 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never been particularly sold on the Snowboarders Blindspot as being much of an issue. It's no more of an issue to us than the Directly behind them blindspot skiers have. I reckon its an old feint from the skier community as to why we're 'dangerous'...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VT 2006 I had to bail out/turn sharply(binding released) to avoid a skier having a cigarette enjoying the view, he was stood mid piste below a drop (out of my sight), I avoided him but painfully dislocated my arm.
Lesson learnt - always ski within visual stopping distance, Although I also ensure wherever I stop I am visible to all downhill traffic and stand out of their way.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 16-03-16 13:21; edited 1 time in total
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I'm not big on the stand facing downhill so you're better off if someone hits you. I prefer the stand where you can scan uphill so you can see and take action* if someone is going to hit you. That action can vary from getting out if the way to deploying a pole to just dropping a shoulder into the solar plexus.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| @iskar, I regularly see skiers standing at a pinch point with skis perpendicular to the slope. Idiots are idiots, doesn't matter what they have strapped to their feet. |
Unless I'm missing the point here wouldn't it be rather hard to 'stand' unless your skis are perpendicular to the slope? They need to be across the slope to stop you sliding down it.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| I've never been particularly sold on the Snowboarders Blindspot as being much of an issue. It's no more of an issue to us than the Directly behind them blindspot skiers have. I reckon its an old feint from the skier community as to why we're 'dangerous'... |
I don't think the blindspot intrinsically makes boarders dangerous but it is a vulnerability. I suspect many incidents of " a boarder hit me" are due to skiers merrily trying to overtake in a boarders blindspot who fail due to a quite legitimate change in direction by the boarder. Any boarder with any skill is regularly checking the blindspot when they are themselves engaged in overtaking moves. *
* Caveat I did have to smackdown a boarder this year who came into a toeside traverse just above me across a piste - I was heading further over so couldn't turn out of his way. I thought I bet he hasn't seen me but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Sure enough he started a heelside turn directly into me so was rather surprised by me pushing him to the deck while giving him an Anglo Saxon lesson.
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..
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 16-03-16 13:31; edited 1 time in total
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| BigSouthernJesse wrote: |
It's done by people who can't be arsed to spare a thought for anyone else on the piste, irrespective of how many bits of slidey stuff they have strapped to their feet.  |
That's true. Noticed at Christmas that a lot of my fellow skiers (and probably me at times) have as much of a tendency to stand in stupid places. Smack bang off the lift (or in the queue to get on) is a favourite.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A good basis for determining one's distance is to give the skier/boarder such a wide berth that they couldn't collide with you even if they suddenly became possessed by a demonic urge to deliberately do so.
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@Dr John,
That's rather what I was saying. The code isn't really enforceable as a set of rules, but if you were to breach the code while causing an accident then someone might refer to the code to support the argument that you were negligent. i.e. the code/FIS rules has no legal status.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| @iskar, I regularly see skiers standing at a pinch point with skis perpendicular to the slope. Idiots are idiots, doesn't matter what they have strapped to their feet. |
+1
I see skiers do this all the time. As well as pinch points, it seems that a particularly favourite place for a group of skiers to line up neatly across the slope is at the top of a roller. They could instead slow down when they reach the top and proceed with caution rather than stop mid piste. Having said that I've seen groups of snowboarders do the same thing 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| crosbie wrote: |
| A good basis for determining one's distance is to give the skier/boarder such a wide berth that they couldn't collide with you even if they suddenly became possessed by a demonic urge to deliberately do so. |
That's exactly what I do anytime I ski somewhat faster.
If I can't, I ski somewhat slower. And then I can just stop if needed.
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@foxtrotzulu, What is your point, apart from pedantry? If you're witnessed to have have breached the code and in doing so caused an accident it will be held against you in a court of law. Not sure what part of that is confusing for you.
5 seconds of googling - www.skiencore.com/content/fis-code-of-conduct.aspx
"All the above rules are binding in law and apply to both skiers and snowboarders."
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You know it makes sense.
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The FIS Code of Conduct Rules say nothing about stopping at the side of the piste. Rule 6, 'Stopping' states; 'Unless absolutely necessary, skiers or snowboarders must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. If a fall should occur here, it is essential to move clear of the piste as soon as possible.'
