 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from a week in the French Alps, and the outward overnight London - Bourg St Maurice direct Eurostar on 4 March was a disaster. At 6pm (prior to ski-train check-in opening) there was a large number of people (say 1000+) overcrowding the Eurostar check-in area at St Pancras, and multiple queues around the station. Staff were advising ski-train (and late-departure Paris) passengers to keep to one side until passengers for earlier departures had been cleared. They made announcements stating that trains would be delayed and everyone would get on. The BSM check-in opened late, and at around the scheduled closure time there was an announcement that "check-in is temporarily suspended due to overcrowding in the departure lounge" (subsequent discussion with people who were in the lounge suggest this was untrue). Around 10 minutes later it became clear that check-in wasn't reopening and the train was leaving! Cue angry outbursts from passengers left behind. Some groups had even been split up. Eurostar appeared to have anticipated problems, as there were a larger-than-usual number of police and PCSOs present to keep the peace.
Perhaps around 100-200 ski-train passengers (and a similar number of Paris passengers) failed to get on. They were offered of a refund or a rebooked ticket at a later date - neither of which were much help as the Saturday day direct service was already full, and Eurostar could not offer any alternative until at least Monday. Managed to get transferred to a Paris service on Saturday and then booked a late TGV/TER service via Lyon from the SNCF website, which Eurostar should pay for, but not sure that everyone achieved this as most TGV services from Paris seemed to be full. Others were booking (expensive) flights for early Saturday and trying to get Eurostar to arrange taxis, hotels etc.
Seems a silly economic decision by Eurostar not to prioritise ski-train passengers, as compensation for delay and alternative travel / accommodation will be much larger than for those bumped off Paris/Brussels services. Everyone will have lost at least a day's skiing. Still trying to find out the legal position on compensation.
No idea of the cause, but some people indicated that it wasn't the first time it had happened on a Friday night this year. Possible causes might be: extra capacity on the new Paris trains means that the security scanning system can't cope; earlier train delay resulting in a backlog; security alert etc. Someone said that security was taking longer because of ski-train passengers trying to smuggle alcohol through, and staff being diverted to deal with them when caught - but not convinced this was true as the backlog appeared to exist before most ski-train passengers arrived.
If you are booked on the overnight service for the remainder of the season, suggest you arrive early and insist on getting in a queue for the BSM service ASAP.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow, thanks for the heads up ecureil - it's always been a bit busy but I would never expect to be left behind if actually there and following instructions 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the alert. It is the first I have heard of the Friday evening ski train being affected. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened - just that it has not been reported.
I take the Eurostar (Paris or Lyon) almost every month and I, personally, have no problems in the past year. There were delays in April & May 2015 when they first introduced the extra passport checks - but things have been working smoothly since.
Just one word of warning about arriving very early. Eurostar have a policy of not opening any ticket check gate until an hour before departure (they never used to bother about this before 2015).
If you arrive very early you will be put in a queue and may end up standing for quite some time.
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| Quote: |
I would never expect to be left behind if actually there and following instructions
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Agreed. Sounds like a massive cock up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shabby shabby shabby and a strike against those who claim that travelling by train is so much easier than air travel. St Pancreatitis is a massive PITA that rather undermines that theory.
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I can imagine how angry the passengers left behind must have been. What a shambles. If it's true that some delays were caused by people smuggling alcohol then anyone caught doing should me marched off and not allowed to board at all. Or maybe they already are?
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Hmm, we'll be joining the daytime ski train to Moutiers at Ashford in a couple of weeks. May have to annoy the wife by suggesting an even earlier kickoff.
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| pam w wrote: |
| If it's true that some delays were caused by people smuggling alcohol then anyone caught doing should me marched off and not allowed to board at all. |
Or maybe Eurostar could mind their own business and not try to impose some petty nanny state rules such as banning alcohol, while giving their staff greater sanctions to impose on troublemakers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, im with you on this one. What an epic waste of time and resource. I suppose there is no onboard limit to how much you can purchase and knock back.
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maybe something to do with the French rail strikes last week?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I suppose it's quite tricky to impose significant 'sanctions' on a pack of slavering Gila monsters turning carriage 7 into a 150mph vomitorium while whacked out of their minds on black sambuka and bad cheese pizza. Hence the move to prevention rather than cure.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Nadenoodlee, I am sure someone said you can't by it if you are travelling economy overnight at all, and that in premium they were limiting the amount you were given with dinner.
