 Poster: A snowHead
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Edited- I didn't feel comfortable with the old title (which was tongue-in-cheek) today given the horrific events in Belgium. My thoughts to all those affected. Pis and love, Belgium!
Hey!
Looking for some friendly reassurance here to convince me that I will, in fact, NOT die.
First season skiing, but lucky enough to live in Gva so am part of a regular ski club- have put in about 12 days. I'll be generous and describe myself as an 'confident novice'- am at the pre-carving stage, haven't yet freaked out at any reds I've met, and, in perfect conditions, can even descend them under control doing something that resembles skiing. And I have a couple of Italian blacks under my belt (which I suspect may have been a teensy bit overgraded- the Olympique at Sestriere and whatever lurks at the very top of Courmayeur).
In any case, I've spent the past week obsessively reseraching Grands Montets. But it's nigh on impossible to tell from a video just HOW BAD IT REALLY IS. Everything looks good on video, the Swiss Wall looks doable.
The thing is, next weekend that's where we're headed. The ski club banned it for this season's beginners, but, being the overcocky little weasel that I am, I asked my monitor whether there was a chance some of us quicker beginners would be OK. He asked around a bit with the others I'd skiied it recently and I was cleared. YAY! Until I started researching.
Then I switched to drinking to forget. But it's now around the corner.
Before you say 'no worries! just stay on the reds!'- his plan is to take us straight to the very top and right down Point de Vue/Pylons.
So, will I die? How can I increase my chances of not dying? Do I keep to skiier's left? Right? The chairlift down?
Thank you all, and, if I go, I leave my place at the EoSB at your disposal as a tribute to my short skiing career.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 22-03-16 14:44; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From what I understand, it's all about the snow conditions. I am what can be described as advanced-intermediate or early advanced skiier and I didn't bother with the Swiss wall as I know that while I can probably get down it, I won't be "skiing" down it properly and wouldn't have enjoyed it. If its snowed I understand it can be reasonably benign, but it's probably steeper than anything you have skiied down (or believe that people actually do ski down). If it's icy and you fall, yes you might die 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, you will die. Probably not during the outing you contemplate but yes, you will die.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Evissimus, the crux of skiing off the top of GM (both blacks have the same start), is the very first section. It's steep and currently scraped off down to hard pack.
Start skiers left maybe side slip a little facing right and then traverse out right to some soft moguls, then a few turns and you'll be on gentler ground. Skiers arrive in the cable car in groups of around 50, best to wait until not too many are on the pitch, usually just before the next car full arrive. It's well worth taking in the view for a couple of minutes to let the numbers subside.
If the worst happens don't panic, the slope opens out wide and there are no rocks to hit.
Sharp edges will help.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Surely some mistake here. Grands Montets is Chamonix/Argentierre... Swiss Wall is in Avoriaz. Not ever having been to Avoriaz I can't be sure it doesn't have a Grands Montets too
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No mistake, op lives in Geneva.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Evissimus wrote: |
| Hey!... my short skiing career. |
Yo!
GM is a nice little area and ideal to train for off-piste; La Tour too. It seems to me you're really pushing hard to charge up your "skiing career" ladder.
May offer a little bit of (free and therefore worthless) advice ... take it easy and plan out your skiing career a bit more.
My first trip to GM was a bit of a disaster. I just wasn't good enough, didn't have the tools for off-piste and struggled throughout. Fortunately, I was with a great group who were very supportive of each other (no macho BS), so I had a great holiday, nevertheless.
Spend some time and money for training/coaching to gain some skills and plenty of practice. There are several companies that provide such a service. When you do decide to push yourself, you'll have the self-confidence of sound technique/skills/tools to fall back on. You won't think, "Will I die?", but "This looks grrrreat!"; it'll be a lot more fun and a much more joyful experience.
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@ALQ, it very much sounds as though @Evissimus is already doing as you suggest and has the quasi-locals advantage of a weekend ski club to help with.
