 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all
My son and I have just returned from a wonderful 8 days of skiing in Tignes. I say 8, but it should have been 9. EasyJet cancelled our flight at the last minute (literally). I lost my transfer, a day's equipment hire, lift pass, apartment hire and train fare home. I live near Guildford and the only flight option (unless I lost ANOTHER day of skiing) was Southend, the next day, for a 6am flight.
That's my tale of woe (insert violin smilie). Sleazyjet say I'm entitled to €250 'compensation'. That literally doesn't cover my financial losses. I have intermediate ski holiday insurance with the Ski Club. Can anyone advise me of the best course of action regarding getting the maximum compensation possible, short of hiring £1000/ hour solicitors please.
I hope I don't come across as rude, but could you refrain from answering if you're just guessing what to do. I'm hoping for an realistic, actionable response. Similar experiences would be interesting to hear, good or bad.
Thanks for taking the time to read this dull as dishwater thread 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 9-04-16 19:59; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@faithsdaddy, can I suggest calling your insurers would be the first step.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@faithsdaddy, ...right...mostly we have had excellent service from QJ.
we had exactly the same for all four of us from Montpelier after a week's climbing. We rejected their offer of a flight THREE DAYS LATER - getting the kids back to school too late...and hired a car and left it at Calais. Horrible exhausting drive.
It took me THREE MONTHS of getting no sense out of the helpline - the person was different each time we phoned and each time it was back to square one. At one time they even insisted that we had taken the flight! Despite me showing receipts for the car hire and the hotel at Dijon. Idiots. So much for security...
After three months I was tearing my hair out. The ONLY point at which they responded with appropriate levels of compensation was when I posted the whole thing on a consumer website. They obviously have robot applications which monitor postings. They resolved in 2 hours, and couldn't have been more helpful at that stage.
That tells a story I think. I would have a go with them and then go public. But be scrupulously accurate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Keep all relevant documentation. There are two kinds of costs. Those you incurred because of the cancellation (eg the transfer, if you had to pay again) and the 'losses " such as apartment rental, which weren't financial in the same sense.
Keep everything very accurate and don't confuse the two categories. When you have that list in front of you, ring your insurers and ask their advice. They won't pay for anything you can get out of easyJet so you'll probably need to pursue them first.
What an absolute pain though. You must both have been gutted on the day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was Pam. It's the way they handled it that made it so bad. It took nearly 5 hours from when we went through customs before we were able to go home.
Thanks for your advice everyone.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My flight last month was cancelled by Lufthansa. It was one of 12 flights from Manchester cancelled due to staff shortages due to snow in the surrounding areas (hardly any snow at Manchester airport itself). Unfortunately, despite being told at the airport that I would be reimbursed for expenses, that turned out not to be the case as the reason for the cancellation was 'adverse weather conditions'. I missed a day's skiing, stayed in a hotel for the night in Manchester but was able to get on the next Lufthansa flight the following morning. It cost me around £90 in total, hotel for the night, taxis to and from the hotel, plus a train to Austria the next day. Wasn't worth claiming on my travel insurance as there is an excess of £50.
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@faithsdaddy, I had something similiar many years ago. I took them to the small claims court. All I wanted was my costs covering for hotel and hire car in England to get back to my origional airport.
They refused to pay, hence went legal. They stretched it out, at every deadline they did the minimum to hope I'd give up!! At the very last minute they made an "out of court" settlement which covered my costs. I think it took over 6 months to sort.
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@faithsdaddy, can you elaborate a bit e.g.
* Where were flying from and to?
* When/how did easyJet notify you the flight was cancelled?
* What reason did they give for cancellation?
* What alternatives were you offered?
* What "care" were you offered?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My flight home from Geneva with Swiss was cancelled whilst we were in the airport last year on way home from eosb. No reason given - I believe it was because they had so few passengers. They got us on the next flight. No compensation due but some got meal vouchers, I however did not! I made a general complaint but only ever got automated emails back. I expected more of Swiss.
