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Belgians

 Poster: A snowHead
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Why are the belgians who flooded the autoroutes this past week such poor drivers ? Travel too fast too close pull out on you when there's clearly a huge gap behind when you overtake them . They seem to have no awareness of what's around them ! I was gripping my asscheeks every time I passed one in case I got carved up ! Horrendous drivers !
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@Markab1971, Yep, and worst roads in western Europe. Bit of a generalisation about the drivers but I have to say many drive like idiots and the motorways are a disgrace (apart from the immediate area around Brussels, strange that!!)
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Was there anyone left in Belgium last week ? as there was what seemed like the whole population of Belgium in the French Alps
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@Markab1971, there was no driving test in Belgium until 1977 => there's still a not insignificant number of driving on the roads who have never taken a driving test, but just obtained their licence by filling in a form and handing over the appropriate fee.
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You didn't have to sit a test to get a licence in Belgium until 1977 which means motorists older than 55 or so may never have been taught how to drive...
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@under a new name, snap! Happy
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Many Belgians are indeed bad drivers. But my Belgian friend and neighbour Christian, who lends (not rents) me his apartment is a lovely guy, with a wonderful family. They visited us in Emsworth and the OH and I visited them and went kayaking on the Meuse.

Weird old place, Belgium. Not a functioning nation state. When Belgian civil servants sat in on one of our Civil Service Selection Boards for Fast Stream candidates they were astonished that our decision was final, and that politicians had no role in deciding who came to the Board, who passed or where they were sent to work.
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Having lived a number of years in Belgium, but not being a Belgian myself, my observations are - belgians are the best in-city drivers I know. While city driving, very polite and predictable. What happens when they get outside the cities - I have no idea, but have to agree indeed, one of the worst "species" of autoroutes drivers. My theory is that they make no distinction between city and non-city driving and assume that when changing lanes, overtking, etc, the speed does not matter and all people arround them are aware of their manouvres ... In addition, many Belgians drive company cars with petrol etc covered by the employer, so on autoroutes they press to the max as it it is not their cars per se
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Having driven in a lot of countries around the world over the years , I have come to the conclusion that uk driving standards are much better than in most other countries . Am I wrong?
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Markab1971 wrote:
Having driven in a lot of countries around the world over the years , I have come to the conclusion that uk driving standards are much better than in most other countries . Am I wrong?
Compared to Sweden I would say you are wrong. British drivers(myself included) do not inspire me with confidence in wintry conditions probably due to the lack of experience of these conditions.

In general I find UK drivers quite aggressive and not keen to pullin when meeting another car on narrow roads
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Rabbie wrote:
Markab1971 wrote:
Having driven in a lot of countries around the world over the years , I have come to the conclusion that uk driving standards are much better than in most other countries . Am I wrong?
Compared to Sweden I would say you are wrong. British drivers(myself included) do not inspire me with confidence in wintry conditions probably due to the lack of experience of these conditions.

In general I find UK drivers quite aggressive and not keen to pullin when meeting another car on narrow roads


Surely on a narrow road its 50/50 to pull into the side , I use a narrow road every day to work in my van and can always see the ones in there nice new bmw or evoque who don't want to get there wheels muddy , so if they don't move I don't move , guess who moves eventually ...

I still say for motorway driving , speed awareness and conditions awareness ours is one of the best
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
on the E40 in particular, to the west side of Brussels, it is the law to get as close as possible to the car in front. Then you can get more cars on the road.
I wouldn't put UK drivers anywhere near the top tbh, although it's quite regional. Bristol I found very arrogant, and especially roundabouts, you don't look to see what's coming to see if it's clear to pull out, but you look in the rear view mirror to see if it's safe to brake at the give way line. In germany, all the idiots are in the slow or centre lane (and oblivoius to what they are doing). In UK they're all in the fast lane (that are more important than you because they have a company audi/bmw with get out of my way lights on). Holland are ultra sensible on the snelweg (or were when it was 120 kmh speed limit), but like Bristolians at any junctions, to the extent that they put in speed humps at every traffic lights, since everyone was a "red=stop, green=go, yellw=go very fast" driver.
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speed awareness in UK? not on the motorway. unless the speed limit got changed to 85 in my absence.
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You know it makes sense.
andy wrote:
on the E40 in particular, to the west side of Brussels, it is the law to get as close as possible to the car in front. Then you can get more cars on the road.
I wouldn't put UK drivers anywhere near the top tbh, although it's quite regional. Bristol I found very arrogant, and especially roundabouts, you don't look to see what's coming to see if it's clear to pull out, but you look in the rear view mirror to see if it's safe to brake at the give way line. In germany, all the idiots are in the slow or centre lane (and oblivoius to what they are doing). In UK they're all in the fast lane (that are more important than you because they have a company audi/bmw with get out of my way lights on). Holland are ultra sensible on the snelweg (or were when it was 120 kmh speed limit), but like Bristolians at any junctions, to the extent that they put in speed humps at every traffic lights, since everyone was a "red=stop, green=go, yellw=go very fast" driver.


