 Poster: A snowHead
|
@ed123, I'll post a picture from the restaurant with a glass (or bottle!) in SH's honour. Alternatively, I'll take one with my flask on the chairlift of shame on the way down, also in you guy's honour 
I keep hearing just how special GM is, and chairlift of shame or not, I need to see it for myself.
Also- Blizzard of Aaaaahs is epic. But it brings me to a second, equally important question as that of my death. Lately I've been obessing watching 80s ski films, both fictional and not. Why, in all the fictional ones, does the epitome of skiing consist of two people, one behind the other, doing really awkward bobbing motions left and right in perfect sync? It's hilarious to watch! I know, straight skis and all, but why the super awkward short turns and the whole bobbing thing? Also, when did girls stop being general bunnies/strippers and actually start skiing? Guessing sometime in the late 90s?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Still confusion about the geography here..... Maybe sort it out before you embark on any death defying exploits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@pam w, Swiss Wall= PdS- never meant to generate this confusion! Not going anywhere near it, was only setting it as a standard of something that is very difficult but looks super easy on film, hence my not trusting youtube to accurately portray GM, and asking here for help.
GM= Chamonix, above Argentiere, where I'm going next weekend. With a monitor, in a group, in a coach
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
"I really do appreciate all your advice- seems it's a question of heading left, sideslipping down the first part and then hopefully plainer sailing."
Errr I would be REALLY impressed with anyone who could sideslip down the first section of the wall when the moguls have built up at he top.
Be very aware that, in icy conditions, if you fall at the top you will go a long way before you can stop, we are talking maybe 300 meters with the near certainty of 'rag dolling' all the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Evissimus, the reference to taking a photo on the (stupidly nicknamed) chairlift of shame suggested there was some remaining geographical confusion, given you don't intend going anywhere near there.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Evissimus wrote: |
| @pam w, Swiss Wall= PdS- never meant to generate this confusion! Not going anywhere near it, was only setting it as a standard of something that is very difficult but looks super easy on film, hence my not trusting youtube to accurately portray GM, and asking here for help. |
Evissimus, I think it would be simpler for everyone, including you, if you abandoned the idea of going up the Grands Montets and did the Swiss Wall instead.
That way we can all talk you down it - assuming wifi is now available all the way down...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@crosbie, I think the wall very, very many years ago was indeed an itineraire. But ever since I skied it (1988) it's been a marked, patrolled and secured run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @crosbie, I think the wall very, very many years ago was indeed an itineraire. But ever since I skied it (1988) it's been a marked, patrolled and secured run. |
Yes, I'm not disputing it's always been a marked, patrolled and secured run (since '88 ), BUT I think it remains ungraded (outside green-black), and has often appeared on piste maps as a dotted line/itinerary. However, piste maps can be mistaken as definitive and may therefore give rise to confusion and claims that it is unmarked/unpatrolled like many itineraries, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| crosbie wrote: |
| Evissimus wrote: |
| @pam w, Swiss Wall= PdS- never meant to generate this confusion! Not going anywhere near it, was only setting it as a standard of something that is very difficult but looks super easy on film, hence my not trusting youtube to accurately portray GM, and asking here for help. |
Evissimus, I think it would be simpler for everyone, including you, if you abandoned the idea of going up the Grands Montets and did the Swiss Wall instead.
That way we can all talk you down it - assuming wifi is now available all the way down... |
 I can just see it - "left a bit left a bit, Jesus Christ THE OTHER LEFT"
Anyway, if the monitor is happy to take you, then the biggest risk is probably just making enemies in the group if you turn out to be intolerably slow. I've still not forgotten a guide judging us (actually mainly me) with great disdain too slow for the chosen route and making us take a much easier escape route and a bus of shame....no harm other than to my pride despite going back bottom over tit several times before that point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| TQA wrote: |
"
Errr I would be REALLY impressed with anyone who could sideslip down the first section of the wall when the moguls have built up at he top.
Be very aware that, in icy conditions, if you fall at the top you will go a long way before you can stop, we are talking maybe 300 meters with the near certainty of 'rag dolling' all the way. |
Lots of folk side slipping the top section makes it even more icy/difficult/dangerous for the next skiers. Far better to head for the (hopefully) soft snow on the skiers right of the piste markers and make turn(s) there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@a.j., that sounds epic- maybe a live webcast? That way you can all get a good laugh in!
