 Poster: A snowHead
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@terrygasson, it's cheaper and quicker for me to fly to mainland Europe than it is to drive to Bath or London.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Many Brits visiting France to ski look for English speaking instruction and stay in British run catered chalets or self catering apartments. They take their tea bags and Marmite with them. They expect people in bars, garages, restaurants, tourist offices, etc etc etc to speak English and can often not even manage very simple transactions in French. They're not exactly hell bent on experiencing a different culture.  Many French people don't speak much English - why would they want to come to the UK where even major tourist attractions often have no information available in French and the average Brit they encounter in shops, garages, etc won't speak a word of French? A Frenchman would need a decent level of every day English (far and away greater than the French capability of British skiers in the Alps) to get himself around comfortably in the UK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, what has whether or not French people want to visit the uk have to do with this?
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It is relevant, @swiftoid, to the implication that Brits like to travel to experience different cultures, in contrast to "other Europeans". That suggestion (unjustified as far as I'm concerned) was perhaps where this strayed off topic. But hey, this is Snowheads. Who cares? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@pam w, The Brits are skiing at France because there's no proper ski places in Britain anyway. Speaking frog's talk be damned.
BTW, when I was at the Birthday Bash a few years back at the Dolomites, I noticed many locals were quite fluent in German. So, although it's in Italy, it wouldn't have present much language problem for Austrians skiing there. Even the food were often a mix of both Italian dishes and Austrian dishes!
I changed the title of the thread to reflect more accurately the question I have in mind. I'm not expecting anything profound (unless there IS something profound that can be derived from it). Just simple curiosity of mine. (I guess that same curiosity drives me to ski in Canada...  )
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We get a few Scots skiing here in northern England. The border is quite close.
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If I lived in France I think I'd be just as likely to ski in Switzerland as France. Unless you actually live very close to a French ski resort, there isn't likely to be much difference in the travel e.g. from Paris. I'd also still be skiing mostly in Canada to get away from the Euro crowds.
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| abc wrote: |
@pam w,
BTW, when I was at the Birthday Bash a few years back at the Dolomites, I noticed many locals were quite fluent in German. So, although it's in Italy, it wouldn't have present much language problem for Austrians skiing there. Even the food were often a mix of both Italian dishes and Austrian dishes!
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That's because the Dolomites are in Sud Tirol, part of Tirol, and used to be in Austria! Most locals actually speak German as their mother tongue (Ladin in some parts, but rarely Italian). The area is also under quite a lot of protection by Austria - for example tax generated there can't be spent elsewhere in Italy, young people are guaranteed places at Austrian universities, all official documents and paperwork have to be made available in German as well as Italian. Given a vote most would choose to go back to being part of Austria (apparently, I don't have any sources for that).
Plenty of Austrians do ski there, and they all come up to Austria to go shopping in Innsbruck on every public holiday!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Many Brits visiting France to ski look for English speaking instruction and stay in British run catered chalets or self catering apartments. They take their tea bags and Marmite with them. They expect people in bars, garages, restaurants, tourist offices, etc etc etc to speak English and can often not even manage very simple transactions in French. They're not exactly hell bent on experiencing a different culture. |
Not exactly true - choosing things that improve the experience e.g. instruction from a native English speaker or proper tea or the breakfast spread of the gods is hardly rejecting the host culture. I'd consider it pretty pretentious if Brits immediately insisted on shoving themselves into a shoebox sized hovel, unloading their weeks worth of food from the Carrefour down the hill and taking out their comedy handbag dog to poo-poo all over any nearby paths and snow. All these things are as typical of French ski culture as the things you state are of the Brit abroad.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@abc, Are there proper ski places in the eastern US ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
| The Brits are skiing at France because there's no proper ski places in Britain anyway. |
There are "proper ski places". If it's skiing it's proper. Scottish ski hills are some of the most beautiful and challenging in the world. They aren't necessarily reliable enough with snow cover to make book long in advance destination resorts but then you could say the same about some very big name places in the Western US region these days.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| The Brits are skiing at France because there's no proper ski places in Britain anyway. |
Scottish ski hills are some of the most beautiful and challenging in the world. |
I wouldn't know about that. In the dozen or so times I've skied there it's been covered in thick fog and dubious snow the entire time. Not to mention the gale force winds. Unless you happen to live nearby I don't really see the point in making the trip north when the Alps are only a couple of hours cheapskate flight away.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I've skied there it's been covered in thick fog and dubious snow the entire time. Not to mention the gale force winds. Unless you happen to live nearby I don't really see the point in making the trip north when the Alps are only a couple of hours cheapskate flight away.
