 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
No it doesn't a problem occurs when a Belgian pulls out in front of you carves you up causes you to brake hard and someone rams you up the a**e at 100 mph
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
We were the only irish plated car I saw all the way back from Les Deux Alpes to Cherbourg, any other snowheads on their way back from skiing, to Ireland. We are currently on Ferry from Cherbourg to Rosslare, having emigrated to Ireland from UK 4 weeks ago. !!!!!!
An irish plate sure confuses everyone. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@halfhand, I think their only "problem" is driving too close, otherwise it's fine. They do seem to expect you to pull out in front of them as long as you're definite about it, then get on, driving at the speed limit and pull in as soon as you can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| billb wrote: |
| @halfhand, I think their only "problem" is driving too close, otherwise it's fine. They do seem to expect you to pull out in front of them as long as you're definite about it, then get on, driving at the speed limit and pull in as soon as you can. |
Too close , too fast , too erratic , no anticipation of what's coming up ahead & that's my impression of it after 570 miles surrounded by them yesterday
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Dear All
Don't move to the Middle East. You wouldn't last 5 minutes.
P.S. I also think the Belgians are the worst drivers in Europe (but I've never driven in Russia so they could be worse) but they would be excellent drivers in Kuwait, Saudi or Qatar. Actually, not excellent. Too bloody slow, leave gaps of at least a car length and use their indicators - what's that all about?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Markab1971, I think I may have unintentionally imposed my own thread drift and was including French drivers. But, yes, I would agree with you that Belgian drivers are more challenging, shall we say........
I seem to remember seeing a lot of Belgian plates when driving to LDA last Easter. Maybe lots of them typically go at Easter?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| billb wrote: |
@Markab1971, I think I may have unintentionally imposed my own thread drift and was including French drivers. But, yes, I would agree with you that Belgian drivers are more challenging, shall we say........
I seem to remember seeing a lot of Belgian plates when driving to LDA last Easter. Maybe lots of them typically go at Easter? |
The whole of Belgium seem to go at Easter ! Last Easter they seemed to be heading down as we were heading back , this year there Easter school holidays coincided exactly with the U.K. School holidays.
I must say for a country of around 12 million or so they do travel well
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Markab1971, the great majority of cars in my area are always French. There are plenty of Belgians but this is very much low season in French terms so the slopes AND roads are quiet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
in germany of course.
E40 west of brussels is nose to tail, 5 microns between cars, all going exactly 120km/h on the speedo
E40 east of brussels (well east of Leuven) is empty, but the worst road surfaces in Western Europe, and everyone does 120
Austria and Slovenia are the most civilised I've driven in recently. Everyone drives bang on the speed limit. I stick it on cruise control, and rarely even have to nudge the button up or down 1km/h.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Having just driven up through France today, I must say that the journey was without incident and I would rather put up with the odd bit of poor driving from a Belgian, French or British driver I saw on the continent to the awful driving by many more on the M20 and M25 this afternoon where the whole driving experience is rather unpleasant.
The only thing I noticed throughout the drive in France was a British motorhome that must have left the road as it was 'parked' in the woods some 30 metres off the autoroute - it looked unscathed so hopefully they were OK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
That's another ski season over for me, back to work this morning  roll on next season Italy and Austria for my couple of trips I'm thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| andy wrote: |
Italy is a strange one. Rome is really bad. Turin is not bad. Around Rome there are 2 rules... 1. you take care of the front and right of your car (and by definition the rear and left are taken care of by other drivers taking care of their front/right). 2. if a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Zonda etc. come up behind, you let them pass (such beautiful cars are to be admired, not observed in a rear view mirror).
In Turin they wear seatbelts, and observe traffic lights. In Rome, a Turin driver would get pulled for stopping at a light that's going red, and then questioned why they are wearing a seatbelt.
|
Italy is like several different countries so far as driving is concerned.
My introduction to driving in Italy was starting from Naples airport, driving down to Santa Maria di Castellabate. Virtually the first thing as we got onto the motorway were a set of tollbooths where the motorway narrowed down from 8 lanes? to 4. It was just a case of every car forcing their way in, with little regard to whether they were going to get bumped!