@eddiethebus, rail strikes were midweek, after this happened.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| I suppose it's quite tricky to impose significant 'sanctions' on a pack of slavering Gila monsters turning carriage 7 into a 150mph vomitorium while whacked out of their minds on black sambuka and bad cheese pizza. Hence the move to prevention rather than cure. |
Speaking from experience? I dunno - I suspect it's not beyond the wit of Eurostar to have provision for a stop at an inconvenient station for ejection of troublesome passengers. I don't particularly care - I've no desire to get bombed on an overnight train but if it's true that enforcing their alcohol ban is meaning they are unable to provide their contracted passengers with the service something is wrong.
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't think people were trying to smuggle booze, they just hadn't read the small print. Eurostar had staff walking along the queue telling passengers that they couldn't take alcohol aboard so most of the queue were slugging all the booze they'd bought from M&S. There was also about an hour delay. The result was a lot of tanked up people boarding the train. It was a complete shambles but I hadn't realised that Eurostar had left people behind - not acceptable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Hells Bells, yes, that's what I recall as well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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They don't even tell off sober people being rowdy all night long (bitter experience) so I imagine that's why they prefer to prevent to minimise problems.
Absolutely disgusting at all those passengers being left behind, there's no excuse for it whatsoever. Yet I'm not that surprised - the customer service we had when we tried to upgrade to avoid the Jeremy Kyle family from hell even though I was in tears and we had four young children including one with special needs says it all. Hearing about this is the final nail in the coffin for us potentially going by train for a third time.
Those who really want to get drunk seem to down what they can in the bar before they get on *sigh*
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As I said in the original post I don't believe the alcohol position contributed to the problem - or not significantly.
If an airport had a massive check-in / security backlog problem like this, then departures would probably simply be delayed. But with Eurostar potentially having to fit in with scheduled maintenance on both UK and French lines, and with Eurotunnel scheduling, it may have much less scope for delay - it isn't quite so easy to insert a "rail replacement bus service" at short notice for a full train half way across France. It may have been faced with the choice between leaving slightly late without some passengers, or waiting until all passengers were aboard but then being unable to leave at all.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does anyone know how the check-in system at St Pancras actually works? Although they nominally designate certain "gates" for specific services, once through those gates you appear to be in a common security system, and a common departure lounge.
Since access through the gates is simply by scanning a ticket, is there anything to stop you joining an earlier "Paris" queue even if booked on the BSM train? Or do they program the gates so that they only work for a specific train, and only if within x minutes of your departure time?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you are "denied boarding" on a plane you usually get compensation, don't you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
| If an airport had a massive check-in / security backlog problem like this, then departures would probably simply be delayed. |
Umm, no chance!
If the airline delay the flight there are massive costs for the airline. Not just delay compensation claims for the delayed flight but also the next flight(s) that aircraft's due to make but you can start missing air traffic control slots, destination airport operating times, aircrew operating hours, etc. None of this can be claimed back from the airport.
If you're not at the gate before it closes for any reason you don't get on the plane.
| pam w wrote: |
| If you are "denied boarding" on a plane you usually get compensation, don't you? |
Depends, the term "denied boarding" usually means it's your 'fault' (you're too drunk/on a no-fly list/abusive to staff/too late to the gate/etc).
Compensation kicks in for delays that are the airlines fault and within the airlines control, so no compensation for things like weather delays and diversions as they can't control that but if there's a fault on the aircraft or missing/over hours aircrew, yes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| ecureuil wrote: |
| If an airport had a massive check-in / security backlog problem like this, then departures would probably simply be delayed. |
Umm, no chance!
If the airline delay the flight there are massive costs for the airline. Not just delay compensation claims for the delayed flight but also the next flight(s) that aircraft's due to make but you can start missing air traffic control slots, destination airport operating times, aircrew operating hours, etc. None of this can be claimed back from the airport.
If you're not at the gate before it closes for any reason you don't get on the plane.
| pam w wrote: |
| If you are "denied boarding" on a plane you usually get compensation, don't you? |
Depends, the term "denied boarding" usually means it's your 'fault' (you're too drunk/on a no-fly list/abusive to staff/too late to the gate/etc).
Compensation kicks in for delays that are the airlines fault and within the airlines control, so no compensation for things like weather delays and diversions as they can't control that but if there's a fault on the aircraft or missing/over hours aircrew, yes. |
However if the company fails to advise or ensure that people can make the train/flight then...
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=fe3df2a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
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I was under the impression that Scotish law was different to English.
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My daughter and BF on an overbooked flight to Nairobi were happy to accept a couple of hundred quid and a night in an airport hotel to fly the next day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh we are due to board at Ashford to BSM on 1/4/16, i am now dreading turning up at the station. we was already warned someone might be in our seats and would politely have to ask them to move......
