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Can I take my 11 week old baby on a ski lift?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
snowymum wrote:
The effect of altitude cannot be the same in a plane as up a mountain. Presumably due to the plane being pressurised.
.

Airplanes fly far higher than ski resorts but the airpressure in the aeroplane is equivalent to moderately high altitudes 1800-2400m.

People with significant respiratory illenss sometimes cannot fly or have to have oxygen supplies, babies are fine.


http://www.who.int/ith/mode_of_travel/cab/en/
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Babies are born and live in the Himalayas, right?
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@snowymum, a small baby in a sling is a completely different kettle of fish to a wriggly 2 year old. With the toddler we put her in a harness with a handle which dad hung onto tightly.
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There are two separate potential issues. 1) Rate of ascent, and 2) risk of "altitude sickness" in its various forms (AMS, HAPE and HACE).

Age 10-12 weeks we took ours on various gondolas and chairlifts in the Chamonix valley. However, for anything with a fast rate of ascent/descent my wife fed them to help them equalise. The pressure change on the gondola lifts is little different to a plane on takeoff (where we would also feed them). However, going up slowly in a lift is _not_ about acclimatisation, its simply allowing time for equalisation.

I'm not aware of any altitude medicine research that indicates babies acclimatise worse than adults - indeed there is little correlation of anything (age, fitness, asthma, smoker/nonsmoker) with altitude sickness and there is one meta-study which shows no greater prevalence of AMS in infants vs adults. However, infants are unable to articulate any problems which materially increases the risks if you're going to 3000m+.

Thus I would imagine that Chamonix's Aiguille du Midi cable car is barred to those under five because it has both a high ascent rate and it goes very high. The Le Tour gondola, on the other hand, ascending from 1400m to 1800m over the course of about 10 minutes, strikes me as safer than the bus journey to get there.
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queen bodecia wrote:
Babies are born and live in the Himalayas, right?


It's being born there that counts.
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Right. The Peruvians had babies on the Altiplano but all the Spanish ones died. But that's mega high.
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Medically speaking...

High Altitude - 1500m - 3500m
Very High Altitude - 3500m - 5500m
Extreme Altitude - 5500m - 8000m
Death Zone - 8000m+

Altitude sickness is fairly common starting at 2400m+

No ski resort in Europe goes above 3500m that I'm aware of (Some get pretty close at the highest points).

I believe the issue with babies is the rapid increase and decrease in altitude is what people maybe highlighting as a problem but honestly can't find anything that says either way.

http://ismm.org/tl_files/infocenter/ISMM_Children_at_Altitude.pdf this study from 2001 looking at the risk factors indicates not much study has been performed on children and high altitudes, the main issue with very young children and babies is they cannot communicate with you that they are suffering from altitude sickness etc.

Oxygen decreases exponentially with air pressure as altitude increases and 1500m is very different than 2500m and 3500m.

http://www.who.int/ith/mode_of_travel/cab/en/ cabin air pressure is basically 1800m-2400m.

Based on this I'd certainly stay below 2000m-2400m with a very small child..

Of course we are talking Low altitude accustom humans going to high altitude, studies show people living at very high altitudes of 3000m+ in the andes and Himalayas have evolutionary modifications and can live at very high altitudes easily see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@snowymum, you are confounding where you are with the conditions you are experiencing.

A commercial jet airliner typically has its cabin air pressure set at the equivalent to being at 2,400m above sea level.

So it's more or less the same as being on a mountain at 2,400m.

Not having small babies, and thus having a more direct attitude, I submit that being up a 2,400m mountain is therefore as dangerous, or not, it air pressure terms, as taking a flight that cruises at e.g. 39,000 feet.

Mind you, we only use 10% of our brains, and such, so you know, commonly known heuristics and mid-wives tales are a much better way to think about things.
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Talking of babies in back packs....
A few years back in Alpe d'huez I pointed out to my ski instructor a man with a small baby in a back pack just about to enter the tunnel to start the black tunnel run. She wasn't impressed with him and stopped him immediately, threatening to confiscate his pass if he didn't go straight back down in the lift with the baby.
What a nutter even thinking of doing it.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 18-03-16 18:42; edited 1 time in total
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That's horrific but has no relevance to the OP's question about taking a baby up a chairlift.
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Idris wrote:
Errrr, NO. Taking a 11 week old to a high altitude ski resort is a very bad idea, taking them up a ski lift is trying to kill them - if you don't believe me go ask any doctor who understand altitude.

