrote:
That France has more usable agricultural land doesn’t invalidate their success in self-sufficiency. My point is that Brits love to bash the French for high taxes but there’s an upside that no amount of ‘whatabout-ery’ can divert from. Frankly, I’d happily pay higher taxes if we could cut our agricultural imports to ‘just’ 25%, see young people have some chance of getting their own home, see elderly people not have to live in isolated poverty, see youngsters get further education skills suited to the 21st century without a £60K debt, get cancer patients treated earlier than 18 months from diagnosis, see investments in infrastructure other than HS2 and Crossrail, see us able to cope with climate change and global heating, make up the 20,000 reduction in police officers, or the 2,500 reduction in GPs (when we were promised 6,000 more), and the rest. This won’t come through tax cuts. Not ever. But that’s all that’s on offer from the current crop of dinosaur ideologues in the Tory Elite - it won’t work, and our children and grandchildren are the ones who will pay the price.


Of course having twice the agricultural land has the principle effect of producing twice as much food as the UK can, French average wheat yields are a tonne to the HA less than the UK, average milk yield per cow is over a 1000 litres higher in the UK, so UK farmers are doing their best to feed the country

I think you're answering a point that I'm not making: UK farmers are doing a great job, and I've never suggested that the UK can be 100% self-sufficient in agriculture, like France. Just that we could do a lot better than 40% of our agricultural goods being imported. Let alone the existential danger of us importing close to 100% of the grain for the next year's harvest (Germany and Russian gas should have taught us that such reliance on imports for strategic resources needs addressing). UK farmers have been betrayed by a political party that once was their champion. There's nothing like any sort of long-term agricultural strategy: UK farming needs investment and a solid foundation for planning over decades. Not a 40% shortfall in the replacement for EU investment; foreign agri workers having to spend £5K just to apply to work here; and Truss wittering on about British cheeses.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've just come back from close to a month in Switzerland: it turned out to be cheaper than being at home in the UK.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@LaForet, I thought we were 'self-sufficient' in grains, in fact exporting a huge amount ??
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
We export stuff as a cash crop, but then we need to import the grain for the following year's crop. You can say this is OK in purely economic terms - where farmers grow mainly for export, because it's more profitable than selling to the domestic market. But if nothing else, it's a serious strategic risk: in a crisis, we'd be selling all our grain abroad but be unable to source the grain for the next year's crop (or have to pay through the nose for it thanks to demand elsewhere).

But then, what are the odds of a sudden crisis causing a global demand for a primary resource that produces massive shortages and price hikes?

Addendum: I suppose what I'm saying here is that we seem to be having a more informed and serious discussion of the topic of strategic policies for food sufficiency on a skiing forum, than the government itself is. NFU criticism I've read is that basically it's the usual Tory laissez-faire Brexit philosophy of doing nothing and just waiting to see how things pan out in a free market. They'll deal with the issue if it happens. I for one look to any government to do at least some strategic planning and public policy debate, even if the options are complicated and there's no simple single solution. And I think that after the pandemic and in the middle of a massive energy/cost of living crisis, the majrity of voters want the government to act strategically as well. ANd would be prepared to countenance more-than-usually dramatic measures. But they seem trapped in a 1970s time time warp of Thatcherite nostalgia, inaction and lack of effective policies.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 30-08-22 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Commodity prices generally dropping quite sharply now, thankfully.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
LaForet wrote:
We export stuff as a cash crop, but then we need to import the grain for the following year's crop. You can say this is OK in purely economic terms - where farmers grow mainly for export, because it's more profitable than selling to the domestic market. But if nothing else, it's a serious strategic risk: in a crisis, we'd be selling all our grain abroad but be unable to source the grain for the next year's crop (or have to pay through the nose for it thanks to demand elsewhere).

But then, what are the odds of a sudden crisis causing a global demand for a primary resource that produces massive shortages and price hikes?


