 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Timc looks to me like it was a Swiss registered vehicle. OP was billed in CHF by Hertz.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Timc, The French don't pursue drivers of UK registered cars as they have no idea who they are or own is the registered keeper as there is currently no mechanism for them to get these details. There was a case a few years ago of a European country using a UK private parking company to pursue the fine. The parking company abused their ability to obtain details from the DVLA and then tried to collect the foreign fine. The DVLA came down hard on them as their license only covered them to obtain details for private parking infringements in the UK.
The difference in this case is they have the details of the hirer from the rental company so do have something to pursue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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On the subject of parking companies and the DVLA, has anyone tried to have their details removed from 'public\corporate' view ? I keep meaning to write and make the request but have not got around to it.
I don't see why companies should have access to my personal information without my permission.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Gaza, not ideal. I wonder how long before the argument is applied to other hmgov data. ANPR ?
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You've broken the law so pay the fine.
You broke the law in France so you are under their legal jurisdiction so any UK court rulings about "I never received it" or "It wasn't sent properly" are meaningless.
Whilst you are hardly likely to be the subject of a European arrest warrant or an entry on the Schengen Information System I think that Hertz are likely to either refuse to hire you a vehicle, circulate your details around the hire company community or pass your credit card details to the French police who will just remove the money. Good luck fighting them if they do that....
On the subject of DVLA releasing data...you've probably agree to this when applying for, or renewing, a driving licence or taxing a car. It'll be buried in the T&C's somewhere...
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My understanding is that if you rent a car, the car rental company will pass you address on to French authorities and then they will be able to pursue the fine and debt.
If you drive your own car - at the moment - dvla won't give the french authorities the driver's address and therefore they are unable t pursue the fine and debt. Unless the same car is physically stopped by the police on a return visit for speeding and then it might all catch up with the driver.
I did read that, assuming there is no brexit, that next year the authorities will start cooperating over driver details. so watch out for cameras.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurdy wrote: |
You've broken the law so pay the fine.
You broke the law in France so you are under their legal jurisdiction so any UK court rulings about "I never received it" or "It wasn't sent properly" are meaningless.
Whilst you are hardly likely to be the subject of a European arrest warrant or an entry on the Schengen Information System I think that Hertz are likely to either refuse to hire you a vehicle, circulate your details around the hire company community or pass your credit card details to the French police who will just remove the money. Good luck fighting them if they do that....
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I cant pay the fine until i receive the fine
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I received a similar love note from Avis this year - 45CHF Admin 3CHF VAT plus the actual prosecution note from the French authorities. Whilst I thought about ignoring fine the admin fee was around the level of the fine. I thought that the most likely outcome would be that if I ignored the fine, Avis would continue write to me and charge me the fee for the pleasure so opted to pay the fine.
Rich
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I got one of these from Avis but never heard from the police thus never paid any fine.
I've since rented dozens of times from Avis, Hertz and numerous others without problem.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| wasley wrote: |
I cant pay the fine until i receive the fine |
It took about 4 weeks to arrive at my house after the letter from Hertz, but you should still have plenty of time to pay the minimum as they will reset the date when the notice is issued to your name rather than the rental company
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You know it makes sense.
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| wasley wrote: |
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Perhaps they did, and the 48€ was the fine plus a 3€ admin charge. |
No it was just the Admin fee.... 45CHF Admin 3CHF VAT |
Had similar, my advice is pay up. You sign your life away with the hire company. If you dont' pay then good chance the police will go back to hire company saying you haven't paid, they will send you reminder and another bill that they will take straight off the credit card you gave them. Take the chance if you want.
If you were driving your won car I would throw in bin. In the past when driving around France and staying Paris i took pleasure in amassing speeding and parking tickets, never paid any. Hire car is different....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
i took pleasure in amassing speeding and parking tickets
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I understand that Nigerian diplomats in London behave in much the same way.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
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i took pleasure in amassing speeding and parking tickets
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I understand that Nigerian diplomats in London behave in much the same way. |
Why just Nigerian?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Its American diplomatic policy not to pay.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Why just Nigerian?
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Back in the day when I was on top of such insignificant facts the Nigerian Mission was the worst offender....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Why just Nigerian?