This year in Jan flight back was cancelled from Innsbruck with Thomas Cook. None of us told, on two separate flights cancelled, to two UK destinations. Cancelled due to snow but there was about a cm on the ground at Innsbruck and ALL other airlines were departing and arriving as per normal schedule! 🙄 Again no compensation due because not delayed long enough. They didn't give a shite. They have everyone's phone numbers/email addresses, we were told (by the airport) T. C. had cancelled the flight a day or two before, yet they couldn't be ar*ed to ring their passengers to re-arrange flights in advance to save v early starts etc and hanging around help desks.
Hope you get some joy @faithsdaddy, and that it doesn't get too stressful. If you don't get anywhere after the initial claim, you go straight to the top and write/email to the CEO direct. This currently seems to be a Dame Carolyn McCall.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@faithsdaddy, you are entitled to €250 compensation for each passenger.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gaza wrote: |
| @faithsdaddy, you are entitled to €250 compensation for each passenger. |
Yep, worked that bit out. Other costs incurred;
- Train fare home
- Fuel cost of driving to and from Southend Airport
- Loss of apartment
- Loss of ski & boot hire
- Loss of use of lift pass
- Loss of annual leave
- Significant stress, etc.
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| Gaza wrote: |
@faithsdaddy, can you elaborate a bit e.g.
* Where were flying from and to?
Gatwick to Geneva
* When/how did easyJet notify you the flight was cancelled?
Information board said to go to information. A few seconds prior to this, as I scanned my ticket, it said flight was on time
* What reason did they give for cancellation?
Staff shortages
* What alternatives were you offered?
Southend the next day, or Gatwick 2 days later
* What "care" were you offered?
None
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You know it makes sense.
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easyJet should have looked after you when the flight was cancelled. That should have included offering hotels and transport. In your case they should have offered transport to Southend and overnight accommodation and meals. I would submit a claim under Articles 5, 7 and 9 of the EU rules.
Liability for the 'loss' of the first day will be difficult to claim from easyJet. You should be able to claim for any additional costs such as a new transfer, but indirect loss is unlikely to be a goer.
You may have a better chance of getting something from your insurer but this will come under the "delay" section of your policy and is unlikely to pay out based on your estimate of what the loss of one day of your holiday is worth.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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EJ (and other airlines) usually go with 'Operational Reasons', which seems to be the catch all get out clause when they are too embarrassed to tell you the real reason. Since they told you it was cancelled due to staffing, you should have a solid claim.
I never had a cancellation when flying weekly with EJ, but had some bizarre delays. I once spent 40 mins on the tarmac at Luton after boarding, which I found out by hearing the cabin crew talking, was due to the crew meals not being loaded. Since this was a 80 minute flight to Geneva, I am sure they could either waited or picked up/bought food in Geneva.
Years ago when Air UK still existed, we were flying Stansted/Geneva, after hours of waiting at the gate telling us the was bad weather at our destination, they finally admitted that they couldn't fly because the aircraft didn't have the correct ALS (Automatic Landing System). So they were operating a plane that could not land during European winter conditions. Eventually they bused us to Heathrow and we flew BA.
I also had a work colleague who regularly flew to/from The Netherlands. On one trip they were 10 minutes from landing in the UK, and turned round and flew back to Schiphol. This turned out to be a maintenance issue, that they could safely fly with, but could not take off with. Since they did not have any maintenance facilities in the UK airport, they flew back to avoid the maintenance costs and aircraft downtime.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Here is a good summary of your rights under the EU 261 regulation.
It is focused on BA, but it applies to all EU-based airlines and flights originating or departing in the EU, the European Economic Area, and Switzerland.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
EJ (and other airlines) usually go with 'Operational Reasons', which seems to be the catch all get out clause when they are too embarrassed to tell you the real reason. Since they told you it was cancelled due to staffing, you should have a solid claim.
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Good luck with them confirming that, I assume you don't have that in writing? You will be told that it was operational reasons, not staffing, and no money.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| blahblahblah wrote: |
| PowderAdict wrote: |
EJ (and other airlines) usually go with 'Operational Reasons', which seems to be the catch all get out clause when they are too embarrassed to tell you the real reason. Since they told you it was cancelled due to staffing, you should have a solid claim.