There's going to be a 'loser group' including me and three other not-quite-so-noobs at similarish levels, so we'll let the others go first and then take our sweet sweet time trying to give our monitor a heart attack
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@Evissimus, Well, after all this, whatever you do and wherever you do it, you HAVE to post a vid of it now
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dammit, and I swore I'd never buy a go-pro....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| crosbie wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @crosbie, I think the wall very, very many years ago was indeed an itineraire. But ever since I skied it (1988) it's been a marked, patrolled and secured run. |
Yes, I'm not disputing it's always been a marked, patrolled and secured run (since '88 ), BUT I think it remains ungraded (outside green-black), and has often appeared on piste maps as a dotted line/itinerary. However, piste maps can be mistaken as definitive and may therefore give rise to confusion and claims that it is unmarked/unpatrolled like many itineraries, etc. |
I'm pretty sure that on my piste map of last year it is shown much as any other black run. Of course, it's not called "The Swiss Wall", but "Les Chavanettes" or similar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@crosbie, it is definitely currently graded black and has been as far as I've ever seen. My memory is not 100% reliable so it may have been a dotted line at some point since 1988 to reflect that it (almost?) never gets groomed but I don't firmly recall so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@under a new name, it's black on the piste map on the Avoriaz website but I do recall having seen in the last 10 years it having been marked an a dotted black line which I've always interpreted as an itinerary. I will find some old copies tonight to confirm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@crosbie, I'm not convinced that the commentary on a ski lift site is definitive  as the word "itineraire" is not reserved for "itineraires" as lift maps would have it.
It now occurs to me that it may appear in my Anselme Baud book of "100 best descents in the Northern Alps" which may pre-date the first chairlift but would anyway mean it wasn't even an itineraire at that point. The book's in Chamonix so I can't check.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
"Booked a 2 hour private today at Avoriaz and asked the instructor literally to scare me."
If you asked for that in Keystone, Colorado, where we were last week, the price would do the trick! Only $750 for a day's private lesson  (& $132 for a 1 day lift pass).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Those instructors must be raking it in!! £500+ a day
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Well I hate it when I prove myself wrong ....
2006
https://skimap.org/data/988/871/1340456608.jpg
But I'm sticking to my guns that it has always, as far as I can remember been roped off skiers' right until the cliff line and had obvious hazards indicated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wow! I paid 85 EUR for the 2 hours. And the ski club I'm in have volunteer monitors, so I only pay for the lift pass. Go Europe!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Filthyphil30k wrote: |
| Those instructors must be raking it in!! £500+ a day |
Well only the extra £200 they expect you to tip them. The US ski school model is apparently the $750 is basically the reservation fee paid to the resort and a small hourly retainer to the instructor but you are expected by Rob Katz, CEO Vail Resorts to make up the rest of the instructor's living wage through your tips = Only suckers take lessons in the US.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Filthyphil30k, apparently the instructors see very little of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
Well I hate it when I prove myself wrong ....
2006
https://skimap.org/data/988/871/1340456608.jpg
But I'm sticking to my guns that it has always, as far as I can remember been roped off skiers' right until the cliff line and had obvious hazards indicated. |
That's mighty big of you! 
Yup, dotted and/or orange line on the piste map, which could simply mean whoever did the piste map figured the orange, itinerary line best matched 'ungroomed & ungraded', without necessarily meaning unpatrolled/unsecured/unmarked.
And yes, I think we share the same memory of what was actually on the ground regarding boundary/hazard poles/ropes, etc.
Incidentally, those two restaurants (sometimes one or both are closed) down the red/itinerary from Pointe de Ripaille (to left of Swiss Wall) are a nice discovery - as is the actual run itself (a tricky footpath in some places, a flat road in others).
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@crosbie, what I'd like to find is a map from '88 or so to see if it was even considered a "piste" when I was blithely, if they didn't heed my discouragement, leading parties of unfortunate guests down it.
Mind you, there was the odd off piste moment elsewhere too
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
It also occurs to me that while Dominique Perret might hold the official record for fastest descent, the two pisteurs whose avalanche control blast took out the original chair might well have bested him outrunning the avalanche...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| what I'd like to find is a map from '88 or so to see if it was even considered a "piste" |
I'd wager it was a permitted descent since at least the date the Chavanette chair was brought into service. So, a question for the lift operators.