GM is (as long as you stick to the pistes) no worse than anywhere else. I haven't been up this year but while pdv/pylones is at the tougher end of the black spectrum, it's certainly doable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I agree with Pam.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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. . .whats the point? This is like millionaires climbing Everest because they can afford to, not because they are qualified . . .why put yourself at risk by even bothering . . .a better goal would be to properly carve blues then reds . . .a challenge that many (especially on reds) still cannot achieve after years of piste bashing . . .achieve this and the buzz will be far better than sideslipping/scraping/falling down a bucket-list black . . .
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I agree. What is the point of doing this? You'll get down it one way or another but you certainly won't enjoy it and although you may get down it on skis you won't have skied down.
I'm also confused by the location. The Swiss Wall is in Avoriaz.
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You know it makes sense.
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The general consensus is that most people eventually die. I am, however, immortal, until proven otherwise - YMMV.
I'm of the "JFDI" school of thought; assuming fitness and general competence, reasonable kit and good insurance, why not? If you end up having to side-slip down then you'll still have learnt something, even if it's just "I didn't enjoy that much". Just don't hurt anybody else (and preferably not yourself either) in the process.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Fear of death is what makes skiing exciting....up to the age of 24 (see how precise I'm being with the age).
After that, it's progressively about finding ways of staying alive...and not being killed by someone who is directly challenging the Grim Reaper to do his worst. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Of course there is a point. Apart from the first steep bit the PdV is a beautiful, not too difficult run. The first bit can be navigated by traversing (and possibly falling). It sounds as if it will be icy, so you will need to commit to the turns and not hesitate, but you should find you get down.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Old Fartbag, . . .totally agree - I only decided to grow up at 25 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| warrell wrote: |
| Surely some mistake here. Grands Montets is Chamonix/Argentierre... Swiss Wall is in Avoriaz. Not ever having been to Avoriaz I can't be sure it doesn't have a Grands Montets too |
Can someone clarify this for those of us who are confused?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| warrell wrote: |
| Surely some mistake here. Grands Montets is Chamonix/Argentierre... Swiss Wall is in Avoriaz. Not ever having been to Avoriaz I can't be sure it doesn't have a Grands Montets too |
Can someone clarify this for those of us who are confused? |
The Swiss Wall that I skied (survived), was definitely in Avoriaz, as you headed over to the Swiss resorts...and the chairlift of shame was there if you needed it.
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I can confirm with 100% certainty that yes, at some point you will die 
However, statistically it's unlikely that skiing will play any part of that, especially if on an actual patrolled piste route.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| warrell wrote: |
| Surely some mistake here. Grands Montets is Chamonix/Argentierre... Swiss Wall is in Avoriaz. Not ever having been to Avoriaz I can't be sure it doesn't have a Grands Montets too |
Can someone clarify this for those of us who are confused? |
The Swiss Wall that I skied (survived), was definitely in Avoriaz, as you headed over to the Swiss resorts...and the chairlift of shame was there if you needed it. |
The OP seems a little confused, as they talk about going to Grand Montets but then go on to talk about videos of the Swiss Wall.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Swiss Wall is on the Swiss side of Portes du Soleil so it is not Avorianz. Belongs to Les Crosets/Champery. AS you stand at the top you are at the border between France and Switzerland.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Look on the bright side, at least it will be a quick death. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Wall in early season in good soft snow conditions is an enjoyable ski once you have made that first turn.
The Wall at Easter when the moguls have sheer front faces 3 meters high and everything is sheet ice is a different story.
Will you die on it? Who knows?
But every year the Wall kills a few.
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A better question might be "will my ineptitude injure somebody else? I was skiing at a reasonable speed down a quiet blue run today when a lad, caning it, passed me, only to crash spectacularly below me, skis all over the place. I was able to pick up one of his skis and the friend I was skiing with got the other. The lad, about 17, was embarrassed, as well he might be. His carving wasn't as good as he thought it was and he could have taken me out if he'd fallen just above rather than below me. And that was an easy run, just the sort of wide, steepish and well groomed run that tempts people to ski too fast. When people die or are seriously injured on ski slopes it's sometimes because somebody hit them at speed.