The commentary to the FIS Rule 6 states; 'Except on wide pistes stops must be made at the side of the piste ...' - so on wide pistes, it is presumably acceptable to stop somewhere other than at the side as long as you are visible to oncoming skiers and boarders. In my experience this is a sensible thing to do as it allows plenty of room for others to pass either side of you if the piste is more than, say, 15m wide.
There seems to be an increasing number of skiers and boarders who treat the outside 3m of the piste as a race-training track, in contravention of Rules 1, 2, 3 and 4. Earlier in the season I was hit by one of these guys, having stopped at the edge of a very wide piste. I had been stood, clearly visible, for about a minute when he hit me. Fortunately I was bending down to adjust my boots so was able to effect a sort of rugby tackle as he crashed into me, so was not too badly injured.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 16-03-16 16:27; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dr John, I think FZ's point was that ski patrol don't really exist in Europe (not that I've seen) so people don't get a telling off when they're acting like a dick, instead it's used retrospectively following an accident.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Now that's interesting, the link above states at rule 6 "Only stop at the edge of the piste or where you can easily be seen."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| @Dr John,
That's rather what I was saying. The code isn't really enforceable as a set of rules, but if you were to breach the code while causing an accident then someone might refer to the code to support the argument that you were negligent. i.e. the code/FIS rules has no legal status. |
This all depends on where you are.
The code does have legal status in some jurisdictions (Mainly in the US I think, though also in Italy).
https://www.iskiny.com/explore-new-york/nys-ski-code
http://www.skilex.at/kaprun_vortrag_zotto.pdf (I can't find a direct translation of the Italian law)
These laws are not stating that the skiers code has legal effect, but they are incorporating most or all of the clauses from it into local laws.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How quickly threads become skiers vs snowboarders debates. As someone said above it doesn't matter what you've got strapped to your feet you get inconsiderate skiers and snowboarders and unfortunately there's only one cure for stupid. As others have also said stopping at the side of the piste is obviously the best place preferably not on the inside of a tight bend like esf instructors like to. As for snowboarders blocking lift exits I know very few that do usually we're the first to scoot out of the way to strap in on a down hill section, skiers however do love to congregate on lift exits giving said snowboarders nowhere to go so they end up on their bum having to strap in. As for riding down the edge of the piste why wouldn't you it's usually the best snow, less chopped up, least icy and it's away from the punters who are scared incase they fall of the edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
As for riding down the edge of the piste why wouldn't you it's usually the best snow, less chopped up, least icy and it's away from the punters who are scared incase they fall of the edge.
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As long as you keep to Rules 1, 2, 3 and 4 regarding respect for others, control of speed, choice of route and overtaking, there is no problem with anyone riding down the edge of the piste - but be aware that many skiers and boarders are of the opinion that the edge of the piste is the safest place or even the obligatory place to stop.
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As others have also said stopping at the side of the piste is obviously the best place preferably
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In my experience, it is not always the best or preferable place to stop if the piste is wide enough to offer alternatives.
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odd to make a comment about it deteriorating into snowboarders vs skiers debate, then go one to continue the snowboarders vs skiers debate
my experience at the weekend was that skiers congregate near the edge after coming off a lift, but those boarders that do stop, stop in the middle. and about 50% (both skiers and boarders) don't even look when they do decide to go.
as a skier, i ski right thru the stopped skiers and boarders when coming off the lift, and often don't even sort out pole straps until 100m down the piste. at the edge of course.
snowboarder tw@t got punched in the kidneys in self defence. could have just as easily been a skier in a reverse plough, but I probably wouldn't have been able to reach. but then if you look up hill to see if it's safe to move off and a snow user is heading towards you with no clue that you're even there, and is within arm's reach, then it's going to be a reflex action, not "oh shoot, I better move out of the way quickly".
the edge isn't nicer snow. it's all the fluff that's been thrown out to the edges. but there's lots of scope for going fast, straight down the hill, with lots of scope for scrubbing speed. and yes I have had to take evasive action as a stopped skier several times. sometimes a boarder that's fubared a jump, other times it's a beginner using all that fluff and found that it's difficult to do tight snow ploughs in, and other times had my tails skied right over by someone who has no concept that my skis stick out in front and behind me. that's why I leave either 3m for people to play in, or no space, and they'll just have to go totally off the edge or back on to the piste proper for 2 turns. depends on how much space there is, how wide the piste is, etc..