We export certain grades of grain that we have surplus of and we import certain other types of grain that we are short of. Occasionally price differentials will also cause some imports and exports.
Due to our climate we can struggle to grow enough group 1 bread making wheats which are required to have a higher level of protein and hagberg falling number, in wet harvests the HFN can be very poor, millers import wheat to blend with ours to the spec they require, these wheats are usually lower yielding than what are known as feed wheats so require a premium to make them worth growing, often they are enough and so many farmers wont grow them, millers will also import group 1 if it's cheaper and in a surplus year will use dubious tactics to reject loads if forward bought at a higher price than the spot market. A lot of the wheat we export are lower grade biscuit, flour or feed wheats for markets that want them, we also export quite a bit of barley for malting into markets that require certain grades that we dont use, some maltsters want higher N levels than others.
It's far more complex than it appears but basically we have a cereal surplus in the uk
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks @robs1, it is good to know there is a Snowhead knowledgeable about this as about most things. And for improving my general knowledge now I looked up Hagberg Falling Number.

So we are not actually short of grain, just make the wrong sort. Presumably there is some flexibility to grow other types if the price incentive was there (and a year's notice). And if things got tight we could presumably feed people with what we've got, my guess is that soda bread isn't as picky as yeast-risen bread about the flour used (certainly that has been my domestic experience).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
When I was young (it was a long time ago) I remember being told that we couldn't grow wheat in the north of England at all and that it was only grown in the south.

Anyway back to the original topic.

I'm not sure this season is going to be much more expensive after all.

A season's lift pass in Les Arcs will be a 100€ or so less this year, but this will be countered by increased ferry charges.
Fuel prices have been pegged a bit in France so getting there will cost a bit more, but a managable amount more.
Food will be more expensive, but it will be in the UK as well
I've already paid the Coprop fees so I've paid for the heating of the apartment whether I go or not so I might as well go to France and not heat the house saving some money.
I'll be wearing warm clothing more of the time.
I'll save money by not going to the climbing wall.

I might as well spend as much time out in the Alps skiing as sitting at home doing nothing.

Now, how do I get around the 90 day rule.
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[

Now, how do I get around the 90 day rule.[/quote]

Buy a long term visitor visa for 6 or 12 months if your circumstances allow?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
johnE wrote:

Fuel prices have been pegged a bit in France so getting there will cost a bit more, but a managable amount more.

I've already paid the Coprop fees so I've paid for the heating of the apartment whether I go or not so I might as well go to France and not heat the house saving some money.


Petrol looks about the same. 155p in the UK, 1.75euros in France. Diesel is surprisingly around 2euros/litre still. So I think the only people getting pegged are the French Happy.

I know some copros have a force majeur clause if energy prices increase dramatically. Hopefully that won't happen.

Yet to be seen what effort ski areas have to make this autumn - all enterprises are supposed to be looking at around 10% energy savings. Maybe a bit less pre-season snowmaking? Les Arcs should be a good bet in that case due to the altitude. Maybe leaving more lifts out of service at off peak times. That said they are really looking for energy savings from 18h-21h, not during the day so ski areas may largely be saved.

GBP at 1.16 today to the EUR. Inflation at 18% by the winter is also going to have an impact.
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j b wrote:
Thanks @robs1, it is good to know there is a Snowhead knowledgeable about this as about most things. And for improving my general knowledge now I looked up Hagberg Falling Number.

So we are not actually short of grain, just make the wrong sort. Presumably there is some flexibility to grow other types if the price incentive was there (and a year's notice). And if things got tight we could presumably feed people with what we've got, my guess is that soda bread isn't as picky as yeast-risen bread about the flour used (certainly that has been my domestic experience).


Growing milling wheat requires extra nitrogen to lift the protein with the cost of N going up by around 3 to 4 times its a difficult decision, we dont grow group ones but groups three or four some of which can be used for biscuit wheat and speciality flours, but yes at a pinch any wheat can be used for bread, just wouldnt be the bread we like, but better than starving
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
davidof wrote:
johnE wrote:

Fuel prices have been pegged a bit in France so getting there will cost a bit more, but a managable amount more.

I've already paid the Coprop fees so I've paid for the heating of the apartment whether I go or not so I might as well go to France and not heat the house saving some money.


Petrol looks about the same. 155p in the UK, 1.75euros in France. Diesel is surprisingly around 2euros/litre still. So I think the only people getting pegged are the French Happy.

I know some copros have a force majeur clause if energy prices increase dramatically. Hopefully that won't happen.