This is a constant problem for the lift staff in Chamonix, sight seeing tourists are told they can't take their infant (under 5) up the lift, buy the tickets anyway and then get upset when they are refused entry.

On the old Helbronner I saw infants turning blue in the cafe - parents (yes they were british) got very upset with me and then the lift staff when they were told they had to go down immediately or their child would be going without them - I heard at a later date form the staff that the child had suffered permanent inner ear damage and possibly more.


The Skyway Mont Blanc for the new Helbronner lifts quotes prices all the way from 0 to over 65 without any mention of babies not being allowed.
Whatever the provenance of the latter story, altitude would seem irrelevant.
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T Bar wrote:


The Skyway Mont Blanc for the new Helbronner lifts quotes prices all the way from 0 to over 65 without any mention of babies not being allowed.
Whatever the provenance of the latter story, altitude would seem irrelevant.


I think I'd rather take my advice from a man who spends rather a lot of time up there rather than a price list.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I am not saying the Chamonix lifts don't or didn't allow people up but the Helbronner lifts clearly do now.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It appears that cot death or SIDS is more common in babies who live at altitudes over 8000 ft which is just over 2400m. The OP should be aware of this before deciding whether any of the debate about lifts etc is relevant.
11 weeks is very young but in the short term this age group will tolerate a reduce FiO2 quite well, they have just emerged into this world from a very hypoxic enviroment after all. Some foetal haemoglobin will still be hanging around in their circulation which is of benefit. I am not aware that much is know about eustachian tube function in this age group, this may explain why these infants are often quite distressed on flights.
Never the less my first comment would carry the most prominence in making a decision like this for my family.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name, There was no confusion in my post. I said "The effect of altitude cannot be the same in a plane as up a mountain. Presumably due to the plane being pressurised. " You have said the same thing only given figures.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This is worse than helmets. Nobody has come up with any logical reason why the baby can't go up a medium altitude chairlift for an hour or so.
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Quote:

The effect of altitude cannot be the same in a plane as up a mountain. Presumably due to the plane being pressurised.

A friend who is asthmatic cannot ski at 3000 m but is fine in a plane.


Planes are not pressurised to sea level, as above the equivalent altitude is about 2,500m. I've even been sad enough to check this with an altimeter...
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@pam w, To be honest the only the OP can make a "logical" decision which depends on many factors personal to them and their baby. I agree, like the helmet debate and many things in life, there is rarely a "one size fits all answer" no matter how much we would like there to be.
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We live in the alps and the advice routinely given out here is that it is fine from newborn to go up/down the hill to around 2000m by car provided that you drive slowly or stop regularly to feed/allow baby to aclimatise and stop for a while if they start screaming. But that it isn't a good idea to do a lot of up/down/up especially in the first three months.

The advice is not to take a young baby onto anything you can't eassily stop if their ears start hurting (eg ski lift). And not to take them above around 2000m until they are quite a bit older (from memory I think it was 6mths but could have been 9)

This is for children born in local hospitals on the "valley floor" so around 600m.
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As an aside completely unrelated to the original post - skiing with a baby/todler in a backpack is a really really bad idea for a large number of reasons - and I don't know anyone local who would do this.
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jakemanc wrote:
Can I take my 11 week old baby on a ski lift? We are thinking of going skiing in a few weeks (French Alps) and have my mum coming with us to look after our little one whilst my wife and I ski. Would she be able to get on a ski lift with the little one (she'll be a pedestrian)?



Are you nutz? Seriously. Here's a better idea............. Put junior or juniorette in a full blown rally car and have the tyke experience that. Or why not introduce river rafting to the dust bin lid? The water's already flowing quite nicely in Colorado............
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