 Poster: A snowHead
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So...I like to think I'm a pretty defensive skier when around others, increasingly so as it gets busier. I can get my speed kicks elsewhere. And I'll generally ski off or side piste just to avoid the madding hordes.
I have been wearing a helmet in recent years and have large if not out-sized goggles. I don't feel that my peripheral vision is reduced, at least not by a great deal. The helmet is modern and lightweight and doesn't greatly affect my hearing/perception.
Anyhoo, I was skiing down the "pistone" (home run into Champoluc) on Sunday and overtaking a skier on my left who was following a predictable line and about 30% slower than me.
More or less just as he'd been discounted and disappeared from my peripheral vision when he suddenly reappear almost on top of my skis as he's realised he'd almost gone too far to traverse to the newish apres-ski bar on the RHS of the piste.
Had he been any closer I'd have been hit and certainly I had no chance to make any avoiding action.
Comments?
[Having found myself suitably aerated by this I make no apologies to shouting gross abuse at the family letting their little rat of a canine poo all over the side of the piste. If you're reading this I hope you all get faecally induced food poison).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A good basis for determining one's distance is to give the skier/boarder such a wide berth that they couldn't collide with you even if they suddenly became possessed by a demonic urge to deliberately do so.
In your case, this demonic urge manifested as a wicked attempt to lull you into assuming they'd continue their sedentary behaviour before suddenly getting into a speeding tuck based collision course with you.
There are demoniacal skiers out there!
Beware! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@under a new name, could not agree with you more about dogs and their poos. Our first season here with our new pup and we pick up everywhere but seem to be the only dog owners in France that do so.
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The gentle wee snowfall we had last night was optimal for covering the turds without in any way reducing their ski boot - and hence ski - smearing potential.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@crosbie, honest injun I pretty much was on the RHS of the poste, he on the left, and a significant acceleration on his part to get back below me.
I have been known to shout, in rude but correct French at people allowing their rats of dogs (and large ones of course) to poop in the middle of Chamonix's byways.
Oddly enough, none of them say yes when asked, "would you let your little poo-poo of an animal poo-poo in the middle of your salon?"
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Blighted a holiday for me, Dutch turds everywhere.
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Dog turds I mean. Mainly by the front door or by the ski locker. I hate it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Filthyphil30k, StAnton was it?
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In Avoriaz (last time I was there), what with snow being everywhere (and a few dogs), they do have free poo-bag dispensers. Perhaps they now have dedicated poo bins?
I deduce the French think Brits are mad for picking up their dogs' poo - considering it akin to picking up autumn leaves from the forest floor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Re dog turds yes the French are disgusting with their habits. There may be the odd French dog owner with a social conscience but in this case I think the the generalisation is merited.
Re the unexpected overtakee accelerating into your path. It happens occasionally. I think that's where you depend on skillz to save you because while you can adopt a wide berth policy there will always be cases where you can't give everyone as wide a berth as you would like due to the sheer Brownian motion going on on the slope.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ... there will always be cases where you can't give everyone as wide a berth as you would like due to the sheer Brownian motion going on on the slope. |
Although giving as wide a berth as possible does help diffuse the situation...... 
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@Dave of the Marmottes, not this time, I really didn't have time to react. Luckily he missed.
Not that I can cast aspersions, but I suspect it wasn't his first of the day...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@foxtrotzulu, i wasn't going so fast and he was going that much slower. Plenty of residual gravity to allow the movements involved.
Not excusing myself and I certainly hadn't considered the bar on the opposite side.
But I will say I have a more or less unobscured fov within my goggles.
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Poster: A snowHead
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When I lived in Paris the rule was always "shoes off indoors" for practical reasons. Maybe they've changed their culture since then, but I think it's unlikely. I like dogs, but their owners sometimes need training. And you don't want to hear how they take their pain killers.
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I think you're saying that his intent was initially clear (fall-line predictable etc), then he had some change of mind which caused his sudden direction change. So you maybe analyzed his path and decided he was competent and skiing fall-line, so looked for other threats. Meanwhile he made his unplanned direction change, and started blowing in your ear.
He made two errors: (1) rapid change of intent without any indication it was about to happen; (2) he failed to compute that you'd be in the space he was heading for.
So a near miss caused by him (irrespective of the boy scout rule book). I don't think you can do much to avoid that. Scan faster or pass them faster, but bad things happen and you can't avoid them all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think this is an interesting one. If I'm correct, you were on one side aware of the slower skier on the opposite side. IE you were doing it correctly.
Then over a brow and unsighted he had deviated sharply and you just missed him. In theory, you were uphill, however, if everyone would be cautious of this scenario, then the piste would be full of people scrubbing off speed at the bottom of a slope approaching a bump (IE the steep bit).