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Good luck with them confirming that, I assume you don't have that in writing? You will be told that it was operational reasons, not staffing, and no money. |
He is entitled to compensation according to EU 261. Operational reasons is not a valid argument, nor is e.g. mechanical problems. The only escape an airline has is "extraordinary circumstances", which is undefined but my take on it would be erupting volcanoes etc.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| blahblahblah wrote: |
| PowderAdict wrote: |
EJ (and other airlines) usually go with 'Operational Reasons', which seems to be the catch all get out clause when they are too embarrassed to tell you the real reason. Since they told you it was cancelled due to staffing, you should have a solid claim.
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Good luck with them confirming that, I assume you don't have that in writing? You will be told that it was operational reasons, not staffing, and no money. |
It doesn't matter what they come up these days as the courts have ruled that for a claim to be denied due to "extraordinary circumstances" the circumstances have to be truly extraordinary. No longer can the claim that a fault or a crew member phoning in sick or being stuck on the M25 due to an accident is extraordinary. These types are now considered as being 'normal' circumstances that are part and part of running an airline and is airlines want to mitigate against them then they need to have more spare aircraft or crew on standby at airports.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@faithsdaddy,
Try using the Flight Delay/Complaints Resolver tool via the MoneySavingExpert website. It helps draft up letters of complaint, sends them directly to the airline, and lets you escalate your case if you haven't had a response within a certain number of days.
I was delayed for over 3 hours a few weeks back on a BA flight (technical reasons). After using this tool - I had a response from customer services within two days, and within a week I got confirmation that I qualified for compensation and that a cheque for €250 would be put in the post.
Fortunately I didn't have any other costs associated with being delayed - but I think you can upload receipts for out of pocket expenses via the tool.
Hope that helps! Good Luck.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@nicolahunter880, Welcome to SnowHeads. Good looking tool that, and also good to hear that it works.
If the compensation had been available when I was flying weekly on Business, I would have got thousands back in compensation over the years 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 11-04-16 17:15; edited 1 time in total
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@nicolahunter880, Thanks for that info, will make a note of it (and welcome to )
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@nicolahunter880, Thanks for that info, will make a note of it (an welcome to )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@nicolahunter880, welcome to snowHeads.
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Jet2 delayed a flight by 5 hrs going from LBA to AGP with my wife and daughter on. I claimed the stat comp laid down and it took about a year to get it. Responses from Jet2 included: you're not entitled; we are waiting for an appeal against the stat comp in the EU courts; you can't claim it has to be your wife; the booking reference isn't good enough we need in a letter the flight number, passenger names, length of delay etc etc (this one really annoyed me as it was just a last ditch attempt to get rid of us as they hhad all the info in earlier letters and it was all implicit in the booking reference). In the end though they had to pay as i wasn't going away.
Ryanair delayed a flight departing 3hrs15mins KRK to LBA with myself and 2 friends on. I claimed the stat comp laid down. Turns out the delay which counts is on arrival time not departure and with Ryanair always scheduling inflated flight durations (to ensure on time arrival stats), and with the pilot getting the hammer down, the delay wasn't 'long enough'. We were offered reimbursement on food and drink "if we had receipts"; I'ld used the lounge at KRK and the others hadn't kept receipts, so we got nowt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@nicolahunter880, I used plenty of advice off the MSE website to get the comp out of Jet2, I don't think the tool was up when I started, though it was by the time Jet2 coughed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Unfortunately, adverse weather, which can include a few flakes of snow, does qualify as 'exceptional circumstances' as I found out to my detriment. Bah!
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You know it makes sense.
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Yes, the "adverse weather" thing  . How come everything else in the air landed and took off again except for the Monarch plane which couldn't because of "low cloud". We sent off a claim but it was rejected. Now I don't believe the pilot was any less skilled than every other one flying at that time but how to prove that he didn't make that decision for safety reasons? I suspect an instrument malfunction.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@maggi, on my last trip back from Gib, I spent 2 hours waiting in the airport for our incoming EJ plane. This was actually sitting at Malaga as the weather at Gib was "too bad to land" (it was a little windy, which is the main problem there, but I've landed in much more wind than we had at that time). At exactly the time our flight was due to land, a Monarch plane did land, followed shortly by two others (also Monarch). These then all took off fine for their return journeys. Finally our plane appeared, but then aborted a landing, finally getting down on its second attempt. Talking to one of the Gib airport staff (who was clearly pi**ed off with the EJ crew - it was now about nearly 11pm and the airport would have normally been shut), he said the Monarch pilots are mostly ex-RAF so will land in most anything, whereas the EJ crews are simply commercial-trained so nowhere near as competent. So it sounds like your problem may have been equipment - I think mine was just incompetent pilots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Whole ting sounds rubbish, hope you get reimbursed or the costs. However...