Yet to be seen what effort ski areas have to make this autumn - all enterprises are supposed to be looking at around 10% energy savings. Maybe a bit less pre-season snowmaking? Les Arcs should be a good bet in that case due to the altitude. Maybe leaving more lifts out of service at off peak times. That said they are really looking for energy savings from 18h-21h, not during the day so ski areas may largely be saved.

GBP at 1.16 today to the EUR. Inflation at 18% by the winter is also going to have an impact.


Do French companies offer contracts at set prices for electric and gas as we have in the UK, I was lucky and renewed our two business contracts july 2021 at 16.5 P a unit for three years, it was pretty obvious at the beginning of this year what was the general trend for energy prices I dont know why more didnt renew before they went crazy especially big users .

On the price of lift passes we had an email about early renewals for mont blanc unlimited year passes at just over 1500 euros for a couple which is not that much more for last seasons season pass, no mention of the season pass price for some reason, have booked an apartment for five weeks at decent price including a chunnel flexiplus pass, that is about 12 quid more than last time for the return pass, nothing too frightening so far
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@robs1, Paradiski season pass for me and my wife are 584€ each. I cannot really see any justification for selling ski passes cheeper to over 65s but they do.
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johnE wrote:
@robs1, Paradiski season pass for me and my wife are 584€ each. I cannot really see any justification for selling ski passes cheeper to over 65s but they do.


Only 3 more seasons and I will qualify for the over 65.
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We’re hearing all about the huge energy price rises happening in Europe all the way down here in Australia. Perhaps there will be a portion of households who will not be able to afford a snow holiday this year?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@johnE, pension vs salaried income? Encouraging those perhaps increasingly reluctant?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
'I cannot really see any justification for selling ski passes cheaper to over 65s, but they do.'

Possibly because as likely retirees, they'd come and ski on a discounted ticket when they otherwise wouldn't. Plus, they'd do so at otherwise quiet times when numbers are low, outside the school holidays, supporting local businesses through the leaner weeks.

Addendum: And retirees who can afford to ski a season are probably also higher spenders than a family on an annual week's ski trip.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 31-08-22 10:33; edited 1 time in total
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
sbooker wrote:
We’re hearing all about the huge energy price rises happening in Europe all the way down here in Australia. Perhaps there will be a portion of households who will not be able to afford a snow holiday this year?

It's an interesting one because it's hard to tell when things will really bite, for who and for how long. We have had a zombie government over the summer and the you might suppose Truss will put on the after burners to sort things out when she takes the reins. Trouble is she's not fit to lace Thatchers or indeed Blairs boots and the Conservative Party have sacked or alienated anyone with anything useful to give. Plus of course some/many things are outside her control. So unless I am wrong or something drastically changes the winter will be extremely hard and bitter. And yes, you would think skiing holidays would be one of the first things to go.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I certainly don't expect to ski as much as I usually do (or did pre-Pandemic at least). Sad
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Layne,
Here’s hoping some of the pressure is taken off so there are not more working families struggling to put a roof over their head and food on the table.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
LaForet wrote:
... as likely retirees, they'd come and ski on a discounted ticket when they otherwise wouldn't. Plus, they'd do so at otherwise quiet times when numbers are low, outside the school holidays, supporting local businesses through the leaner weeks.
Also they assume they're not going to do much. One of my snowboarding buddies is 74 and he tells me that in the US/ Canada they've been gradually raising the age at which it is free/ cheaper to ski. You get a discount at WB (and the pleasure of the ticket seller doing a double-take at the birthday in his ID), but that's as good as it gets. Of course he's a ripper, and you can't tell age when someone's wrapped up. That can have funny results at times.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
robs1 wrote:



Do French companies offer contracts at set prices for electric and gas as we have in the UKr


there are but as the govt. has capped the price rises it doesn't matter as much.

The EU is also looking at decoupling the price of electricity from gas I believe.

The boss of EDF was in a conference yesterday explaining the reason for all the reactors being off line, it was because the govt told them to shut 14 nuclear plants so they had begun to run down the older reactors in anticipation of them closing.