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Back in the day when I was on top of such insignificant facts the Nigerian Mission was the worst offender.... |
Officially there is £99m, yes £99m owing by embassies for the congestion charge....poor showing by Nigeria, slipped to 3rd. Bloody hell, we only owe £65, very disappointed Irishman.......
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt.pdf
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There you go...America at number one. A few years ago I was up for a job that included getting them to pay...thankfully I didn't get it!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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if irc the Yanks argument is that the Congestion charge is a tax not a toll. If it was a toll they would pay it......
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@boredsurfin, correct
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Diplomats all around the world benefit from concessions about taxes, tolls etc. It's swings and roundabouts.
I have friends overseas working for HMG who are not required to pay the local vehicle tax, toll road fees or pay certain taxes at hotels etc (whether on official business or private).
If they are stopped for speeding then they would have had to pay any fine as the FCO deem such offences to be "reasonable" as they would have been at fault and speeding is also an offence in the UK.
The FCO are pretty strict when it comes to UK diplomats committing offences overseas and do strip people of their diplomatic immunity if they have committed offences and the local Police make a request to prosecute.
I am assuming that the original poster is not a diplomat though!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This was in the Times yesterday.
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More than half a million British motorists will face fines for speeding in Europe even though British police are powerless to pursue continental drivers for the same offence in this country.
A quirk of European Union law will create a “one-way” justice system that penalises British drivers in countries including France, the Netherlands and Belgium but not those breaking motoring laws in the UK.
The directive will be introduced for British drivers by the start of May, just before millions of families embark on summer holidays to the continent.
Under the reforms, EU governments are given automatic access to vehicle ownership records held by other countries, which are then used to prosecute offences carried out in foreign-registered cars.
In at least 14 EU countries, including France, the vehicle owner is ultimately liable for fines, irrespective of whether they were behind the wheel. In the UK, liability lies with the individual driver, not the registered keeper.
The Department for Transport confirmed last night that this meant that police would not use the directive to fine drivers from the EU, even though well over 23,000 foreign-registered vehicles escape speeding fines each year, depriving the Treasury of at least £2.3 million.
The reforms are being put to extensive use by other European countries. An estimated half a million motorists a year from the UK could face prosecution for driving offences in France alone. Fines of up to €750 can be issued for breaking speed limits by more than 31mph.
The rules were introduced in 2015 across much of the EU, although the UK, Ireland and Denmark were given a two-year exemption. They must now be brought in by May 7, despite Britain’s vote to leave the EU, because the UK is forced to implement European policy until Brexit is enacted. It means that the rules could be in force for two years.
Previously, British offenders were usually only caught if they were in a hire car or were pulled over by police.
The EU said that identification of the driver was not a “pre-condition” to a fine in Austria, Belgium, Spain, France, Netherlands, Ireland, Italy, Croatia and Hungary, among others, meaning British car owners could be fined.
The Department for Transport said: “While the UK is still a member of the EU, we are obliged to bring in rules on cross-border enforcement. Once we have left the EU, our parliament will have the power to amend the law.”
How will it work?
Countries such as France will send a fine through the post to British car owners in the same way as they do for their own citizens when they are caught speeding. According to the EU, it was used to pursue motorists in other countries 2 million times in 2015, when it was first introduced. The EU has left it open to individual states to decide whether to use their court systems to chase fines imposed by another country. The DfT confirmed that British courts would not be used in this way.
Will I have to pay?
There will be no immediate sanction for British drivers ignoring an EU-imposed fine but if you drive in the country where you committed the offence, you could be pulled over and subject to the fine and further punishment for ignoring the penalty.
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My highlighting.
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Why just Nigerian?
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Back in the day when I was on top of such insignificant facts the Nigerian Mission was the worst offender.... |
Officially there is £99m, yes £99m owing by embassies for the congestion charge....poor showing by Nigeria, slipped to 3rd. Bloody hell, we only owe £65, very disappointed Irishman.......
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt.pdf |
I see this is not entirely factual, as the amounts owing include PCNS. See the Swiss outstanding of £65
Secondly when the US embassy is moved to outside the zone I am sure it will drop.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is that a quirk of European Union law? or a quirk of roughly half of EU countries having a slightly different law to UK? or a quirk of UK law?