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You know it makes sense.
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Agreed @pam w, just because you can get down something, does not mean you can ski it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Evissimus, JFDI- as posted above. Taking the cable car up to the top of the GM is fantastic. The view alone is magnificent. Have a watch of the Blizzard of Argghs before hand to see how they did it in the 80's. Soak in the view- have coffee (but perhaps avoid the loos at the top).
Both PdV and Pylons are hard, proper black runs. There are certainly steeper blacks, and longer, and ones with bigger moguls. And the top bit is a bit steep and is often a bit icy. But few runs have the ambience, remoteness, height, gradient, cold, wind and length (in my experience). They are my two favourite runs and they also have the opportunity of a fantastic lunch at le Chalet Refuge- yum yum yum. As well as the potential to double up and then ski Variant Hotel (which is hard++++) a laughable red.
Both are really long with 1000+m descent which is apart from a bit of a track at the bottom unpisted and in wild terrain. Whilst they are the only pistes from the top you will share a cable car with people going in almost every direction. PdV is steep at the top- but also has a little wall just below the turning for Pylones- which can be brutally steep especially on skiers left.
Go for it an have a blast and a great lunch.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 13-03-16 18:09; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks DB- Glenn is my hero.....@Evissimus, just don't do that and you'll be fine!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Evissimus,
You mention that you have only been skiing for a very short time.
Do you know how to side slip properly? It is a very basic skill which it seems to me that some beginners never get taught today. You need to be able to side slip under control vertically, forward and backward. That will help you down many steep and difficult sections.
As has been pointed out, a lot depends on the conditions. If it is hard and icy however, anyone that does not know how to side slip, I suggest should think carefully about attempting such conditions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I love the commentaries on these clips!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For info, I've been skiing loads and I can get down most blacks and I wouldn't do the wall. It's very steep and doesn't look especially fun.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Flinnster wrote: |
I can confirm with 100% certainty that yes, at some point you will die
However, statistically it's unlikely that skiing will play any part of that, especially if on an actual patrolled piste route. |
As I understand it, the Swiss Wall is not a marked piste
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| Themasterpiece wrote: |
As I understand it, the Swiss Wall is not a marked piste |
It is.
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It very much is @Themasterpiece, they've even put a viewing gallery/ restaurant at the top so you can wave off the hopefuls easily
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On piste maps (past and/or present) the Pas de Chavanette has been drawn as a dotted line, which is identified in the key as an itineraire.
But then, an itineraire could still be classed as a marked piste, albeit an ungraded one.
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All, thank you so much for your advice! You're wonderful
Regarding the Swiss Wall- yes, it's in Portes du Soleil. Only reason I mentioned it is because of so much lurking here and hearing horror stories (which of course led me to YouTube), and the fact that everything on video looks like a nice easy run! So it was my 'benchmark of death'.
Regarding safety- even on runs I regard as 'doable' but too steep to easily stop, I never attempt a turn if there's someone directly in my line. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I took someone out at speed. I'll be there with a monitor who will, I assume, go first.
As to 'why'- I'm lucky enough to have the chance to ski most weekends. That gives me the luxury of mixing technically progressing with doing things a bit more 'for the hell of it'. That's what I tell myself at any rate. There might be a little bit of the fact thta my ex will be there, who is, of course, a super-offpiste-pro-gnarly-mofo, and, running into him the other day he asked me 'so, are you snowplowing yet?', the only real reply was 'as a matter of fact, I'll be with you guys at GM next weekend'. No backing down after that.
Booked a 2 hour private today at Avoriaz and asked the instructor literally to scare me. We did some pretty mogully offpiste in the snowcross area, which he likened to GM- completely unskiable for me for the most part, but it proved that I could sideslip/edge my way down safely fitting in a few turns where I felt safe doing so. Good thing is, spring is coming and it's still snowing, but the moguls are softening
I really do appreciate all your advice- seems it's a question of heading left, sideslipping down the first part and then hopefully plainer sailing.
Thanks again!!!
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FAQ
- which struck terror but was actually ok.
