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Ski Ability levels

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Tour operators and holiday companies often ask you to provide you're skiing ability level when booking lessons, hiring equipment or even just filling out a feedback form.

There are typically 4 or 5 levels ranging from 0 (complete beginner) up to 4 (expert/advanced).

The problem is there generally seems to be a big jump between the descriptions of a 3 and a 4. 3 tends to be something along the lines of being able to perform parallel turns on a blue while a 4 skis with speed and confidence on all runs, off piste etc.

On this scale I'm probably about a 3.5 and I'm guessing many others feel the same way but there doesn't seem to be a category for that! What do you do, put yourself down or big yourself up?!
Puzzled
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I'd always put my score down a bit. Don't think the info actually gets used, but in the event that it gets referred to when my bindings are set then I'd rather have them releasing easier if needed. There's no need to big yourself up, the TO doesn't care how well you ski, the only advantage I can think you might get is better equipment, but that's mostly judged by the hire shop anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
On a similar topic, when hiring skis, are the more expensive black/gold category skis generally better for everyone or would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?
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SlipnSlide wrote:
would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?


Yes.
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In my experience if you've any doubt at all go for the lower. It won't make that much difference anyway because it's only to give people a rough idea. They won't make any decisions purely based on what you say, they will always make you ski before they allocate you an ability group.

Last lesson I took, the instructor kicked me out of the group because I needed to be in the harder one (much to my satisfaction and glory among my companions) So don't think they want to hold you back.

It could make a difference if you go somewhere that is only catering for experts and you find out that, after all, you are not.
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olderscot wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?


Yes.


Are you able to elaborate? Is it because the cheaper skis are less stiff and therefore easier to turn at slower speeds?
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Quote:

In my experience if you've any doubt at all go for the lower


I'm not sure about that. I have two mates who are both very accomplished skiers and they are both on skis a size too short because they were a bit self-effacing when they described their ability in ski shops.

I think ski schools and ski shops are used to people overstating their ability and discount that. If you understate it then you are apt to get poor advice.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
My approach is to simply state the types of terrain I like skiing and the sorts of turns I like to make. Let them interpret that.
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I've seen some pretty silly "Ski Ability Levels" at various places / TO. They can be comically terrible like:

Level 0 - "What's a Ski?"
Level 1 - "I can Ski in a Straight line in that V shape..."
Level 2 - "I can Ski turns in that V shape..."
Level 3 - "I can Ski turns on a Blue / Red keeping my planks parallel ok"
Level 4 - "I'm Lindsey Vonn and Hermann Maier incarnate, you think you can out ski me? Ha, I will break you"

On that basis I'd always put myself a Level 3 as I'm way past Level 2, But I'm nowhere near Level 4. In this case Level 3 could be broken down into about 3/4 levels on it's own.

So yeah I know exactly what you mean.

To be honest I think I fall into

Level x - "I don't care, where is the next umbrella bar?"


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 8-03-16 15:11; edited 1 time in total
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jedster wrote:
Quote:

In my experience if you've any doubt at all go for the lower


I'm not sure about that. I have two mates who are both very accomplished skiers and they are both on skis a size too short because they were a bit self-effacing when they described their ability in ski shops.

I think ski schools and ski shops are used to people overstating their ability and discount that. If you understate it then you are apt to get poor advice.


Given the ski carriage costs, I always think you may as well hire until you know what you need. Then you can just change them at the end of the day and get different ones, if you want to.
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Basically on that scale you are a 3 until you are comfortable skiing all and everything in a resort, then you are a 4. Then there is a log scale until you are a genuine expert. Anyone who is a 3 doesn't need top high performance kit though what they do have should be appropriately tuned i.e. it shouldn't be necessary to rent a world cup SL ski to get something with a decent edge angle and sharpness. I have my doubts as to how well serviced all rental kit is.
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Quote:

The problem is there generally seems to be a big jump between the descriptions of a 3 and a 4. 3 tends to be something along the lines of being able to perform parallel turns on a blue while a 4 skis with speed and confidence on all runs, off piste etc.

Quote:

I've seen some pretty silly "Ski Ability Levels" at various places / TO. They can be comically terrible like:

Level 0 - "What's a Ski?"
Level 1 - "I can Ski in a Straight line in that V shape..."
Level 2 - "I can Ski turns in that V shape..."
Level 3 - "I can Ski turns on a Blue / Red keeping my planks parallel ok"
Level 4 - "I'm Lindsey Vonn and Hermann Maier incarnate, you think you can out ski me? Ha, I will break you"

No wonder so many people are stuck on "intermediate plateau", if ski schools treats all parallel turners all the same until they somehow magically become Lindsey Von by skiing "Blue / Red keeping my planks parallel ok" for a while!

