Ski hire confusion

A snowHead

Just back from a week in the lovely resort of Azoriaz and was somewhat baffled by the service received from Skiset.
I've always hired skis and always been asked my height, weight, ability etc. Even earlier in the year from Skiset in Morzine was asked all these questions.

Last week though was given the same size skis as my daughter who is a foot smaller and half my weight and when I asked if they needed my ability, they just said "no, it's all the same"

So now I'm confused. Do they really need to know my height, weight and ability or were they just being lazy ? rolling eyes

A snowHead

Lazy IMV but I'm sure an expert will be along in a mo' to tell you why. Toofy Grin

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Agree, that sounds very odd. They will need this information to set the DIN correctly, which is pretty crucial if you don't want to end up in hospital. Some more experienced/lazy hire shop types can do this by eye. And if you were not able to be specific about what type of ski you wanted they probably assumed you were clueless so have given you a short ski with a low setting. Having said all that, the chances of you needing the same ski as your daughter that is half your weight and a foot shorter, are about zero. Poor/Lazy service.

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They need to know your height, weight, age and ability to set the bindings up correctly, regardless of what skis they have given you. So they were being lazy, irresponsible, and potentially putting you at risk of injury!

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Thanks for the reply. I thought they were just being lazy as the Morzine guys I've used twice were great.
These were 'free' hire via Sunweb so I assume they just thought I was a short fat bloke who couldn't ski and gave me what they had Very Happy

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Perhaps they were like those Italian boot fitting gods. They could guess your height & weight to within a gnats crotchet and as you are a Brit you must be a crap skier ... or they are just plain lazy.

After all it is free

You didnt ski with the short skis, did you?

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I used them at Avoriaz last year, and was a little surprised with the, "Here's your stuff, have a good time, come straight back if a problem" approach. There was no boot fitting as we were used to, but they were very helpful and polite. And, there are several Skiset shops in the village! And we had no problems.

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Ah the bun fight that is the rental shops with kids in tow.

More likely that they would be popping off at inopportune times if they were the same setup as your daughters. If they didnt then maybe they did at least get the DINs sort of right after eyeing you up. But doesnt sound great service.

To be honest, if you are hiring skis it's usually worth learning how to adjust bindings (it's not hard), and taking a flathead screwdriver to resort with you.

It's funny that you've had your experience, as it's usually the opposite. Normally ski shops will be quite strict about how they set your binding, because of the concern of being sued. If you snap your leg in a fall and it's deemed that the binding was at fault for not releasing, or indeed, if you come off prematurely because the binding released under too little force, you might have a case to sue the hire shop for not having set you the correct binding. Often then, the hire shops will ignore your request for a particular DIN setting, and instead weigh you, measure you, and set it. They will then record the setting in your hire agreement, so that if you choose to change the setting, and then have a prang, they're not in the frame for it.

I've even been to one place where you jump on a computer, which weighs you, lets you input your height and ability, and then you have to sign and date the printout before handing it over to the ski shop guys. It's quite formal but apparently it's increasingly common for injured skiers to attempt to sue the rental shop when they are injured in a manner that is deemed to have been caused by a binding not acting in the way they'd have wanted it to. (Note I say, "wanted it to", not "as it should").

Maybe just a sign of things to come, in a society where people (A) never want to take responsibility for their own actions, and (B) are fully aware that 'where theres a blame, there's a claim"... and no shortage of parasitic ambulances chasers to make that claim for you. Maybe rental shops will instead have to turn around and tell you to set your own bindings.

You know it makes sense.

Also to be honest I don't know if you can judge the shop. It's usually a case of who you get in the shop, and whether last night involved a pint and an early night, or 15 pints and waking up in the bed of somebody they didn't recognise with a flat phone battery, having to work out where the hell they were, what time it was, and how to get to work...

I used to hate Intersport but I went to their Les Houches branch last month out of sheer need for longer skis than Skimium had in stock, and the service was fantastic from a really friendly local guy. I broke a pole and a ski in the same week and they were really apologetic, and I spent the entire week trying out different skis and he was more than happy to keep changing them and offering the advice. But Intersport in Cham centre is a shop where not a single proverbial is available to be given at any time.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Unless things have changed Skiset don't own/run the shops they are just a booking agent, a bit like car dealers. As a result the level and quality of customer service can vary greatly, even between shops with the same branding in the same resort. It was also a free hire deal so you're hardly the shops most profitable customer. That shouldn't make a difference and quite possibly wouldn't in another Skiset shop, I think you just got the perfect storm of bad shop/low margin/possibly fitter having a bad day so he just chucked you the first set of basic skis that came to hand and probably wacked the bindings down to sneeze-and-release level.