"Oh no we didn't", claimed the govt. We then get the TV companies showing non stop footage of Pres. Macron from 2017 saying he's going to get France out of nuclear, shut 14 reactors by 2035 and run the country on wind. And you guys think Liz Truss is bad.


http://youtube.com/v/vhmKuRkwMwk

Interestingly he was going bald back then, he now has a nice new rug of hair on top. So that's alright then.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
... "Oh no we didn't", claimed the govt. We then get the TV companies showing non stop footage of Pres. Macron from 2017 saying he's going to get France out of nuclear, shut 14 reactors by 2035 and run the country on wind. And you guys think Liz Truss is bad. ...
I think it was Cameron who "shut down" what he described as the UK's "green c*ap", not Truss.

You seem to be suggesting that Johnson/ Truss are making a better fist of the energy thing in the UK than France is. Do you have any actual evidence for that?

The issue isn't "is Macron more competent than Truss", it's "is Macron less fascist than Le Pen".
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@philwig, must say that I wouldn't have believed that the first resort to offer me a completely free pass would be the 3V. Shocked
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Hurtle, Les Arcs have offered over 75's a free ski pass for several years (you do pay a small sum for the actual plastic bit - 10 euros ?)
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philwig wrote:


You seem to be suggesting that Johnson/ Truss are making a better fist of the energy thing in the UK than France is. Do you have any actual evidence for that?

The issue isn't "is Macron more competent than Truss", it's "is Macron less fascist than Le Pen".


I'm suggesting that Macron isn't much good really.

Suggesting cutting 50% of an energy supply where the country is a world leader, an exporter of both the technology and product and an energy source that doesn't produce huge amounts of greenhouse gasses is madness. Fortunately only one reactor has been shut but the boss of EDF says the current issues with over half of generating capacity being off line as we go into an energy crunch is a consequence of the direction of travel outlined by the government. I'm not sure BoJo has done anything as daft, indeed the UK has recognized that is is probably light on base load and is constructing new plants. Whoever ordered those - Brown? Cameron? Looks far sighted in comparison.

At the same time Macron was suggesting winding down the French nuclear industry he was jacking up green taxes which sparked of 18months of troubles with the Yellow Vests. I don't recall the UK having the same levels of civil unrest.

As for who is the bigger fascist - you'd have to define what you mean by that really. It sounds like one of those words people throw about on the Interwebs without really knowing what they mean but I remind you it was Macron that locked everyone up for 2 months with people only allowed out within 1km of their house and then for a maximum of 1 hour per day. As a French politician noted the other day, the police were pretty efficient at fining people then but can't stop a few rubber boats leaving the coast for the UK. It was Macron that fired 15,000 nurses who refused covid jabs and refuses to rehire them so that hospitals are now chronically understaffed, it was Macron who fired fire fighters who refused covid jabs so that when a series of devastating forest fires hit France this summer the fire service was understaffed. So I think he has pretty good "fascist" credentials.

I didn't vote for Le Pen because although she correctly identified last autumn that cost of living was going to be the most important issue of 2022 her economic program would not have worked.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@davidof, Are EDF publishing a profile for the recovery of the lost nuclear generating capacity?

Currently, it looks like France is missing 18GW of nuclear generation compared with this time last year. I hope it is going to recover otherwise its going to be a messy winter as spare capacity around Europe reduces as the weather cools.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Doom and gloom from The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/advice/energy-crisis-make-ski-holiday-unaffordable/

Luckily we go DIY as a family to ski so not fussed about après or anything else. And I'd imagine resorts pulling out the stops for their most lucrative weeks.

I tell the kids to enjoy skiing while they can. First COVID, now energy and climate change in the background. As resorts shut due to lack of snow, prices in higher ones will rocket (hopefully this will take a while and kids will be out of school!). Supply and demand will dictate.

Reckon the only skiing the kids will do when they are adults will be on water - unless that's all dried up......
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It's a good article though - I follow the author on Twitter and she had reached out for opinion. I do think skiing could be at a watershed moment.
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davidof wrote:
As for who is the bigger fascist - you'd have to define what you mean by that really. ... I didn't vote for Le Pen because although she correctly identified last autumn that cost of living was going to be the most important issue of 2022 her economic program would not have worked.
Enough said.
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