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Skiier considering trying boarding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I am not a natural sports person, no matter how much enthusiasm I have I can't seem to progress with skiing. Anyone have any tips on moving from one to the other?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If you *really* want to learn to snowboard, what you need is good quality instruction by people genuinely dedicated to teaching snowboarding, and perseverance...

... and butt padding.

What are you finding hard with skiing?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
What's your tolerance for pain and humiliation?





This is not just my defacto pick up line but I find the answer is indicative of how well you will get on with snowboarding. Anything less than "I'm fine with up to 3 days of heavy bruising and whiplash" and I'd say take up snooker.
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Quote:

"I'm fine with up to 3 days of heavy bruising and whiplash"

Are we still talking about snowboarding, your dates or both now? wink
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Well I have some ass padding, just 3 days of pain and humiliation - I can handle that, although I bruise like a peach and look like I have been in a car crash when I take a spill on the slopes.

I am in a bit of a funk with it I think,I was doing well and took a bad fall and even though I didn't break anything other my bindings and suffered whiplash it's set me back so I thought trying snowboarding might get me out of it.
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Quote:

it's set me back

Snowboarding is not for you! Spend your money on some good mountain based ski lessons (as opposed indoor slopes) and get your ski mojo back.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would say that if you have to ask then probably don't, but then I'm elitist and I'd say that about anything. I mean, either you want to do it, and will do what it takes to do it, or you don't and won't. Snowboarding is probably easier to be bad at than skiing, but being bad is still not a lot of fun.

At resorts I feel that I see fewer competent snowboarders compared with competent skiers, which suggests it's not solution if you find skiing hard, in my view.

Tips for moving from one to the other? Be prepared for a few days of being worse than you used to be. If you were an expert skier then you don't need all this padding and stuff - the mechanics are the same and it's not a big shift.

I was probably the least "natural sports person" at school - I hated all their "sports", and the way they "taught" them did not work for me. Since then I've achieved a competent level in lots of sports simply by learning them. I don't believe in "natural" sports people, you just have to put in the time to learn.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@louisaski, echoing @philwig and Strax, I think you'd be better off sorting out some good lessons and sort your skiing out, rather than trying something different and not really any easier.
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@louisaski, yeah beginning to think that it's more to do with your skiing issues. Reckon you'd probably benefit from taking some one-to-one tuition rather than picking a new discipline - break through whatever plateau you're stuck on.
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philwig wrote:
I mean, either you want to do it, and will do what it takes to do it, ...


That sums up snowboarding for me and most people I bet.

@louisaski, while I agree with the advice in general my mate switched from skiing to snowboarding as he had plateaued relatively quickly but though he isn't the best snowboarder, he's having so much fun and rues his time spent fighting with the skis!

So, I'd say give it a go but get quality instruction straight away.
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Thanks for all the replies folks, I think I will try some one-on-one lessons in the next season to get me over the hump.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
philwig wrote:

I don't believe in "natural" sports people, you just have to put in the time to learn.


There are "natural sports people" that have naturally good balance, hand to eye coordination, timing, reflexes etc.

People that don't have those attributes can still get good at sports, but it takes more dedication.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Evidence? I haven't noticed that myself, hence I'm curious.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Well while you were busy not getting on with "their" sports while at school were there kids who were immediately better at serving a tennis ball or catching a rugby ball? What about chucking a javelin or lobbing a shot - less likely that kids would have any chance of having learned those previously?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@louisaski, why don't you give snowboarding a try- even an indoor lesson over the summer, at least that would give you an idea. Then you might decide to focus on skiing... Or not!

But yes as others have said it will involve a lot of falling.

I've been learning over the past year and can now just about get round the mountain but still falling a bit. After a few days I found it frustrating that I couldn't bomb about as fast and as easily as on skis (yet!). I've also found learning knackering! So I've concluded that it's going to take a while to get up to the level I can ski. Going to keep at it though but will still mostly ski just now.

Also am still finding it weird pointing downhill sideways!

Lessons have been great fun.