In that part of Italy, more cars had dents than not. And even our hire car picked up a minor dent during the week - when somebody bashed it in a car park, which the hire company rep just glanced at and said "OK" when we returned it.
But then a year or two later, we took a holiday in the Dolomites in September, and the driving standard (and quality of vehicles) was entirely different. Much more careful and considerate, and most cars pretty well pristine. But also more German cars than Italian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I drive to Turin a fair bit in a year, normally picking and taking friends / family to the airport ten to twelve times per season plus three or four road trips further afield.
To drive round Turin involves their equivalent of their M25, or the A55 Tangenzial Nord di Torino.
And I can guarantee you that if you drive the short stretch of 15 or so miles you will see some truly breathtaking bonkers driving, it must be some sort of local Torino bravado thing to drive like that.
Not just simple flashing of you to pull over, but right up your back bottom (even worse having an English plate), then if that doesn't work undertaking maybe two lanes or more and then trying to get in front of you and not just one car, usually involves a couple who are having a race, and pretty well usually in small Fiats / Alfa's.
And as for signals, think Italians just see them as a design accessory that are purely there for the aesthetic lines of the car 
Though I do admire the motor cyclists that come out at the weekends to ride the mountain roads, on a par with Guy Martin, though my Italian neighbours advise me that Monday Torino newspapers are full of reports of weekend accidents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Italy is like several different countries so far as driving is concerned.
|
can't disagree with that.
Dolomites area really did surprise me.
Lived in Turin for a bit, and the Tangenziale might not be a glowing example of commonsense, but the bonkers driving is nothing compared to Rome GRA (in particular the Eastern side) which we have to negotiate to get to our Frascati office. We even have colleagues that refuse to get a rental car, and prefer to pay €100 for a taxi.
In UK and Germany, people use headlights to signal "Oi! get out of my way!" when overtaking in the fast lane. In Italy, at least in the vicinity of Rome, you drive with left wheels in the road debris near the central barrier, and keep the left hand indicator on permanently. Which tbf, is probably about the only time an Italian does use an indicator. And you only need the car getting out of the way to move over half a lane, thereby getting about 4-5 lanes out of a 3 lane (plus a tiny hard shoulder) autostrada. But they still leave more space than a Belgian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@andy, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I often use the old It's a Knockout phrase when I see someone thrashing down the outside lane in the rain.... "Here come the Belgians!"....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Some of my greatest friends are Belgian, but it was like running the gauntlet last week in our village, some don't seem to understand No Parking signs and just pull out without looking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
In Italy I've only driven in Genoa, Turin, the Dolomites and the Frejus and MB tunnels and motorways in between. Not had any problems, really. Once you get used to their odd way of signposting lanes.
Can imagine it's a different kettle of fish in the South.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
When we stopped at one of the services on the way back from the Alps on Saturday, there was a (lighthearted) chat going on between several English drivers stood at the urinals, about how shocked they were by the Belgians and their somewhat free-spirited approach to overtaking. Just fyi, I wasn't involved in the chat. I prefer to pee in silence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
When in Italy in January I nearly ploughed into the back of an Italian after she stopped on the autostrada just before a slip road put her hazard lights on to do a text. !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Markab1971 wrote: |
| Why are the belgians who flooded the autoroutes this past week such poor drivers ? Travel too fast too close pull out on you when there's clearly a huge gap behind when you overtake them . They seem to have no awareness of what's around them ! I was gripping my asscheeks every time I passed one in case I got carved up ! Horrendous drivers ! |
That sounds like a description of British drivers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Stuttgart (main route from Karlsruhe), early morning rush hour, 8am. Autobahns converge/diverge (6 lanes at one point, I think). Scary as fuck. I'm not a nervous or particularly intimidated driver, but the speed that cars (mostly local Germans) were moving at, crossing lanes, diving into gaps, hard braking, moving from stationary into fast-flowing traffic, required nerves of steel.