If it's one way, it's the UK that's slacking.
Depends on how pro/anti EU you are I spose.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@andy, Yup. Not convinced on this whole EU thing, we should have a vote on whether to stay in or leave, good idea?
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Doesn't look like it has anything to do with the EU, rather the UK not being bothered.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'd pay the fine. The time that will be wasted appealing, waiting etc and the stress it will cause - if costed properly (how much do you value your time and sanity?) will far outweigh the $4o odd Euros eventually avoided. Even if that is the end result. Better to spend the time planning your next much needed ski holiday.
The risk also exists that you become a Brexit pawn and your freedom/entry to French ski resorts is bargained away by TM in return for "freely" traded garlic or onions or something 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| suec wrote: |
I'd pay the fine. The time that will be wasted appealing, waiting etc and the stress it will cause - if costed properly (how much do you value your time and sanity?) will far outweigh the $4o odd Euros eventually avoided. Even if that is the end result. Better to spend the time planning your next much needed ski holiday.
The risk also exists that you become a Brexit pawn and your freedom/entry to French ski resorts is bargained away by TM in return for "freely" traded garlic or onions or something |
Got a fine last year in France for a hire car out of Geneva. I paid that as know the Swiss are so efficient there would be armed police waiting the next time I flew in if it wasn't paid, also a hire car so they have your CC details, not worth it. However if driving my own car I would bin a French speeding notice in the post,
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Poster: A snowHead
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I never ended up receiving the Fine from the Swiss traffic authorities.But still had to pay the Hertz Admin fee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I revived this thread because there is some relevant new information.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've had a couple of these in the past 12 months. Europcar haven't charged me any admin fees but I have received the paperwork at my UK address. It gives you the discount period from when they issue the fine paperwork, not from the date of the offence.
I've paid the fines on-line... only 45 euros as both were only very slightly over the limit. Out of interest, you don't get the '10% plus a bit' margin in France. One of mine was for 137km/h.
Of further interest is the cops at the side of the road will chase you if you are nicked, or you get away with it. They will rarely chase you for a 45 euro fine.
I've now bought a Tomtom and it has the French speed camera database in it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had a fine from Hertz GE in 2001 before I lived out here. It was for doing 84 on the Quai de Mont Blanc where it changes from a 60 to a 50. It took a while to reach me, and I ended up settling for CHF 1,010- Which seemed a lot, but having read that fines can be passed from the City of Ge to the Canton of Ge and the highway police, and you can be fined by all 3 for the same offence, and your papers can be retained next time you enter CH if the fine remains unpaid, coughing up a thousand Swiss seemed the least of the unpalatable options.
As yours in France, it's not so draconian, on the back of the French fine, or sometimes on a separate sheet depending upon the severity of the offence is an amende number.
You can just go to amendes.gouv.fr (which is in English if your isp in in UK) to pay it even if you have not yet received it.
You will get it at some point, but it is up to you whether or not you pay it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| bar shaker wrote: |
I've now bought a Tomtom and it has the French speed camera database in it. |
IRC, possession, let alone use of these is an offence when driving in France
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@jtr, there is an agreement that the alerts are safety warnings. Tom tom doesnt mention cameras in france
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That's right. TomTom don't show the exact location of the cameras, they just give a perfectly legal warning that a camera is present somewhere over a 2 or 3 km stretch, which roughly corresponds to the roadside "secours" signposting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@holidayloverxx, Thanks for the correction
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| Ingemar_Skidmark wrote: |
| That's right. TomTom don't show the exact location of the cameras, they just give a perfectly legal warning that a camera is present somewhere over a 2 or 3 km stretch, which roughly corresponds to the roadside "secours" signposting. |
It probably shows 1-2km before the radar sign on the motorway and around 500m on urban roads.
As Ingemar says.
It has flagged some cameras in tunnels that I have still yet to see (like the one at Moutiers), but all the locals go slow until 3/4s of the way through, so it must be there. It is also good at showing live congestion/live accidents and road works and suggesting alternatives. Google Maps on your phone is the king of interactive routing and the two of them nearly always agree. If they don't, we go with Google's advice.
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FAQ
I was also caught by a camera near Taninges; 30 euro to 