Not sure if this any help, just my experience as a skier having a bash at snowboarding!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Well while you were busy not getting on with "their" sports while at school were there kids who were immediately better at serving a tennis ball or catching a rugby ball? What about chucking a javelin or lobbing a shot - less likely that kids would have any chance of having learned those previously?
I wonder. If I'd been to a posh school perhaps they'd have those other sports and I'd know. Even so, they picked people who were "good at sports" to do other sports, so you could not, for example, expect to get any practice at cricket unless you were good at football. That's how the selection thing works.

So being bad at sports would appear to be self fulfilling, as far as school sports at least.

I was obviously completely useless at sports. Except that is for the sports I'm good at: cycling, swimming, caving, climbing, windsurfing, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, skating etc. None required schooling, all require significant practice to become expert. That's why I'm on the side of the "10,000 hour" people.

wink which is all a longer way of saying what I already said. In my view anyone can learn to snowboard well, but it's going to take some investment.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 20-05-16 13:44; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I don't buy the 10,000 hour theory. It's much better to get Quality of time than Quantity. 90 minutes a day for twenty years of whacking a tennis ball against a wall, or sliding down an indoor slope won't make you a Wimbledon contender or a worldcup ski racer. Practice is one thing, but it has to be the right sort of practice, and progressive, and nowhere near 10,000 hours.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Martial arts, are mostly taught in precisely the opposite way you suggest. That's actually why many people don't make expert level there: it's really boring doing what you're describing as "Quantity". The point is that it's counter-intuitive, which is why evidence is more useful that opinion, which we already know is misleading.
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The key element in board sports that no one can sell ....is not focused on hardly at all and often never realised.... is physical flexibility at a higher level especially in the legs.

I noted on here only Stevomcd has mentioned yoga and a certain amount of weeks training in resort getting back into it or back up to speed or as I would say... getting tuned.
Imagine saying on here snowheads need yoga the uppity slothes would all start barking but if you physically improve your flexibility and strength thru a greater range of flexibility ?
Flexibility is a major physical element needed for any average to high level board sport which ever way you go about gaining it.

Personally I think all the lessons in the world wont really help a out of shape individual that's wants nirvana on a short term package punter basis.
Not as much as if say they were focused on boardsport fitness flexibility, then soaked up lessons while practising them a lot afterwards ie more mountain time cannot be beat .
You can go and have a great weeks trip of course but your just weekly financial canonfodder for the resort airline etc your not a flexible board sport athlete.
Commitment is the only one word answer for board sports where practise or serious mountain repetition training time wins personally .
All conds all weather all terrains its all easy said though isn't it .
It took myself 20 seasons before I had one high percentage powder season (personally ) which was about 50 days of powder out of 79 .
This isn't a lot at all for serious seasonaires but it did show up physical weakness in my lesser case
You need a good track good conds and good equipment to do real well its just not a flippant thing to do all that physically you tend to get out what you put in physically in any sport .
Trouble is you cant buy this specific physical flexibility board sport need or requirement you have to gain it... you have to pay the piper.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 21-05-16 22:41; edited 4 times in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philwig wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Well while you were busy not getting on with "their" sports while at school were there kids who were immediately better at serving a tennis ball or catching a rugby ball? What about chucking a javelin or lobbing a shot - less likely that kids would have any chance of having learned those previously?
I wonder. If I'd been to a posh school perhaps they'd have those other sports and I'd know. Even so, they picked people who were "good at sports" to do other sports, so you could not, for example, expect to get any practice at cricket unless you were good at football. That's how the selection thing works.

So being bad at sports would appear to be self fulfilling, as far as school sports at least.

I was obviously completely useless at sports. Except that is for the sports I'm good at: cycling, swimming, caving, climbing, windsurfing, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, skating etc. None required schooling, all require significant practice to become expert. That's why I'm on the side of the "10,000 hour" people.

wink which is all a longer way of saying what I already said. In my view anyone can learn to snowboard well, but it's going to take some investment.


