Skiier considering trying boarding

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ooh, not sure they'll stand for that... Actually they will stand for it because you just can't sit down in pants that tight.

Toofy Grin

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@bigtuboflard, just remember, lessons, boot fitter, merino wool pants. In that order. You'll be grand.

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Been fun reading this, I'll try not to bite at some of the more leading comments Smile

Just want to chip in with a few thoughts.

Falling. Everyone seems to be of the opinion that you spend 75% of your time on your ass (or in the process of falling onto it) while learning snowboarding. This is rubbish and this stereotype really needs updating! I've just taught a lady from zero to riding linked turns on blue pistes over 6 hours in 3 days and she fell exactly 3 times. Sitting down all the time? No - first thing I did was teach her how to put her bindings on standing up.

If you're falling all the time then you've probably not spent enough time on the basic sideslips/traverses with a good body position, or you're trying your first turns on terrain that's too steep. There's just no reason to be slamming down all the time. Even if you can take it physically, if you're falling that often then something is going wrong.

Having said that - butt pads. Yes - should be standard equipment for the first weeks imo - for the confidence if nothing else. Wrist guards - also good - get them so that they go over the gloves and they're a lot easier to deal with. In my experience, wrist guards are more useful when you've got it 95% of the time, and you pick up your speed, then you hit that 5% where you've really not got it... There's likely (not an absolute certainty!) to be one or two falls in the first few weeks, and you'll be glad of the protection.

Upper body rotation - with me it's OK when controlled. Like ski3 says, rotating the shoulders rocks your body from toes to heels, like Richard says, there's better ways to do it. Not going to pretend to be the authority here, but I'm very happy to teach a little bit of upper body rotation in combination with foot pedalling and foot/knee steering - I find it really helps with getting the board onto the new edge and lateral body movements.

And to echo what everyone else says, when the snow is good, snowboarding's where it's at. Skiing's fun and all that, but it's just not snowboarding powder is it?

One thing I really like about having both disciplines is that because my riding is better then my skiing, I get better at skiing much more quickly. Every time I go out on skiing and work on my body position or reducing my stem then I can feel the improvement, whereas to improve my snowboarding nowadays takes a lot more effort and (expensive!) input from coaches. It's great to be able to have that decision - to be able to go out for a quick fix of skiing when you're just over riding for the moment. I'm sure it'll work in reverse too Smile

After all it is free

With appropriate terrain, progression, instruction and equipment... not necessarily - no. Yes, you're going to get some more falls than on skis, because it's easier to balance on 2 edges than one, and yes, snowboarders do tend to sit down when they need a break (although they don't need to once they've learnt a basic turn). But you should be able to be taught fairly quickly to stay balanced on each edge, and once you've got that, with appropriate progression there's nothing to say that snowboarders have to fall to learn.

Again, not saying that it ain't gonna happen - I'm very happy when someone turns up with bum pads. But I feel that the sterotype of snowboarders just falling everywhere is outdated. If beginners are catching edges frequently, it sounds to me like they're progressing too quickly.

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But you're talking about a perfect learning curve, I get that and what you say makes logical sense.

I'm just saying that the reality isn't always quite like that!

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Whether under or over 35, snow boarding is just undignified. 😉

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I agree that falling isn't some random weird thing which happens, it's something you can quickly avoid, especially if you are a competent skier.
An ass is still a horse, however.

Rotation: good boarders can/ will ride using various styles. IIRC originally "French" style was actually not rotational and Swiss was, or was it the other way around?
A non-rotational style works well for short radius turns, for huge carves you'd likely be looking at a more rotational approach (Extreme Carving is entirely rotational).

I think novices often fail to engage the edge of the board and try to turn it in other ways, so the danger in a rotational style may be that people try to torque the board that way, which would be a bad idea. The issue is how your stance works through the turn, not how you make the board turn.

Novice teaching systems tend to teach one way to do things, but rather like driving lessons, they only take you so far.

snow boarding is just undignified.
Possibly you're not doing it correctly? Just a thought.

You know it makes sense.

Yep, terrain actually is key...I started boarding in the Snow Centre in Hemel, with my first time on the mountain in ideal conditions.

My wife had 2 hours on a very thin ice covering in a tiny resort in Poland and refused to ever step on a board again!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I was saying that about the monkey stance in the context of being fairly low on the skills scale but think if as a non skier you try it out standing of a carpet at home it gives you just a little feel for the beginnings of a control method that you've not used as a skier.