What I found most frustrating about The Swiss Wall is that the Chavanette chair can be closed, but there can still be an absence of any 'Piste Ferme' ribbon across the top, leaving one in a quandary as to whether one can still go down it and make one's way back to Avoriaz via Les Crosets. The thing is you can't see if any of the lifts going over to Les Crosets are operating (without binoculars).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Evissimus, a tip. The top section of the GM cable car gets very busy especially at weekends. It's possible to book a slot on the lift in advance on the Internet if you already have a pass. If you don't have a pass you can book a time when you buy your pass on the day, but they fill up quickly so being early will help. You can just queue but it's often well over an hour.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@crosbie, oh, definitely a permitted descent.
I don't understand how the Chavanette chair can be closed and the run open, barring crap snow Crosets side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi Evissimus
I wouldn't recommend it, but on a good day, you'd probably be OK if you stay on piste.
I've taken a fit, athletic young lady down the Point-de-vue black piste. She was a keen intermediate, and managed well enough. It's a lot longer than it looks, and it's likely to be mogully everywhere. A lot of moguls that go on and on. Go with someone else who knows what they are doing, and has the patience to stay with you. Someone who can teach you as you go. Only if it's windless, blue-sky and perfect visibility, and likely to stay that way all day. Take your time.
You must be very sure of yourself and your equipment. No skis falling off. Take it in 100m stages. You must be able to ski (O.K. survive on) big steep bumps. There could be sheet boiler plate in some bits - so make sure your edges are like razors.
If it's deep snow, you must be competent enough not to keep falling and losing skis.
It's a long walk if you end up not being able to ski it!
Also, it's extremely cold at the top. From the top station there's a lot of steps at first. From the plateau then there's a steep wall you have to sideslip over the ice in turn. Then it opens out into lovely wide terrain that steepens. After a while it becomes narrower, but by then it's lower and easier going.
Do a warm-up run first down the Home run (Lognan). If you can do that non-stop, you will probably have the endurance for the Gd Montets PDV Black all right if you break it up in sections.
Don't go offpiste unless you take a guide.
I echo "ed123" above. Give it a go. on a good day. Take a rucsac with water and food. And a bivvy bag. You may be quite a while up there!
Good Luck
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| pam w wrote: |
| @Filthyphil30k, apparently the instructors see very little of it. |
Well that's not on, I am surprised the unions don't sort it out. Who gets it then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| I don't understand how the Chavanette chair can be closed and the run open, barring crap snow Crosets side. |
It was end of season & a bit overcast, and not many folk on piste, but I was keen to check out the Wall so headed over to it. It seemed plausible that there was near zero demand to ascend Chavanette hence its non-operation. However, there was ample snow, but no black dots I could see down Crosets side. I couldn't rule out there were lifts running to Crosets, but then I couldn't tell if anything was moving or not. A tiny amount of skiers could have simply been staying in the centre of Crosets and not venturing further. I could have gone over even if no lifts were running, descended to the valley bottom and then crossed my fingers there was a skibus, but that's a long way to walk back...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@crosbie, a long way indeed! My thought would be that Crosets was more or less closed. The swiss side suffers much more from a southerly aspect and a degree of snowfall shielding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
It's America. They don't do unions much, hence the working conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| stevew wrote: |
| @under a new name, it's black on the piste map on the Avoriaz website but I do recall having seen in the last 10 years it having been marked an a dotted black line which I've always interpreted as an itinerary. I will find some old copies tonight to confirm. |
2006 & 2008 piste maps show as an orange itinerary, 2014 as a black. I think we're all right!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Black run on these 2007 and 2015 maps here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Picked up a Les Crosets piste map as skied through and Swiss Wall is marked as an itinerary this year. Didn't ski it though to see how it was marked up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi everyone! Back and alive- but only just. I was in the top of the second steep at point de vue when I got completely wiped out by an out of control skier. Still don't know how it happened- we'd let everyone else down first, and I was taking it nice and slowly, one turn at a time, just enjoying the views and not pushing it. I didn't even hear him- only felt it when I went flying. It was terrifying- I immediately lost my skis and started rag dolling off the moguls. I was desperately trying to get feet downhill and face first and saw myself sliding off the piste. I ended up 20m from a bunch of big rocks, total slide min 300m.
Question now is how to rebuild confidence- I was pretty shocked. Especially because there's nothing I could have done differently, in the end, it didn't come down to my skiing level, or to being careful and waiting for an empty piste. Was pretty shaken afterwards- I think that's the end of skiing steeps in tricky terrain for me.
After that, even the red back down to Argentiere was really shaky for me.
Anyone pulled it back from a pretty bad fall before? I've become obsessed with skiing since the first day I tried it- I don't want to suddenly become a nervous skier!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
