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Setting Up A Catered Chalet Business

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@chaletcompanyconfidential, Welcome to snowHeads! Very good post, thanks for that!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
+1. But what about the showers..... wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@chaletcompanyconfidential, Very interesting post. A few questions:

As I mentioned in my first post I can't help feeling that scale is one of the vital ingredients. It must be very, very hard to make a living from a single chalet but rather more feasible if running two, three or more. How many chalets do you have in your business?

Without asking you to get personal, do you think that Mountain Addictions attitude (particularly regarding two showers a day, teapot rinsing etc.) to be appropriate? Like you I tend yo think that the customer is always right, especially when they are wrong! It's a bit like the old joke of a young married man who has just had a blazing row with his wife and seeks advice from an elderly friend. Friend advises you man to apologise immediately. Young man points out that he was the one in the right and the wife was the one in the wrong. Older friend admits this is trickier and tells him he should still go and apologise but this time he should take flowers as well!

What % occupancy can you reasonably expect if you work hard at your marketing?
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My own advice to RLTP would be to run a chalet for a company next winter. Try and find a job with someone independent though to give you a real feel for what it is like.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@foxtrotzulu, we have 2 chalets. Scale is important but balance is important too. Keeping standards and occupancy high in a smaller number of chalets can be better than middling occupancy in a larger pool. Spreading additional overheads across chalets is another factor so taking on an additional single chalet may not be worthwhile if you couldn't take on another to share the costs.

I won't comment specifically on what MA has said because I have some sympathy for what they say. I will say that we run a relaxed, friendly company but that this doesn't stop a very small number of guests overstepping the mark. The customer is not always right and sometimes no is the correct answer. How you deal with those situations is key.

If we work hard at marketing our level of occupancy is good but I'm not prepared to give a % figure. High enough to make it worth our while but our idea of good might vary from other companies. Sorry, don't want to go into specifics
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Quote:

One of all time favourite accommodations was the much missed Rifugio Guglielmina. No heating other than the lounge and restaurant, no hot water and only the best rooms had windows that closed tightly enough to keep the snow out on a windy night.


I don't expect to be in Alagna any time soon but still knowing that it is no more makes me sad whenever I think about it. I only stayed there a couple of times and that was after they had put coin operated hot showers in. The food and wine cellar was exceptional, the welcome as warm as the woodburners and the views were staggering. Have to say the combination of the wine, grappa and altitude didn't do wonders for the quality of sleep but first turns after a decent coffee made you forget that instantly.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@chaletcompanyconfidential,
Quote:

I will say that we run a relaxed, friendly company but that this doesn't stop a very small number of guests overstepping the mark. The customer is not always right and sometimes no is the correct answer. How you deal with those situations is key.
I do understand that the customer isn't actually always right but I think you understand what I mean. As an example, if someone grumbles that they are having a miserable holiday because crosisants are always so disgusting and why can't the French bake decent bread like Mother's Pride, then I'd argue that the right solution is to agree that croissants are an acquired taste and would they like you to try and pick up some English style bread next time you are shopping.


Quote:

If we work hard at marketing our level of occupancy is good but I'm not prepared to give a % figure. High enough to make it worth our while but our idea of good might vary from other companies. Sorry, don't want to go into specifics

Sorry, I hadn't thought about that aspect of it. Of course you don't want to give out occupancy figures (even if we don't know who you are).

I think one of my key points is that IMO the role of a chalet operator/host is not simply to provide accomodation and food but to enable me to have a great holiday (through providing accomodation and food).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
chaletcompanyconfidential wrote:
The customer is not always right and sometimes no is the correct answer.


I honestly can say that I have to deal with far, far fewer "difficult" clients than any of my friends have to in their working life!

We get to choose our colleagues too. The couples who've worked with us have all (except one who we knew were only available for one season and one who we recruited back in the early days who weren't great and that was a learning experience for us) returned for more than one season, have continued to come on holiday here once they've left and have all become genuine, good, friends of ours.

In terms of hard work... I agree, I don't think this is harder work than other jobs. The difference is you very have intense periods and then relatively free periods rather than a consistent 9-5, Monday-Friday. The former style suits me better than the latter but running a chalet certainly isn't for everyone, just as office work is not for everyone. You need a lot of energy during the intense periods so you have to enjoy your job or it's not going to work.
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Hells Bells wrote:
My own advice to RLTP would be to run a chalet for a company next winter. Try and find a job with someone independent though to give you a real feel for what it is like.


I think this is the best idea on this thread.

Never start a business in something that you are not expert in. In doing this then RLTP can start in a low risk way.
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Quote:

Never start a business in something that you are not expert in


I wasn't an expert. I'm still here!
'Expert' may be too strong a word, 'educated' or 'experienced' may be more appropriate (and I don't necessarily mean schooling as a way of education!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
flangesax wrote:
Quote:

Never start a business in something that you are not expert in


I wasn't an expert. I'm still here!
'Expert' may be too strong a word, 'educated' or 'experienced' may be more appropriate (and I don't necessarily mean schooling as a way of education!)


That's true. I meant that you go into it knowing the ins and outs, the suppliers, marketing and the commercial sensitivities etc.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
flangesax wrote:
Quote:

Never start a business in something that you are not expert in


I wasn't an expert. I'm still here!
'Expert' may be too strong a word, 'educated' or 'experienced' may be more appropriate (and I don't necessarily mean schooling as a way of education!)


....i'm still not.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
foxtrotzulu wrote:
I do understand that the customer isn't actually always right but I think you understand what I mean. As an example, if someone grumbles that they are having a miserable holiday because crosisants are always so disgusting and why can't the French bake decent bread like Mother's Pride, then I'd argue that the right solution is to agree that croissants are an acquired taste and would they like you to try and pick up some English style bread next time you are shopping.