Law to get as close to the car in front at 100 mph ! You having a laugh ?
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andy wrote:
speed awareness in UK? not on the motorway. unless the speed limit got changed to 85 in my absence.


What's the speed limit on French autoroutes , I read the signs as 130 kph in the dry & 110 in the rain or has that now changed then without the French authorities telling us to 150 kph plus ?
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Poster: A snowHead
The annual thread Toofy Grin

Before I saw this I posted in the Serre thread how the Belgians were highly visible yesterday, and if you think it's bad in a car you want to try cycling up a mountain with them coming and going !!

And Belgians in Audi's are even worse, but then that's true for most Audi drivers Toofy Grin
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Gämsbock wrote:
@Markab1971, there was no driving test in Belgium until 1977 => there's still a not insignificant number of driving on the roads who have never taken a driving test, but just obtained their licence by filling in a form and handing over the appropriate fee.


And as the number plate stays with the driver, it means generally to stay away from those with only five-digit plates.

In my experience, Belgians are not very good drivers. Dutch are rather aggressive. But I really don't know what you're complaining about - I don't see any mention of Portuguese in this thread... Very Happy

European national road death stats always used to put the Portuguese and the Greeks on top (bottom?) - then the central and Eastern Europeans joined. Just don't go near the Baltic states, that's my advice.
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Driving through Belgium the other week, I wondered at the sense of re-creating the Somme on one of the autoroutes. One of the trenches running down the middle of the road was so deep, I'm sure I spotted a pickelhaube or two sticking out!
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I was on the autoroute yesterday, coming back from the Alps and indeed there were a lot of Belgian plates to be seen. The driving seemed to be fine apart from all those English folk sat on the wrong side of the car!

Statistically I wonder who are the best drivers? Youngsters who've just passed a test, oldsters who've been driving many years (and perhaps never taken a test), or those entitled folk of all ages who genuinely believe they are the 'best drivers on the road'?
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Quote:

The annual thread

pretty much

yes, the Belgians are shyte drivers.
no, that doesn't mean British or any other nation are "good" drivers.
Italy is a strange one. Rome is really bad. Turin is not bad. Around Rome there are 2 rules... 1. you take care of the front and right of your car (and by definition the rear and left are taken care of by other drivers taking care of their front/right). 2. if a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Zonda etc. come up behind, you let them pass (such beautiful cars are to be admired, not observed in a rear view mirror).
In Turin they wear seatbelts, and observe traffic lights. In Rome, a Turin driver would get pulled for stopping at a light that's going red, and then questioned why they are wearing a seatbelt.
In Moscow, the only rule is "pray". Forget how shyte the driving is, and it's on a totally different scale, have you seen the ambulances?
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I found Americans pretty good drivers, though that was a long time ago. On a very snowy motorway, from Boston to Chicago, 3 of us driving 2 cars. Only one lane cleared, drove hour after hour with cars well spaced out, no tailgating, vno kamikaze dashing down the outside lane. Much more disciplined than any European drivers I'd encountered. And on a long road trip, thousands of miles, practically no daftness to be seen. And a big Hertz car for $99 a month, unlimited mileage. Little Angel
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It seems to me lane discipline in the UK is the worst in, at least, Northern Europe.
How often do the first 2 lanes have 3 cars and a truck between them while a dozen+ cars sit nose to tail in the overtaking lane?
Germans, French and dare I say even Belgians seem to clear the OT lane far more readily.
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Belgy wrote:
I was on the autoroute yesterday, coming back from the Alps and indeed there were a lot of Belgian plates to be seen. The driving seemed to be fine apart from all those English folk sat on the wrong side of the car!

Statistically I wonder who are the best drivers? Youngsters who've just passed a test, oldsters who've been driving many years (and perhaps never taken a test), or those entitled folk of all ages who genuinely believe they are the 'best drivers on the road'?


Fine by who's standards ? Mr ,Mrs ,mz "belgy" Wink
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admin wrote:
It seems to me lane discipline in the UK is the worst in, at least, Northern Europe.
How often do the first 2 lanes have 3 cars and a truck between them while a dozen+ cars sit nose to tail in the overtaking lane?
Germans, French and dare I say even Belgians seem to clear the OT lane far more readily.


Two lanes all the way to Calais yesterday from PDS , whenever there was a truck to overtake you could guarantee the traffic would slow , Belgians would pull out on each other causing others to brake heavily instead of looking well ahead pulling out in plenty of time keeping good momentum and equally the traffic flowing
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andy wrote:

In Moscow, the only rule is "pray". Forget how shyte the driving is, and it's on a totally different scale, have you seen the ambulances?


Very Happy

I arrived in Moscow in June 1993, and the British lady in the (international) office invited us out to a restaurant to lunch. She'd drive us to the restaurant.

I don't know if it was 10 minutes or 30 minutes away - all I know is I got out shaking, and nearly kissed the ground in gratitude for surviving the journey.

With the national sport being alcoholism, machismo, the Wild East, the Novii Russkii "my car (money stash) is bigger than yours", a large number of people owning guns due to the horrific crime rate, and the easily bribable "menti" - glad I never drove there.