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that's fighting talk, @uktrailmonster,
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comedy handbag dog
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I don't see many of them in the French alps in winter - they were a speciality item on the Cote d'Azur, though. In winter there are damn great hounds, who can make even more mess.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I wouldn't know about that. In the dozen or so times I've skied there it's been covered in thick fog and dubious snow the entire time. Not to mention the gale force winds.
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That was the French Alps the first half of this season.
Check out the Scottish conditions thread or http://www.winterhighland.info/
For genuinely challenging skiing Scotland is hard to beat, particularly so this year 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Only the craziest Frenchman would make the trip to Scotland specifically to go skiing!
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True. But he'd be a bit daft to go to Austria, too, unless he spoke German. You need to be an intrepid traveller to go somewhere where you don't speak the native language and they don't speak yours. Similarly why would an Austrian go to France? The Dutch go everywhere because they typically speak several foreign languages better than most of us Brits speak even one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Dutch go everywhere
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because they have no mountains?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@pam w, not many handbag dogs where we are either. Pointers, Setters, Huskies, German Shepherds and Pyrennean mountain dogs are more popular.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Only the craziest Frenchman would make the trip to Scotland specifically to go skiing!
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True. But he'd be a bit daft to go to Austria, too, unless he spoke German. You need to be an intrepid traveller to go somewhere where you don't speak the native language and they don't speak yours. Similarly why would an Austrian go to France? The Dutch go everywhere because they typically speak several foreign languages better than most of us Brits speak even one. |
Not so daft, Austria has some equally great world class skiing as France, just with a different atmosphere (that the more open-minded Frenchman might be attracted too just for a change) and it's not so far away as Scotland. I'm not going to be convinced that Scotland has any world class skiing areas worth visiting from afar.
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Vast majority of French skiers do not like going out of France.
During the French family holiday peak weeks when there can be horrendous queues etc etc in Serre Che we'd pop over to Italy (30mins) to escape the hordes, and would be empty.
As had been mentioned the Italians do travel, as do the Germans, along with the Slovaks, and Russkies all who have their own mountains. not too sure about Poles and mountains though?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Only the craziest Frenchman would make the trip to Scotland specifically to go skiing!
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True. But he'd be a bit daft to go to Austria, too, unless he spoke German. You need to be an intrepid traveller to go somewhere where you don't speak the native language and they don't speak yours. Similarly why would an Austrian go to France? The Dutch go everywhere because they typically speak several foreign languages better than most of us Brits speak even one. |
Actually, I noticed quite a number of French skiing in Kitzbühel a few weeks ago. I doubt many of the locals speak French, but they definitely speak English, so not really a problem to communicate. I suppose some of the French visitors might even speak German. Lots of Austrians do go to France btw...
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When I was doing my 'supervised hours' in Glencoe many many moons ago. one of my first classes was made up of the daughter of the French Consul in Edinburgh and the daughter of the Belgian Managing Director of Phillips Electronics in the UK. It certainly taxed the remnants of my failed French 'O' Level. I didn't find out what the two young ladies made of the on-site restaurant facilities, but of course they were impressed by the wonderful scenery and the high standard of instruction provided!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Only the craziest Frenchman would make the trip to Scotland specifically to go skiing!