Yes that's how to handle it. Personally I'd mock them for disliking croissants, which is why I'm an unsuitable person to enter the hospitality business. But at least I know it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
+1. But what about the showers..... wink



Lol.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
dogwatch wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
I do understand that the customer isn't actually always right but I think you understand what I mean. As an example, if someone grumbles that they are having a miserable holiday because crosisants are always so disgusting and why can't the French bake decent bread like Mother's Pride, then I'd argue that the right solution is to agree that croissants are an acquired taste and would they like you to try and pick up some English style bread next time you are shopping.


Yes that's how to handle it. Personally I'd mock them for disliking croissants, which is why I'm an unsuitable person to enter the hospitality business. But at least I know it.


Well I would laugh and then gladly offer to pick up a loaf of sliced white bread or anything else I could get that would make them happy as that's exactly the reaction I'd have with friends and family. If you have to fake your personality at work then that is pretty miserable as far as I'm concerned, but particularly so when you are running a lifestyle business and hosting guests in your home. Honestly, the guest who books a week's holiday in France and doesn't see the funny side of the fact that they are craving some longlife white sliced bread and cheddar is going to be pretty rare and, if they're that humourless, maybe it just isn't the best match for future holidays.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

hat's exactly the reaction I'd have with friends and family


Not me - friends and family would get the p1ss taken out of them mercilessly. Paying guests on the other hand...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Paying guests on the other hand...

Would still get the wee wee taken out of them... but get some bread too!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I once took my two sons, and a school friend of one of them, on a 4 day trek in Fiji, eating in villages (sitting cross legged on the floor). The visitor, a conservative lad who thought my home made pizza was daringly foreign, ate very little and kept assuring me he wasn't hungry. On the last breakfast, at a village near the road, there was white sliced bread on the table (or rather, on the mat). He fell on it like a swarm of locusts. Laughing

Personally I rarely eat croissants. Many are not, in my view, good enough to be worth the calories (the ones bought in big boxes in supermarkets for very little dosh). I'd prefer a fresh baguette or a slice of my home made bread. Not Mother's Pride, though, or any other mass market low quality rubbish. wink

Our local boulangerie makes great croissants - expensive. They do "croissants aux amandes" too, which are divine. Far more calories but so delicious, for a treat.
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Quote:

Personally I rarely eat croissants. ...

Our local boulangerie makes great croissants - expensive


I'm with you. The boulangerie in Les C is so good it has had the happy consequence of meaning I am not at all tempted to eat pastries in the UK anymore. They are a complete let down. I even found that the boulangerie in Les Houches was a pale imitation.
The downside is I am certain the French think we are disgusting gluttons for the number of croissants we get through when we are in Les C. But I just send the kids on the bread run so I don't have to feel the disapproval Very Happy Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I always work on the principle of at least 1.5 croissants per person when I'm buying. One each is just miserable.

One interesting point, boulangeries making decent croissants are becoming increasingly hard to fin in rural France (in my experience). Every year the number of villages with a boulangerie decreases and the quality of those croissants can be pretty variable. Some are just disgusting.
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pam w wrote:
Personally I rarely eat croissants.


Never in the UK but a short stroll to buy a croissant for breakfast is part of my skiing routine. Delicious and we burn those calories off, don't we?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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Ah! Not a short stroll for me to buy croissants though my French neighbour always drives into town (a 10 km round trip!) to buy fresh baguettes and croissants.

I agree with @jedster that the quality of a really good French patisserie is such that shop-bought UK pastries aren't very appealing. I find the Italian ones pretty duff, too - too sweet. And as for the jam-filled horrors in the Italian Autogrills.... Shocked I have taken to carrying a marmalade sandwich with me to accompany my (excellent) coffee if I expect to be breakfasting on an Italian motorway. The French aires vary - some have quite a nice escargot - which together with a passable cup of coffee cost less than a bucket of Costalot at Clacket Lane.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
You do all know that croissants are Austrian don't you?
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@flangesax, I think you might be confusing your croissants with your dumplings. Croissants are a delicious sweet, light pastry synonymous with all that is best in French cuisine, and dumplings are, well, dumplings... wink
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Nope... they are a product of Vienesse patisserie.
The word is derived from 'crescent' and the form became traditional after ridding Austria of the Turks (Ottoman).

Unfortunately, most of Austria has forgotten their patisserie skills (and make very tidy and colourful yet tasteless cakes instead).
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@flangesax, I seem to remember hearing Raymond Blanc talk about croissants recenly and he said that croissants were always straight on Sundays - presumaby to avoid a Muslim crescent on the Christian holy day.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

I seem to remember hearing Raymond Blanc talk about croissants recenly and he said that croissants were always straight on Sundays

Was that three weeks ago, @foxtrotzulu?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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@pam w, 18th of Feb to be precise Very Happy Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@flangesax, I stand corrected Smile
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Did you used to stand on one leg?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@flangesax, ??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
flangesax wrote:
Nope... they are a product of Vienesse patisserie.
The word is derived from 'crescent' and the form became traditional after ridding Austria of the Turks (Ottoman).

Unfortunately, most of Austria has forgotten their patisserie skills (and make very tidy and colourful yet tasteless cakes instead).


Anyone who has seen the fat blokes on motorbikes or the politician who likes trains would know that croissants originate from Austria.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hey my partner is trying to get into off shore, what is it you do exactly? Thanks @snowsmog,
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@Fightfilly, this thread is nearly 5 yrs old Very Happy
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Hahah oh well
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