This doesn't make sense. On the one hand you said you don't believe in natural sports people, but then there were others clearly naturally better than you as you were "completely rubbish". Not sure what kind of school you went to, but mine was a normal comprehensive and we did football, basketball, cricket, tennis, athletics etc. Only thing we didn't do was rugby. Sure to be picked for teams you had to be good, which naturally, some people were Smile
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
I don't buy the 10,000 hour theory. It's much better to get Quality of time than Quantity. 90 minutes a day for twenty years of whacking a tennis ball against a wall, or sliding down an indoor slope won't make you a Wimbledon contender or a worldcup ski racer. Practice is one thing, but it has to be the right sort of practice, and progressive, and nowhere near 10,000 hours.


I think K Anders Ericsson who formed the hypothesis before it got ripped off and popularised by Gladwell and Matthew Syed acknowledges this. The practice has to be quality practice and that talent + practice trumps practice alone but talent without practice gets beaten by practice. But as Phil sorta sez there is often a "price of admission" to the practice in that you have to show some aptitude to be invited to join the team or on a personal level people tend not to pursue things they aren't very good at. So one might argue that a lot of the 10000 hours mob have self selected first.

Clearly there are sports you can be great at without 10000 hours of specific practice -I'd say these are more likely to be the "meathead" sports like cycling and rowing where having a good engine and a great power to weight ratio are more important than specific practice in the sport hence athletes do convert.
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DotM wrote:
The practice has to be quality practice and that talent + practice trumps practice alone but talent without practice gets beaten by practice.
After many years in music, I came to exactly that conclusion.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

There are "natural sports people" that have naturally good balance, hand to eye coordination, timing, reflexes etc.

People that don't have those attributes can still get good at sports, but it takes more dedication.

That's what I've found, too. One family member who had two ski lessons, having never even seen snow before, noticed a couple of us trying to do one footed turns on the "wrong" foot. He was curious and asked what we were doing, and then just did it. Semi professional cricketer, wicket keeper.

I have three kids. One "natural" with a ball, two not, though they kept trying, enjoyed it, and could kind of do it. The "natural with a ball" guy is an excellent skier, the other two (who have had considerably more good quality tuition) are just, like me, OK at it.

I had a boyfriend once who was a fell runner - a sport which needs good endurance and fitness but no particular sporting gift. He was keen to learn to play squash but was totally hopeless. He just couldn't throw the ball up and hit it with the bat. Tried over and over and over again. Then ran off up the fell.
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Everyone knows the rules.

If you are under 35, you can snowboard.

If you are over 35, you cannot snowboard.

Old people on a tray just look ridiculous.
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louisaski wrote:
I was doing well and took a bad fall and even though I didn't break anything other my bindings and suffered whiplash it's set me back so I thought trying snowboarding might get me out of it.


Trying snowboarding because you've had a bad experience skiing is a bit like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire .......
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I'm doing the same switch as you. Have only been skiing for years and got pretty good at it, but want to give snowboarding a go. Mainly for the comfier boots if I'm honest. It's hard struggling down the most simple slope that you know you could do with your eyes closed on a pair of ski's. I've had a couple of 1 hour lessons and the progression has been really quick. About ready to start linking turns which hopefully will set me on the way to being able to practice by myself before going away in Jan.

Learning on a dry slope also which I'm finding tough. Such hard work and I'm pretty much out on my feet at the end of it. But I'm going to stick with it...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@rutlandchris, Well done. Keep working with the edge pressure and keep the legs loose and you'll get there.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Good man @rutlandchris, if you have it underway on the dry slope, you'll be rocking it on the real snow, soooooo much easier and faster.

One day soon you'll hit the 'click day' and it'll all come together. The next biggie will be your first powder day - after that you'll never go back.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rutlandchris, I know someone making the other switch, from snowboarding to skiing. By all accounts he's a pretty decent boarder and cited two reasons for skiing. Firstly because he's at a stage where to progress on boarding he needs to do 'properly stupid stuff' and secondly because his kids are learning skiing. He said its really difficult going from being a decent off piste rider, to someone who struggles his way down nursery slopes and gentle blues. To add insult to injury he also said the kids are considerably better than him already (which is sort of to be expected).