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- Significant stress, etc.
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Significant stress? FFS! Such is life, life is full of stress. You may book with a TO if you don't like travel stress, if you book all the elements individually you need to be prepared to deal with the 'significant stress' of not everything going to plan.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| [Talking to one of the Gib airport staff (who was clearly pi**ed off with the EJ crew - it was now about nearly 11pm and the airport would have normally been shut), he said the Monarch pilots are mostly ex-RAF so will land in most anything, whereas the EJ crews are simply commercial-trained so nowhere near as competent. So it sounds like your problem may have been equipment - I think mine was just incompetent pilots. |
That is dangly bits I'm afraid. Monarch and easyJet have a range of crew. Both have ex-RAF and both have direct entry, ATPL, etc. Who/where you trained will have absolutely no affect on whether you try to land or not.
The thing with wind is that can vary enormously in a very short space of time. While 2 planes could land the third may be pushed off course by a strong gust and then have to go around. Each aircraft type will have an operating envelope e.g. crosswind limits. If this limit is forecast to be reached then the aircraft will divert to the alternate and wait for the forecast/actual to come to within limits. As well as the aircraft manufacturers operating limits some airlines will apply there own, more stringent, limits.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
Whole ting sounds rubbish, hope you get reimbursed or the costs. However...
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- Significant stress, etc.
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Significant stress? FFS! Such is life, life is full of stress. You may book with a TO if you don't like travel stress, if you book all the elements individually you need to be prepared to deal with the 'significant stress' of not everything going to plan. |
No need to be disrespectful. Of course, problems are always possible. Going with a TO doesn't guarantee no problems, just as there's no implication that I'm 'asking for it', by arranging my own trip. One hopes for the best and prepares for the worst.
Also, FWIW, it was stressful. It took several hours to sort out, which included armed guards intimidating us when 'the group' became vocal at our treatment. My elderly Mum had to get up at 2am and drive us to Southend Airport, which left her feeling unwell afterwards. Since I posted, I have made easily a dozen phone calls, yet this issue is still ongoing.
Whenever anyone intentionally flames like this, I always wonder if they would be so rude to my face, or if they hide, cowardly, behind the anonymity of their keyboard. They would certainly get a reaction they didn't like were they to do so. Personally, I wouldn't be rude this way. I would offer help or say nothing. Unconstructive criticism brings nothing to the table.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The last thing I would want in an airline pilot in "the right stuff".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Don't know why you are bothering with making a dozen phone calls. I'd make 2 at the most and then escalate. The CEOs email was given above but I would also send a "Notice before Action" to the Group Legal Director - Giles.Pemberton@easyjet.com . Outline your claim; giving them 14 days to respond and state that if they do not respond then you will file a claim with the Small Claims Court - https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk - without further communication.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
The last thing I would want in an airline pilot in "the right stuff".
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| Gaza wrote: |
| Don't know why you are bothering with making a dozen phone calls. I'd make 2 at the most and then escalate. The CEOs email was given above but I would also send a "Notice before Action" to the Group Legal Director - Giles.Pemberton@easyjet.com . Outline your claim; giving them 14 days to respond and state that if they do not respond then you will file a claim with the Small Claims Court - https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk - without further communication. |
Appreciate the advice Gaza. I have emailed the CEO a few times, but am not getting a reply. I'm waiting a call back from the legal team, via my insurance.
In the likely event of unhelpfulness from the Ski Club insurance people, I will go down the route you suggest.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Quick update- Ski Club insurance have washed their hands of me. All I asked for was for the 1/2 hour solicitor consultation, which is mentioned as a benefit on their policy.
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@faithsdaddy, can't see how SCGB Insurance can do that. As a minimum you are entitled to the "delay" payment specified in your policy document.
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FAQ