In this scenario, the downhill skier should have been aware of the bump because they just went over it. They should have taken a few turns to allow people uphill to adjust to his traverse. Some may strongly disagree and quote the rules, but I think this is like being on a country road and round a blind bend someone decides to do a 3 point turn. Yes it is theoretically legal (I know there is the due care and attention thing in the Highway Code) but common sense means you clear the corner then do it.
Likewise, I think the downhill skier should have assessed the situation before doing the gross manoeuvre.
They should not need to consider this doing normal manoeuvres but if I was doing a gross traverse to get to a cafe I would always cross while looking up the slope to not impede a skier skiing down the natural line down the piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@GlasgowCyclops, Where did you get the 'brow' /'bump' from. I don't think the OP mentioned one.
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@under a new name, Is that the ski bar with half a wild boar stuck on the outside wall? Pleasant place to down a beer or two before ending the day's skiing. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@philwig, yep, that's what I think happened. He wasn't the only numpty around on Saturday...
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@under a new name, Coincidentally I was thinking last week that my the downside of wearing helmet & goggles is a loss in peripheral vision. I'm an occasional helmet wearer and swapped through the week, so it was pretty obvious.
I wonder of the issue is that the newer goggles are much deeper, so restrict peripheral vision.
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@under a new name,
Rather shamefully I had a similar incident to this a few years ago that resulted in a collision.
Big broad and pretty empty blue run.
I saw a slow skier a way below me traversing from my side of the piste towards the opposite side. Otherwise clear white space.
So I let rip in pretty short carves on my side of the piste - so head facing pretty much towards the fall line.
No sign of any other skier in my vision.
After two or three turns I was turning away from my side of the piste towards the other. The slow skier appeared in my vision, traversing back towards me RIGHT NEXT TO ME. His ski tips hit my skis just in front of my bindings. Quite an impact - I picked myself up 20m down the hill with skis and poles widely distributed.
I think technically, given the point of impact, he hit me and it was his fault. But in the real world I'd clearly misjudged how much space I had and the possibility of coming into contact with another skier.
I can only think he turned towards me as I was turning away from him. But I don't really know how he didn't see me squarely in his eyeline and realise I would be coming back towards him when he was traversing towards me. But also I'm still not sure why I didn't pick him up in my peripheral vision a couple of turns earlier.
I think his line was pretty weird but I don't have the excuse of an abrupt change in behaviour like in your case.
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Another way of looking at it is to consider that, mathematically*, the skier travelling faster downhill at the point of collision must be at fault - on the principle of fault accruing to the uphill skier.
*If at t=0 both skiers are at collision P, then at zero minus delta t, the faster downhill skier is further uphill than the slower downhill skier.
It's a bit like the rear car in a shunt being at fault - on principle (unless they can prove it was a handbrake stop, or reversal, etc.).
Apparently slow skiers taking an unexpected horizontal excursion (fast or not) are a therefore a hazard in terms of an uphill skier's culpability risk, but them's the rules. One cannot rely upon a slow skier's wisdom in avoiding manoeuvres that may put them into the way of an uphill skier's insufficiently wide route (despite many skiers eventually developing such wisdom).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@crosbie, the more I think about it the more it seems obvious that I would have been obvious to him, I had or was passing and he accelerated giving it no thought.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @crosbie, the more I think about it the more it seems obvious that I would have been obvious to him, I had or was passing and he accelerated giving it no thought. |
My sympathies. We have to do the best we can - making better judgements to compensate for the poor ones of others. Just as kids can suddenly run out into the road, so the absent minded can suddenly realise they've almost missed their lunch stop (or motorway exit) and jeopardise their safety and others' in a 'surprise/unwise manoeuvre'.
:-/
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@crosbie, no big deal thankfully.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
*If at t=0 both skiers are at collision P, then at zero minus delta t, the faster downhill skier is further uphill than the slower downhill skier.
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yes I think that's fair
I think wrapped up in my case was an assumption that he would have no reason to come into my orbit and every reason and opportunity to avoid it. But in skiing (as in driving) you run into problems when you make assumptions about other people's behaviour.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| @GlasgowCyclops, Where did you get the 'brow' /'bump' from. I don't think the OP mentioned one. |
Jet lag and lack of sleep. Confusing two threads. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
@under a new name, Coincidentally I was thinking last week that my the downside of wearing helmet & goggles is a loss in peripheral vision. I'm an occasional helmet wearer and swapped through the week, so it was pretty obvious.
I wonder of the issue is that the newer goggles are much deeper, so restrict peripheral vision. |
As someone with only one eye, peripheral vision is important to me. I tested tons of wrap around goggles (or whatever they are called) and found that they do look like you may see more from the outside. But when wearing them, the foam in the inside restricts the vision more than one with a frame.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@GlasgowCyclops, indeed. But even if I wasn't helmet wearing some days goggles are essential.
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