However I think he's noticed that one of his problems is that he always has his board with him, so it's too easy to decide not to ski. On his next trip he's thinking of leaving the board behind...not sure how likely that is, I'd have thought that the fear of missing out on powder day would be too strong!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I was all ready to do the same as your friend @SnoodyMcFlude, learn to ski while the kids are learning, as it'd be more practical to be on skis to field children, get in close to help them etc etc, but I've noticed that actually it doesn't really make very much difference. Kids tend to progress so fast, they'll overtake you, or that you need to be able to be better they are to extract them from whatever situation they've got themselves into. Don't get me wrong, all in favour of being multi-discipline, but if you're being the 'responsible person' then you should probably be on the kit you're most comfortable with.

Case in point - Sideways youngest ran out of juice/will/ability/hot chocolate, whatever and plonked himself down and wouldn't/couldn't get himself down the mountain. Deploy usual parental levels of cajoling, bribery and threats, none worked, so nothing else for it but to walk him down. But it's a long way, and snowing, and he is still quite small (4 at the time) So, I get him to put his arms around my neck, feet up and I snowboard with him down the hill, carrying him down to the base. If i'd not been on my preferred method of travel, then i'd not have had either the confidence to do it or had the skill level on skis.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Hah, well i've gone both ways, tried to learn to ski for a week, could not get the hang of it. Switched to boarding the next year and carried on for another 10 years, loved it instantly, it just clicked. Recently I found needed a new challenge when conditions weren't great and when more on piste with families and do not have any interest in the park so stuck two planks back on and have not looked back, I've barely snowboarded since and the learning to ski seems to have just clicked the second time round.
For me I think it was all in the mind and also partly how they are taught. Skiing is taught by learning control and preventing crashes on gently slopes and working up, this always left me feeling that round the corner there might be something I couldn't get down in control. Snow boarding however a crash is the first thing you learn and then sideslipping meaning you can safely get down virtually anything safely (admitedly whilst scraping all the snow off for everyone else). Caveat - I suspect nowday snowboard lessons may also have gone the safely safely slowly slowly ski route. Second time round with skiing my fear of what was round the corner was gone, my fear of a crash dimminished.

I recon if you are tempted why not give it a go, they are similar but different sports, and its definitely a case that one or the other clicks easier with different people. As others have said prepare for some bruising!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My first ever time on a mountain was skiing, however I absolutely hated it, couldn't wait to get back into the bar, I just felt I had no control at all and whilst changing (hire) boots helped quite a lot, I wasn't keen to go back in a hurry...however I really liked the whole ski trip experience (other than the skiing)!

So the first thing I got back when I got home was booked a snowboard lesson.

The first thing I did after that was buy some padded shorts!!!

When my wife had a couple of lessons skiing I decided to try again and really enjoyed it, so now I do a bit of both...quite badly...just for variety really, some days I prefer boarding, some days skiing...both are great!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
@rutlandchris, I know someone making the other switch, from snowboarding to skiing. By all accounts he's a pretty decent boarder and cited two reasons for skiing. Firstly because he's at a stage where to progress on boarding he needs to do 'properly stupid stuff' and secondly because his kids are learning skiing. He said its really difficult going from being a decent off piste rider, to someone who struggles his way down nursery slopes and gentle blues. To add insult to injury he also said the kids are considerably better than him already (which is sort of to be expected).

However I think he's noticed that one of his problems is that he always has his board with him, so it's too easy to decide not to ski. On his next trip he's thinking of leaving the board behind...not sure how likely that is, I'd have thought that the fear of missing out on powder day would be too strong!


Definitely. The temptation to give up and just ski the mountain is strong.....
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@Richard_Sideways, very valid points! I think that in this case it's as part of a larger trip with multiple families, so he's not too concerned that he needs to wrangle escaping kids. Also they're something like 12 and 9 so slightly less likely to refuse to move.