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Why are you dreading it? You are boarding at Ashford, not London St Pancras! I have heard no reports of boarding problems at Ashford. Turn up in good time and everything will be fine. If somebody is in your seat, tell them to move. If they refuse, talk to the train staff. It's no big deal.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| chrisdjsax wrote: |
| Oh we are due to board at Ashford to BSM on 1/4/16, i am now dreading turning up at the station. we was already warned someone might be in our seats and would politely have to ask them to move...... |
You could always buy these tickets for the following day as an emergency stand-by option: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=124877
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Why are you dreading it? You are boarding at Ashford, not London St Pancras! I have heard no reports of boarding problems at Ashford. Turn up in good time and everything will be fine. If somebody is in your seat, tell them to move. If they refuse, talk to the train staff. It's no big deal.
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Oh i had visions of it being worse from Ashford, i hope all is ok dont want to be put of from using again after our 1st time.
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Fewer people get on at Ashford so there is unlikely to be a queue to check in. However you do need to be ready at the right place on the platform as the train doesn't stop for long. On the way back you will need to ensure your luggage is not boxed in and you can get it out quickly. The train is a relaxing way to travel. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ashford is a lot less hassle from experience of having boarded at both. Far less crowded.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mjit wrote: |
| ecureuil wrote: |
| If an airport had a massive check-in / security backlog problem like this, then departures would probably simply be delayed. |
Umm, no chance!
If the airline delay the flight there are massive costs for the airline. Not just delay compensation claims for the delayed flight but also the next flight(s) that aircraft's due to make but you can start missing air traffic control slots, destination airport operating times, aircrew operating hours, etc. None of this can be claimed back from the airport.
If you're not at the gate before it closes for any reason you don't get on the plane.
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Agree. One of the rare times we got Ryanair there was some issue with the computers at check-in. It was obvious there was a problem as soon as you got near the Ryanair check in area as masses of people. Time was ticking away but eventually they fixed it. Fortunately we got checked in and literally ran to the departure gate and were the last ones on the flight, which was half empty, but it seems that punctuality is more important than the customer (at least to Ryanair). There were a ton of people in the queue behind us who must have missed this and other flights.
I'm not sure what other (proper) airlines would do regarding delaying the flight, probably not because others may miss connections etc, but they would at least try and get you on the next flight or as soon as possible.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You snooze, you lose.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This is a disaster for the whole Eurostar ski train concept. The great advantages - less hassle than airports, an extra day skiing. The downside - lack of flexibility with the timetable. If there is a risk of this happening the advantages evaporate and the downside is magnified. Now that it has happened I am very unlikely to use the service again - better take Eurostar to Paris and get a sleeper from there. The absolute idiots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| snowymum wrote: |
| Fewer people get on at Ashford so there is unlikely to be a queue to check in. However you do need to be ready at the right place on the platform as the train doesn't stop for long. On the way back you will need to ensure your luggage is not boxed in and you can get it out quickly. The train is a relaxing way to travel. I'm sure you will enjoy it. |
Thankyou for this, i feel reassured now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
This is a disaster for the whole Eurostar ski train concept. The great advantages - less hassle than airports, an extra day skiing. The downside - lack of flexibility with the timetable. If there is a risk of this happening the advantages evaporate and the downside is magnified. Now that it has happened I am very unlikely to use the service again - better take Eurostar to Paris and get a sleeper from there. The absolute idiots.
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The unmentioned other downside is that they go from London or Kent, not easy for the majority of the UK. But as you almost said "fly to Paris and get the sleeper from there".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chrisdjsax wrote: |
| Oh we are due to board at Ashford to BSM on 1/4/16, i am now dreading turning up at the station. we was already warned someone might be in our seats and would politely have to ask them to move...... |
we're off next Saturday via Ashford - I am sure we'll comment on it at some point that week. In fact I wonder if my other half will do Alice part 2?! http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118390
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@always29, have a great time!
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More information on what happened on Friday, 4 March 2016 at Eurostar St Pancras.
The problem was caused by French passport controls. Probably a random check on the day.
There were slight problems through the day, which got worse through the evening busy period.
Eurostar handled the delay until the last two trains due to leave St Pancras - one to Paris and the Snow train. The problem with these two trains was that there were overnight engineering works in the channel tunnel and if they missed their slot they would not be able to cross to France that night.
Eurostar would have held the Snowtrain until all passengers were aboard if it were possible to get the train through the tunnel that night.
The person I spoke to in St Pancras has worked there for twenty years and said it was the first time it has happened on this scale. However, the additional French passport checks were only implemented in April/May 2015 so does not mean it might not happen again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@always29, I'm hoping he does - enjoyed it last year 
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Less of a problem for me - Arve valley line. Train enthusiasts will just have to aim for PDS, GM, Chamonix, EMB instead - it's still quite a choice
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FAQ