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| Quote: |
| ... that's why I leave either 3m for people to play in, or no space, and they'll just have to go totally off the edge or back on to the piste proper for 2 turns. depends on how much space there is, how wide the piste is, etc.. |
That's my usual thinking. Either leave plenty of space to pass either side, or leave none at all between you and the edge of the piste. People often seen tempted by small gaps...
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Where do old ski instructors stop to collect their class.
2-3 m in from the edge in a spot where they can be seen ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Easy, don't stop. Top to bottom in one hit 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Isnt it just common sense ?
Its the same as asking where you should best stand in a road .. err, not in the middle of where everyone goes, somewhere that you can be seen and just keep an eye out for those coming down hill as they might be out of control. Dont give someone the option of skiing the 1 metre between you and the edge. Stand at the edge. If they can ski then they will go in front of you, if not, they are skiing to close to you and are dicks ... if they cant ski in front they can stop and wait ..
Bar is the best place to stop.
Its not just boarders who sit in, or stop in stupid places ... its donuts and there are plenty of skiers who fit that category too.
Same applies when you are skiing though, approach,lips, bends drops etc where you cant see ...with control, which means in a manner that you can stop if needed, otherwise you fall into the idiot category yourself.. ............................ and there are plenty of idiots out there !
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 18-03-16 8:46; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Andy4467, I can't quite work out how he fell, but it looks brutal! The speed he passes the camera at is quite scary really...but I guess that's what happens if you try to straightline a steep red.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
@Andy4467, I can't quite work out how he fell, but it looks brutal! The speed he passes the camera at is quite scary really...but I guess that's what happens if you try to straightline a steep red
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I couldn't believe the speed. That was mental! I kept thinking that the nice chap with the skis was waiting for him to say he was OK so he could really start giving him a piece of his mind!. He could have killed someone.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Andy4467, W.T.F. ???????
That's attempted suicide. Possibly attempted murder at the same time.
Jeepers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
That's attempted suicide. Possibly attempted murder at the same time.
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And if I was going to pick one area of piste in the whole of Courchevel not to straight line it would be that steep section on Combe de Saulire. It is by far the crux of one of the most popular (justifiably) runs in the whole 3V. It is accessed by three big capacity lifts. It is always full of nervous intermediates just getting through the difficult and narrower section before enjoying the friendly wide-open spaces beyond. It is entirely predictable that you will find people turning erratically, catching edges and sprawling in the snow surrounded by gear.
What an idiot!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@jedster, it's a regular sight though, someone on big twintips going straight down a piste looking for big soft lumps..I'm still in awe of how fast he flew through the air though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sorry for my ignorance @sj1608, but I could not translate the article, what had happened in that accident?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@terrygasson, my understanding is that an off-piste skier rejoined the (blue) piste at speed and collided with a snowboarder, pushing the skier's thorax into the shoulder of the snowboarder, causing the skier to have a cardiac arrest. It appears that there were doctors nearby, but that despite their and the pisteurs' efforts to save him, he died at the scene.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Andy4467, the sheer insanity/stupidity/selfishness of youth. Would have been terrible if he hit anyone when bowling down that slope out of control. Assume a few choice words were used after the camera sequence ended.
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thanks @sj1608, we often forget that the sport we (snowheads) all love and enjoy is fraught with danger and we can become blasé about our and others around us ability and judgement.
I am skiing at the moment but thankfully the slopes are really quiet, when I was back here in half term they were a lot busier, and I was with my family, including my two young daughters (their first ski holiday), after seeing the video from courcheval and the skier out of control just missing those kids, it has made me question myself about possibly putting them in that position, even more so after my youngest fractured her knee after the 3rd day!!!
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Saw marked rest stops in Utah last week, with 6 feet or so of netting projecting into the trail from the side. Every 250 yds or so. Think it was at Deer Valley.
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laundryman, that's an interesting concept, never saw them over there when we were there couple of weeks before you - but we didn't get to Deer Valley. Possibly a new thing, seemed to be more netting at Solitude though to block routes that might be dangerous. So they may try it there too.
But we never see much in the way of dangerous skiing either, the usual stuff but nothing really serious.
That video is just nuts, and they instructor collecting his skis was remarkably restrained, I thought he was going to ski off with his skis.
Looked like he came over the lip jumping, landed on his tails and lost it big time. Really amazed no one was injured there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Bones, I think he hit a bump rather than was jumping, part of me thinks he was already just out of control.
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