I'm definitely tempted to give snowboarding a go. I was going to do it on my first proper trip but one of the guys I went with decided to ski and had never done anything before, so even though I only had 1 day experience I decided that I'd ski too so that he wasn't the only one of the group on two planks. At some point in the lead up to the holiday I decided to buy ski boots. At that point I'd become invested in being a skier so have sort of stuck with it. Now with 6 weeks under my belt I've bought skis too, so the prospect of going back to the start doesn't attract me quite so much. The only real possibility is convincing someone else that they want to learn to snowboard and then going with them.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've been a long term skier but learnt to board with my nephew. He was stuck in a bit of a hole with various things within his family, not bad and he's a decent lad. So I booked the cheapest trip I could find on a Wednesday and we left the following Saturday going to Cervinia. Took my ski boots as insurance incase I was useless, he'd been long boarding and mountain boarding (both on wheels) so I thought he'd be way ahead of me.
Booked lessons for the week and hired our boards, took them out straight away just to get a feel before the next day's lesson and we were both absolutely useless to a comical degree. I've not laughed so much for a long time and he neither as we took it in turns to try and get along just the very flatist of raw beginner slopes. Being the supposed responsible adult, I had to call time on our attempts before we fell and flattened someone else.
Followed by the first three days of lessons with Italian ski school, which had dedicated and very good instructors. As the others have said it's three straight days of falling on your back bottom along with any other bits you've got. But gradually they put in place your skills to get you up and going. After three days, we seemed to progress at the same pace with anything I'd brought from skiing around mountains and his from the boarding he'd done.
That three day watershed is absolutely true, it really does start hanging together at a much faster pace after that time. Some of our lesson group had given up at that point so never got to the other side, so to speak.
Didn't get to black pistes during the week but ok to access all the red pistes with a little care, massive sense of accomplishment is an understatement.
He's gone on to do an instructor course, I'm not bad but have just got my two kids to proficient level skiing and it's been easier for me to help them through this while on skis. I'm keeping in touch with boarding through this and will be in position to get more time this season.
Both things I love though and having a different perspective while riding skis when close or near boarders has made me alot better in that respect I believe.
It's something I'd encourage anyone to do as it adds so much to your skills. It is a real mind over matter I felt as when you strap your feet onto one board it just makes you balance. Many of the influences are more subtle than skiing to get the board doing what you want. I enjoy skiing in powder but it is sublime on a board, just floating through it like magic.

I was sitting thinking after I came back from that first week, and realised if I didn't use and enhance my sense of balance then I'd effectively be giving it away. What better way could you find to help you?

We both had a brilliant week and it's a nice situation for me to have that relationship within our family. We still get on really well and he's grown alot. One of the best decisions I've made, and one he'll of alot of fun.

I was over 35 as well, I wouldn't let that worry anyone. It's the people that don't try something that are missing out.
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I forgot to add a piece of advice that came to me second hand but originally from a lifetime boarder that lives in Chamonix, I use it because it makes me laugh and its so easy to go to even when you're struggling.

Hang like a monkey and point to where you want to go, couldn't be simpler really.

You can try it at home to see what he means, stand in a feet apart board stance, bend your knees like an ape, lift your leading arm up to shoulder height and as you point the direction you want to travel your legs and feet will automatically do as needed to stear and balance you. You should feel as you rotate your shoulders that each foot it going opposite ways from loading either the heel or the toe which is what gives the board it's control. It's very subtle, just a few degrees of shoulder turn will start your feet loading different edges on the board and it will go faithfully where you point.

For those considering trying it, then just ignore others and try for yourself, I don't think you'd have any regrets.
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@ski3, Gonna dry me teeth at that one... Upper body rotation turns *do* work... up to a point - and that point is when you've picked up some speed or are on a steeper pitch, at which point you're heading for trouble. Thats not to say I've not been told to use the 'point'n'go' method before, it's a rapid progression technique, but Upper Body Rotation is considered to be rather a bad habit and you want to try to eliminate it as much as possible from your riding as you progress beyond the bunny slopes.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I have just read this post and while I actually like the idea of a long time skier taking up snowboarding this looked a bit wrong

Quote:

Everyone knows the rules.

If you are under 35, you can snowboard.

If you are over 35, you cannot snowboard.

Old people on a tray just look ridiculous.


Almost all boarders I see are over 35
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@johnE, That's just whitegold......
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Butt padding good.

Snowboarding gloves good

Wrist splints ESSENTIAL! Surprised this has not been mentioned before. Damaging or breaking wrists is a very common snowboard injury. Buy the best wrist protection you can find and always wear them.

One to one lessons will help you learn rapidly in the early stages as the instructor will board with you and holding you up. [ In my case thank you Annette ]
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