It would probably explains why people no longer take any lessons once they can "turn on Blue / Red keeping my planks parallel ok". Quite understandably, if the punters perceive ski school isn't going to care about people above the " turns on a Blue / Red keeping my planks parallel ok" level any more, they're better off save the money and just ski around.
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If I was going to rate myself on a TO's simple list from 1-4 I'd always choose 4 (expert) even though I don't consider myself to be a true expert. So why a 4? Simply because I'm a better skier than 99% of their typical holiday customers and the scale is intended to rank their customers and very very few of those would be true experts. So I would take 1 to be a complete beginner, 2 to be someone who can manage linked turns on a blue run, 3 to be the average intermediate who can ski most pistes, but not with much style and 4 to be someone reasonably advanced and extending right up to pro level in rare cases. I mean how many pros are going to be standing in line for hire skis with a TO group?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
SlipnSlide wrote:
olderscot wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?


Yes.


Are you able to elaborate? Is it because the cheaper skis are less stiff and therefore easier to turn at slower speeds?


That's pretty much it. The top level skis are really intended for expert skiers who have the skills to really work them or need something special (such as off piste skis). The chances are a cautious intermediate skier is going to find them harder to ski and won't benefit from the higher level of specs or options available to them.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@SlipnSlide, have a look at our levels guide (click on my signature link) and check out the videos of each level. We have 13 levels in our system and most people usually find a close match...
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@olderscot, actually, I'm not sure that's always the case. Some of the Chamonix shops, the better the grade of ski, just the better the ski quality. Not necessarily any more difficult to ski on.
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@skimottaret, I am struggling to decide whether I am a 10.54 or 10.55 on your scale.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SlipnSlide wrote:
On a similar topic, when hiring skis, are the more expensive black/gold category skis generally better for everyone or would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?

I'd put myself as an early intermediate, but booked the premium option on my latest trip just because I wanted some more options for swapping if I didn't like them (very small price difference) but when booking I mistakenly clicked beginner instead of intermediate. When I arrived to collect them I was visibly suprised to be presented with some approx 155 length skis (I'm 6ft) The tech said "you are beginner no?", I said that I was an intermediate. He disappeared and came back with exactly the same skis but in 174 length. So in this shop at least the stated level seems to determine the length (and probably the din) rather than the model...
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@skimottaret, Thanks, that's a much more sensible scale. I'm probably about a 7 on that if I'm being honest, maybe edging towards an 8 but not quite there yet.
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Tubaski wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
On a similar topic, when hiring skis, are the more expensive black/gold category skis generally better for everyone or would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?

I'd put myself as an early intermediate, but booked the premium option on my latest trip just because I wanted some more options for swapping if I didn't like them (very small price difference) but when booking I mistakenly clicked beginner instead of intermediate. When I arrived to collect them I was visibly suprised to be presented with some approx 155 length skis (I'm 6ft) The tech said "you are beginner no?", I said that I was an intermediate. He disappeared and came back with exactly the same skis but in 174 length. So in this shop at least the stated level seems to determine the length (and probably the din) rather than the model...


I think that's typical of most ordinary hire shops i.e. they only have very average skis anyway that wouldn't intimidate the average intermediate. The last time I hired skis was in Whistler many years ago and the main hire shop had nothing that you would call "difficult" to ski. It was all low-mid range Salomon stuff and it would have been in pretty much anyone's best interest to get the best of what they had available. I remember having similar experiences in most large European hire shops too, unless you search out more specialised shops were you can hire pretty much anything you need. So that's what I used to do if I didn't have my own kit with me. But it's obviously important not to lie about your ability when taking DIN settings or you may end up with them on the high side - although most hire shops are conservative on their setting, for obvious reasons.
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olderscot wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
olderscot wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?


Yes.


Are you able to elaborate? Is it because the cheaper skis are less stiff and therefore easier to turn at slower speeds?


That's pretty much it. The top level skis are really intended for expert skiers who have the skills to really work them or need something special (such as off piste skis). The chances are a cautious intermediate skier is going to find them harder to ski and won't benefit from the higher level of specs or options available to them.


The "top level" skis at most large hire shops are nothing like top end skis though. Unless you are hiring from a more specialist shop.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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@skimottaret, good guide you have there and the videos really help a lot. From reading the descriptions I thought I was probably a 10, but after watching the videos I think I'm more a lazy 11 i.e. I tend to favour skiing easier terrain these days. I'd say my wife is an 8 or 9 and our 6 year old is rapidly catching up with her and I reckon I'm on borrowed time there too!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
SlipnSlide wrote:
olderscot wrote:
SlipnSlide wrote:
would a cautious intermediate actually be better off on a pair of cheaper red/silver skis?