I also find it useful for when outside of having a lesson and you're practicing those skills it works for me as a kind of soft reset if I'm struggling without having an observer to point things out to you. It's times like this when you just need something memorable, quick and easy to accomplish, that I feel it helps as it's so self explanatory. Just maybe gets you back on track if you've perhaps been standing one your back leg for example. I'll make no claims for its effectiveness regarding further progression but will say that the rotation is only minimal and I'm constantly surprised by how big an influence you can have with what are very small initial movements compared to how much I can really push skis around.

The carving board comment is interesting, I was skiing down a wide piste in parallel with someone on a carving board, it's amazing just the pace, power and shear hard turning he was able to generate, interesting for me to see it close up.

For me, doing both disciplines is just about enjoying it. I love being in the mountains anyway and to spend the day doing either is better than most other things. So all good to me.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

But good boarders don't sit in the snow generally, it's just a habit learners (probably those with padded bottoms) get into. Just don't do it.

Wrist guards: I believe there's actual evidence that they help for beginners on days 1 & 2, significantly less so for advanced riders. In the back country you almost never see anyone using them (because they're experts and it's all powder).

No-boarding: I'm not sure it's actually smoother. The problem is you really do have the "ollie" issue, and I'm not sure if that makes it smoother. I don't like soft boot set ups and this seems more elegant to me. I know a few people, with whom I'm not good enough to ride yet, who can shred pretty much as if they were bolted to the boards. Their family owns a helicopter company, which probably helps with the learning process. But it's something good to learn.

And to me the negative connotations of "old" include inability/ unwillingness to do precisely that. Some people are certainly "old" by 35, I'll never be one of them.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Interesting topic. I ski and board, but have mostly boarded for as long as I can remember (over 25 years). I rarely ski these days, but intend to ski more this season, hopefully skiing one day in three.

The biggest thing that has affected my own ability, in either discipline, has been my fitness. If my legs are tired, I stand up too much and it all goes wrong. It's not a lack of skill, it's a lack of physical ability.

My advice Louisa... get your legs fit and strong. Running is virtually useless for ski/boarding, cycling is good, stair climbing is the best. Squats will build muscle but not endurance so factor some of that in, but not too much. Climbing the Tube stairs (or escalators), climbing the office stairs instead of getting the lift, all of these will help massively.

Once fit, you will find your control to be much better and that will help you build your confidence.

I think boarding can be tougher on your legs than skiing, at times. Without the fitness, it won't be the solution.

Colin McRae's co-driver, Nicky Grist, was an old mate of mine. Him and Colin looked at what made people good drivers, good navigators (the best navigators have poor balance and then get no motion sickness) and what sports they were then also good at. They worked out that there is a line with great balance at one end and great trajectory sense at the other. Everyone sits somewhere along this line. People with good balance are rarely good at tennis, cricket, clay pigeon shooting etc... and vice versa. Golf is the odd sport, as different parts of the game require different abilities, but it is more balance than trajectory.

Skiing and boarding are not all balance. Being able to see a line through the chop and anticipate what you will need to soak up, is a trajectory sense and is vital to being in control.

I think everyone should try to master both skiing and boarding, but don't do it because you are bad at one of them.

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First time I went to Canada, in the mid-90s after 8? weeks skiing and rubbish school group tuition in France, I shared a chalet with a group of guys who were going boarding for the first time. I recalled how my mates had borrowed boards for a day, tried by themselves and hated it. They'd spoken to someone else who had advised them to dedicate the whole week to boarding lessons, not just try a couple of hours. They did, and by the end of the week they were raving. Next year I did the same. Fantastic (Canadian, though still group) tuition - and our instructors would brain us if we ever dared sit in the middle of the piste - and I was far more confident about my boarding after 2-3 weeks than I was about skiing after 8.

After all it is free

Sounds like good progress, I think you can only gain by learning more and it's a real feeling of achievement as you start to roll from edge to edge and get nice transition through those links.
I think going to snow for progressing is definitely the right decision. Great to hear your efforts are being rewarded.

I really thank that boarding improved my understating of skiing, just the realisation of the grip one single edge can generate gives you a better insight.

from my own experience going from boarding to trying skiing i hated the feeling of having both feet free to twist and have a mind of their own haha. Whether you would have the same dislike for having both feet fixed might be worth considering

Help!!

Skiier considering trying boarding

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