No idea what it's like 20 years later but I don't feel the need to find out.
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Quote:

Fine by who's standards ? Mr ,Mrs ,mz "belgy" Wink

By whose standards? What are you suggesting? I was trying to apply your Belgians bad, English good, universally applicable scale Very Happy
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[quote="Belgy"]I was on the autoroute yesterday, coming back from the Alps and indeed there were a lot of Belgian plates to be seen. The driving seemed to be fine

By who's standards , English , Belgium , Dutch , German , Portuguese ?
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admin wrote:
It seems to me lane discipline in the UK is the worst in, at least, Northern Europe.
How often do the first 2 lanes have 3 cars and a truck between them while a dozen+ cars sit nose to tail in the overtaking lane?
Germans, French and dare I say even Belgians seem to clear the OT lane far more readily.


Was just about to post the same. I've always been impressed with German and French motorway lane discipline.
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I stand by my original quote that generally Belgian standard of driving is poor .

I've nothing against Belgian people though , a group I met whilst waiting for my son at the snow park were very hospitable offered me beer and had a photo shoot together !!!! Very Happy Very Happy
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Markab1971 wrote:
Why are the belgians who flooded the autoroutes this past week such poor drivers ? Travel too fast too close pull out on you when there's clearly a huge gap behind when you overtake them . They seem to have no awareness of what's around them ! I was gripping my asscheeks every time I passed one in case I got carved up ! Horrendous drivers !


I would love to see how bad they really are. The roads around Chambery and Lyon have been gridlocked with them this weekend. The A43 yesterday was not moving, many kilometres of tailbacks, couldn't possibly comment on how good their driving was as they weren't going anywhere!!! . I have to say there were a fair few Brits on the peage too! God I hate school holidays here!
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emmaski wrote:
Markab1971 wrote:
Why are the belgians who flooded the autoroutes this past week such poor drivers ? Travel too fast too close pull out on you when there's clearly a huge gap behind when you overtake them . They seem to have no awareness of what's around them ! I was gripping my asscheeks every time I passed one in case I got carved up ! Horrendous drivers !


I would love to see how bad they really are. The roads around Chambery and Lyon have been gridlocked with them this weekend. The A43 yesterday was not moving, many kilometres of tailbacks, couldn't possibly comment on how good their driving was as they weren't going anywhere!!! . I have to say there were a fair few Brits on the peage too! God I hate school holidays here!


Lots of uk plates on the autoroute back up to Calais , all driving flawlessly with respect for their fellow road users Wink
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Puzzled...in the middle lane Laughing
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Of course Smile on a two lane motorway Wink
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@emmaski, I drove down through the Arly Valley and along the A40 to Geneva airport and back on Saturday and the roads were quiet. And as the 110 winter speed limit on the A40 has been cancelled, traffic was very zippy. The Belgians can't visit the Grand Massif, the Portes du Soleil or Chamonix in any numbers. There are quite a few here at the moment but not enough to cause traffic jams and there were no lift queues either. Our group of 6 had several runs entirely to ourselves. Little Angel
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The A43 is a hotspot for ski traffic around the tunnel du chat and Dullin as well as the Chambery peage heading south. Cannot speak for other roads but they were certainly heading to the mountains judging on the number of sledges, skis and roofboxes on top of their cars.
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@pam w, the majority of cars in chatel were Belgium from what we saw , lots of uk registered one too & a splattering of Dutch and Germans
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halfhand wrote:
admin wrote:
It seems to me lane discipline in the UK is the worst in, at least, Northern Europe.
How often do the first 2 lanes have 3 cars and a truck between them while a dozen+ cars sit nose to tail in the overtaking lane?
Germans, French and dare I say even Belgians seem to clear the OT lane far more readily.


Was just about to post the same. I've always been impressed with German and French motorway lane discipline.


+1. The French, Dutch, Germans and Belgians may drive right up to your rear bumper but they pull into the right hand lane promptly. Also, the French seem to expect you to pull out in front of them - but they don't dither and don't expect you to. You have to be definite with manouvers.. Once you know what's going on, you join in and drive like them although I always allow a much greater gap in front.
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[quote="billb"]
halfhand wrote:
admin wrote:
It seems to me lane discipline in the UK is the worst in, at least, Northern Europe.
How often do the first 2 lanes have 3 cars and a truck between them while a dozen+ cars sit nose to tail in the overtaking lane?
Germans, French and dare I say even Belgians seem to clear the OT lane far more readily.


Was just about to post the same. I've always been impressed with German and French motorway lane discipline.


. " Once you know what's going on, you join in and drive like them although I always allow a much greater gap in front."

That's a contradiction if I've ever read one
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Quote:

Once you know what's going on, you join in and drive like them although I always allow a much greater gap in front.


The problem occurs when we bring those continental motorway driving styles to our roads and motorways.
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@Markab1971, yes you're correct, my apologies . I should have referred to the pulling out in front of them specifically rather than the driving up to the car in front's bumper.
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