Yes.


Are you able to elaborate? Is it because the cheaper skis are less stiff and therefore easier to turn at slower speeds?


Actually I'd have said No, you'd be better off on more expensive hire skis.

Yes, paying for the top class of ski in a hire shop will get you access to some of the odder skis that require more skill to use but in my general experience if you don't specifically ask for a set of crazy powder surf boards what you'll get is a pair of basically new, well serviced and looked-after piste skis. Now that's probably not going to help a beginner but the first time as a cautious intermediate you put on a pair of skis with really sharp edges it's a revallation. All that nonsence your ski instructors had spouted over the years about trusting your edges makes sence - and of course the more you trust your edges, the more you get your weight forward and the better the edges work. I can remember my first set of good edges and the confidence it gave me that they WOULD turn when I wanted them to removed the 'cautious' from my intermediate skiing.
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uktrailmonster wrote:
The "top level" skis at most large hire shops are nothing like top end skis though. Unless you are hiring from a more specialist shop.


I think it depends on the shop. To me it seems that 'top end' is relative to the 'bargain end' and is usually just a bit newer and tidier.
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That's what I'm saying. If you walk into the average hire shop and ask for their "best" skis, you are extremely unlikely to be handed a super stiff pair of SL/GS race skis complete with razor sharp edges or at the other end of the spectrum a pair of super fat off-piste boards. You will most likely be handed a bland pair of cooking mid-fat Salomons, Rossis etc with reasonable edges if you are lucky. Nothing that an average intermediate couldn't easily ski on. I certainly wouldn't read into the 1-4 level thing as in any way relating to the actual level of skis you receive. Even if you said you were Bode Miller, you would still get the same bland pair of skis, except maybe a slightly fresher set at a longer length. They may have a couple of different ski models i.e. beginner and intermediate level. It's only when you go to more specialist shops that you see anything different and they are usually geared toward demo with a view to buying.
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For tuition, kind of what @uktrailmonster says. Even with @skimottaret's level list that has twice as many levels as other lists, I could never pick a single level to describe my ability. It's not a linear scale from beginner to Vonn, with a badge each time you go up one level. But after that first week once you're let out on the mountain alone, it's very much a toolbox of skills to use in an array of conditions.
So for me it was always that I'm definitely at least level N, but with parts of N+1 and N+2, and maybe N+3 too, but really need to work on specific skills from N+1 (eg bumps, steeps).
And then when out on the mountain with Rob, I thought I needed to demote myself a level, but then when watching the video replay in the chalet before dinner, it all looks technically rather sound, and N+2.

For rental, though, I'd always pick beginner for week 1 or so, then something reasonably high after that to get decent skis. Experts will have their own skis anyway, so ultra-platinum rental level is still "intermediate" (excepting any skis for a specific niche to rent for a powder day or something).

edit: I am 3 different levels on @skimottaret's scale. I'll refrain from choosing which of those I think I am, but would obviously pick one to put on the course sign-up form, and since both rob+scott have both seen me ski, I trust them to choose the right group for me (next season, with a bit of luck, and hopefully with a load of bumps to practice on too).
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Can't remember what i was given for the first week of my holiday this year, but I got on brilliantly with them. The next week I rented a pair of Kastle LX72's and hated them. I downgraded on Day 2 to an inferior ski with a smaller turning circle and had a great time for the rest of the week. I'd definitely say that too good a ski can be a problem.
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
Can't remember what i was given for the first week of my holiday this year, but I got on brilliantly with them. The next week I rented a pair of Kastle LX72's and hated them. I downgraded on Day 2 to an inferior ski with a smaller turning circle and had a great time for the rest of the week. I'd definitely say that too good a ski can be a problem.


"Lightweight and easy-going the LX72 is incredibly easy to ski for the progressing intermediate skier. Ideal for women, but also for lighter male skiers too wanting a forgiving carver to develop their skiing on."

Not exactly an "expert" level ski then. All this proves is that some people get on with specific ski models and others don't. It takes a while to learn what characteristics you like and dislike in a ski, whatever level it actually is.
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@uktrailmonster,
Quote:

Lightweight and easy-going the LX72 is incredibly easy to ski for the progressing intermediate skier. Ideal for women, but also for lighter male skiers too wanting a forgiving carver to develop their skiing on."

Not exactly an "expert" level ski then. All this proves is that some people get on with specific ski models and others don't. It takes a while to learn what characteristics you like and dislike in a ski, whatever level it actually is.


Fair point. I never said it was an 'expert' ski, just possibly a little too 'expert' for me.
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