Mine were shredded when an articulated lorry decided to move out of a queue, into the path of a car that had just pulled into the lane the lorry wanted, causing him to swerve out into the lane I was occupying and travelling on at about 100kph. I then had to swerve into the outside lane and still am not sure how I didn't hit him. Fortunately, there was a break in the outside lane traffic that I'd moved into. A rare gap, and lane that was habitually occupied by cars travelling at 150kph+.
On balance, I still think the Belgians are the worst
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Sounds like where the A81 and A8 merge at Leonberg (just W. of Stuttgart), before they split again a few minutes later. There is an art to that junction, which is actually sort of a double junction just to spice things up a bit.
Thankfully I rarely see Belgians (or Brits) there. But it is "interesting" trying to move over 3 lanes while trucks are moving 2 lanes the other way, and it's always busy.
If you come from the Heilbronn bit rather than Karlsruhe/Pforzheim, you also go thru a tunnel right before the junction, and the satnav gives up just at the point where you need to get in the right lane, just to make it even more fun for tourists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Cacciatore, ? is that Belgian for rule 5 ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Many years ago I used to visit customers in Belgium and Holland. The driving was noticeably worse in Belgium - too fast, too close and very little hazard awareness that I could see. It's not just a UK/Belgian cultural driving difference.
Last couple of years driving to and from the alps we definitely saw a Belgian plate as a hazard warning sign. Noticeably worse than the French.
I do think French driving style is more different than better/worse than British. Their lane discipline is better. Their speed awareness (appropriateness to conditions) is similar. I dislike the way that they pull back in right in front of your headlights (causing the collision warning light to come on in our car) - Brits tend to give you some clear space before they pull in. But the main thing which I think British drivers do better (or just more thoughtfully) is to anticipate other drivers moves and allow for them.
Classic example is when you are in the middle lane and look ahead to see a car in the inside lane closing on a truck - I think at least 50% of Brits will recognise that the car will need to pull out even before the other driver begins to indicate and do something to allow them to move out - ease off, move to the outside lane or accelerate to pass them before they need to pull out. IME most French drivers don't attempt to do this. In many case they don't make allowances even if when you indicate. Seems like the attitude is that it is your problem - you'll just have to brake and wait for me to pass. I suppose you could just call it a different etiquette but I do think it is an objectively worse way of driving.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@jedster, why do the French think that indicators are optonal and something that if you do choose to use them, you only do so after you've completed your manoeuvre?
And they've had roundabouts for some time, surely they know how to use them by now?
Re cars on inside lanes closing on trucks: my driving instructor said that Rule #1 was "never do anything that causes another driver to have to do something" (or words to that effect, long time ago.
My take on cars approaching trucks (after living out here for 10 years) is that it's the driver in the inside lane who has to either accelerate to match the speed of the traffic flow (which might just be me) or brake and wait for a space. If they're paying attention, they'll plan adequately in advance.
If it is just me, and I'm not going to force following cars to change speed, I'll hold back to let them out.
Rarely happens though...
Has to be said that friends contemplated learning and doing their tests in France and were most surprised to discover that the expectation in the test is that you don't drive per the highway code but per real world conditions ... which explains Paris...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Living on a diet of beer, chocolate and porn , it's no wonder.
I think driving in the UK is pretty bad and far prefer driving ( on toll roads) in France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
IMO, toll roads in France are possibly the best in the world (sans Belgians). Major caveat: I've no actual, personal evidence to back that up but they are pretty damn good...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Wouldn't go that far.
Toll road in Kansas was better. Everyone drives exactly 70. Including trucks.
Austria, IME is better.
Slovenia is better, but weird, in that you need a vignette, but still go thru toll booths.
East Germany is good too. Totally different to West Germany. Ace autobahns, no toll booths, just faster, and emptier. Although I am assuming that they have now fixed the tarmac over cobblestones (not a joke) autobahn between Dresden and Berlin. Dresden to Poland is ace, and then gets even better once you cross the border.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
she commented on how every other car was Belgian and how they all seemed to have the habit of driving 3cm from the bumper of the car in front, or undertaking and cutting into the braking space between her and the car in front leaving her with the choice of braking again or being 3cm from their bumper!