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True. But he'd be a bit daft to go to Austria, too, unless he spoke German. You need to be an intrepid traveller to go somewhere where you don't speak the native language and they don't speak yours. Similarly why would an Austrian go to France? The Dutch go everywhere because they typically speak several foreign languages better than most of us Brits speak even one. |
Actually, I noticed quite a number of French skiing in Kitzbühel a few weeks ago. I doubt many of the locals speak French, but they definitely speak English, so not really a problem to communicate. I suppose some of the French visitors might even speak German. Lots of Austrians do go to France btw... |
I don't speak anything other than English, but it's never been an issue anywhere in mainland Europe or anywhere else for that matter e.g. Japan, China. Maybe English is a bit more universal than most languages, but unless you want to be chatting away with foreign locals it doesn't really matter whether or not they understand you and you can usually get by just fine in shops and restaurants etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When skiing in the Ports du Soleil, many years ago, I got the impression that the French stayed in France, even though the slopes in Switzerland were far less crowded. Long time ago - maybe things have changed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@achilles, how could you tell?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@achilles, it's the Swiss that go elsewhere, especially the Züricher to the Arlberg. Simply a question of prices I guess.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Swiss and Dutch goes all over the world. That's more cultural than anything else.
In some far flung corner of the world (or just little known villages off the tourist path), the only white man one run into is quite often Swiss or Dutch.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@uktrailmonster, to be fair, I learned in Scotland and thusly feel justified in being cheeky about it. Given the number of weekend afternoons sitting beside race courses in the bitter wind in rather untechnical kit.
But if I still lived there I think (in particular) that the touring opportunities, if you aren't tethered to a M-F 9-5 desk job, must be marvellous.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @achilles, how could you tell? |
Slopes crowded in Morzine and Avoriaz, near deserted in Les Crosets. The contrast amazed me at the time.
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@achilles, no it was that the Swiss skied in France cos the lifts were fastest (and the snow didn't go off as fast).
Are you sure it wasn't a school holiday related thing?
The PdS Swiss side has always been quieter anyway because there isn't so much vacation accommodation.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@uktrailmonster, to be fair, I learned in Scotland and thusly feel justified in being cheeky about it. Given the number of weekend afternoons sitting beside race courses in the bitter wind in rather untechnical kit.
But if I still lived there I think (in particular) that the touring opportunities, if you aren't tethered to a M-F 9-5 desk job, must be marvellous. |
Oh don't get me wrong, if I lived north of the border I'd be skiing there regularly. It's just that I can't see any point in making the trip from the south midlands.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Many Brits visiting France to ski look for English speaking instruction and stay in British run catered chalets or self catering apartments. They take their tea bags and Marmite with them. They expect people in bars, garages, restaurants, tourist offices, etc etc etc to speak English and can often not even manage very simple transactions in French. They're not exactly hell bent on experiencing a different culture. Many French people don't speak much English - why would they want to come to the UK where even major tourist attractions often have no information available in French and the average Brit they encounter in shops, garages, etc won't speak a word of French? A Frenchman would need a decent level of every day English (far and away greater than the French capability of British skiers in the Alps) to get himself around comfortably in the UK. |
Pam, whilst you're right about the average Brit abroad I think things are changing slightly with regard to the French. I'm working in Paris and go to a number of conversation circles where a lot of young French people are learning English. At the moment the job prospects are so much better for young graduates in London than Paris that large numbers are moving over. There's a big difference between borderline conversational language skills, which is the level most well educated French leave school at, and being able to operate well in a multinational company abroad and I see large numbers trying to become more proficient. The numbers of Brits who can speak passable French compared to the numbers of continentals who can speak passable English is pretty laughable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's not laughable, it's rational. English is the language of international business. English is the language of IT. Learn English and the world is your oyster. Learn French and you can speak to the French. The level of reward for the effort is entirely different. The downside for Anglophones is that it turns out being bilingual makes you smarter at other things too.
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| emwmarine wrote: |
The numbers of Brits who can speak passable French compared to the numbers of continentals who can speak passable English is pretty laughable. |
LOL, the number of Brits who can speak and write passable English is pretty laughable too. So what chance have they got with a foreign language?!
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FAQ