I think you've just found one of the hand-full of skiing secrets no-one ever tells you - if you don't like your hire kit you're welcome/expected to take it back and ask for something different. I've done this a couple of times and only ever had "OK, no problem" with a smile as a response (though it was Austria - France would probably be a shrug). The other, related skiing secret that comes to mind is how ski boots are meant to fit/be put on and how tight the different buckles should be. Normally you only get taught this after weeks of uncomfortable skiing when you splash out on your own properly fitted boots.

A snowHead

A snowHead

If you didn't notice until you were actually skiing them & then didn't necessarily find them unskiable - there judgement may prove to have been justified.

Otherwise I think the secret is to trust no hire shop "expert" anymore than you would a complete stranger until they have proven their expertise. I once asked someone involved in a management level at a US resort what they were looking for when recruiting staff e.g. for rental shops and the response was "a pulse", ability to turn up everyday on time was considered a bonus.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@dp, I have always found walking in undone ski boots horribly uncomfortable. They rub.

A friend who rented basic beginner skis through a local Skimium shop was initially (rightly) given short skis went back and swapped them for longer ones as he improved through the week. There was no problem about this. When you make a booking with Skimium you are asked for height and weight.

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Used Skiset in Courchevel 1850 recently on a hefty discount code, provided exactly the skis I asked for (booked online but followed up with e-mail) ... set them up to my boots ... I swapped skis for a powder day no arguement excellent service ... if only all ski hire shops were as helpful

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There are 2 considerations here - the ski length, and the DIN (release) setting. Both are primarily based on the force that you put through the ski, which depends (in order of importance) on your weight, ability and how aggressively you ski. Someone's who's used to it can make a pretty decent estimate of these by sight (weight and how aggressively you ski), nationality and whether you ask for a particular type of ski (which gives a first order guess as to whether you're a beginner/immediate, or more advanced).

The above affect both the ski length and DIN setting. Other factors specific to one or the other are: ski length depends on the ski model (at the extreme ends, I might use a 155cm slalom ski and 190cm high-speed off-piste ski, both appropriate for the force I apply), and DIN can be affected at extremes by height and foot length.

So, it's possible that the OP and daughter got different model skis that happened to be the same length as each other, but were both appropriate based on a approximate weight and skiing ability, and the DINs were both also set appropriately. More likely is that it was busy (was this over Easter ?), and the ski shop was low on stock, and happened to have more of the length ski they gave out, so that's what they gave you, and they probably got the DINs pretty much right in each case.

After all it is free

@biddpyat, adjustments to the DIN from the chart are made for young children and adults over 50. If you are clearly within that range, they wouldn't have needed to ask you.

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To be honest, I am cynical to believe that, regardless of the amount of time you've been doing it for, you can look at somebody and hand them a pair of skis to their suiting. There are charts for ski size, and DIN setting... but these are guidelines not gospel.

The cheat sheet is a good start. But beyond that, people have different abilities, and different preferences. I'm well over 2m tall and I ride 184cm skis which by all accounts are a bit short but it's just impractical to buy skis any bigger - they're harder to find, and certainly harder to fly with (BAA's length limit for hold luggage being 190cm). But in the right conditions I've been known to hire something like a 162 for the day just to mess around in. That's not to say that either would be the right ski to give me on assumption.

Of course, one of the inevitabilities of hiring skis, is that the hire shop will generally assume you are a reasonably novice skier because if you were any better you'd have your own. (This is, of course, not necessarily true. I won't bother dragging my skis around the airport for any less than 3 days on the snow). So unless you pipe up, they will generally give you a pair of relatively middle-of-the-road all mountain skis, about 10cm shorter than your height, and err on the side of caution when setting the DIN on the binding.

What I'm trying to get to, is that:
a) I'm reasonably against ski shops setting the DIN without weighing you, and asking your ability. That setting could be the difference between doing most of the run on your backside, or spending the next 6 months in a wheel chair. There's no excuse not to confirm it on the scales.
b) I'm reasonably against ski shops giving you a short ski without asking you about your skiing ability and style. It's not so much of a safety thing, but the wrong size ski can be relatively hard work and make the week a bit less fun for you.
c) Know roughly what you want before you go in - IE a rough ski length, know your weight and height and your ability level (describe it to them... "I'm happy on reds and easy blacks" or whatever).
d) Visit the ski shop outside of peak times. If you go in when it's empty, you're far more likely to get an attentive personal service, than when they're trying to issue to a room full of eager beavers, especially in a certain popular skiing nation where the natives are not known for their queueing prowess.
e) And finally, if you have a really good week with hire skis, write down what they were and how long they were before you give them back. It'll mean you can ask for the same thing, or something similar, next time you go; and of course mean you know what you're looking for when the end-of-season sales come around!

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@biddpyat, @Scarlet, and there's also an adjustment for complete beginners over 25... But it's probably pretty obvious when someone is hiring skis if they are a complete beginner and this one might be relevant. A few years ago France was also trialling an adjustment by gender, on the basis that women ski with their brains and men ski with testosterone (!)

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Ski hire confusion

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