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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I expect many people who've skied Santons in Val D at 4pm thinking it's 'just a blue' will have been cursing whoever graded it...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@HoneyBunny, +1. La face was easier than Santons most of the time in my limited experience.

Clearly not saying that is always the case, but Santons has to be the worst blue graded run I have ever experienced.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Run of nightmares, knew its reputation, but skied it anyway never so glad to reach then end
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@abc, good post! In control of both speed and direction, regardless of condition of slope, is what's needed, whether on or off piste.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Well, I will be facing a challenge tomorrow that would have me eat my words: report said it's all man-made snow, quite icy...

Will report back at end of day. Smile
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chopkins13, we skied your Frog run today - realised I'd never done this run before as always cut off through the trees before getting to your scary bit.
You're right: it is an odd run. Long flat start, short scary bit, then not so scary narrow slightly bumpy road back to the lift.
And - lo and behold! - as we started down today, there was a guy with skis on his shoulder walking back up. Seems you started a trend Toofy Grin
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Piste grading is just like kms of piste, something most resorts magically come up with based on there own peculiar rules, reasons, and criteria.

When you can view a piste from a lift or you have alternatives it's not normally a problem. The Mira piste being an example where you can avoid the drop-off by continuing straight ahead if required.

Bellecote, Rochu, Mio, Colosses and all the Becoin black runs offer nice challenges and would normally be substantially more difficult than the reds mentioned in the thread so perhaps they are graded "ok". Chiupe was a red run not so long ago and that WAS sometimes a very hard red depending on conditions.

More and more places now have Natur or Itinerary runs so that seems to be adding a fourth (or fifth I guess including greens in France) grading on marked runs and includes a lot of former black pistes (sometimes but not always changing from pisted to unpisted).


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 17-03-16 19:23; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Jonpim, I'm glad we weren't the only ones then!! haha!

What condition was it in? Icy and scrapped or soft and fluffy? What other piste would you say the 'scary' bit is similar to in La Plagne? Arriving on Saturday and keen to avoid any walks this time around!!!!
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Millom wrote:
Piste grading is just like kms of piste, something most resorts magically come up with based on there own peculiar rules, reasons, and criteria.


Yup. In the case of blues and blacks in particular, resorts are typically desperate to make the piste map look like you can explore the whole domain on blues and so will happily assign blue to something that's clearly red in order to achieve that, and also to make reds into blacks if it wouldn't otherwise look like there was much available for advanced skiers. There aren't any super-steep resorts in my neck of the woods, but I can think of a couple of famous Alpine ones where I wouldn't be surprised if blacks got called reds for the opposite reason.

In any case, of course, theoretically the colour isn't directly about steepness at all, but rather about safety. Baqueira in Spain, for example, has some excellent proper blacks, but also a black that's barely more difficult than a top-end blue... because it has a very long, very high and very exposed drop all the way off the side, which is not at all the kind of thing you want blue-run skiers to flock to. Your mountain skills as someone capable of skiing blacks would only come into it when something starts to go wrong...
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I think there is one very big lesson in all this and something we should all remember - taking your skis off and climbing back up if in doubt is both sensible and often the brave option. Carrying on when you are tired and the terrain looks seriously uninviting makes no sense! It wont happen often but when it does - go for it, there's no honour in a broken limb or worse.
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@FFIRMIN, thanks for the support, it felt horrible at the time but you're right, was the best outcome on the day!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@FFIRMIN, +1. Being able to sideslip well can be useful, too.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@dobby, after 20 mins of sideslipping in the morning down the top half of Kamikaze I don't think we could even have contemplated that - just goes to show tiredness + fear can really affect your ability and judgement
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You know it makes sense.
@chopkins13, must admit I've never tried 20 mins of it!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@dobby, haha yes, well maybe it was only 10 minutes but it felt like an hour - totally possessed by the fear - not something I'm proud of or would like to repeat in a hurry!!
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I'd be a little cautious to advocate taking skies off and walking as 'always' a good idea. Sometimes, particularly in harder terrain but in some other situations too I would say it can be impractical and sometimes even very dangerous. I believe that you're far better only going down something that you know you can ski whether that be with style or side-slipping etc. and taking your time is ok too. If you've struggled badly with one red run then why ski another that you haven't skied before and that you can't view from a lift before-hand?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:


I think that La Plagne has quite a few mis-labelled pistes, or pistes that have been graded when conditions are perfect.

I don't remember La Plagne having any steep pistes to speak of? I'm not being macho - there pistes where I ski mostly aren't very steep either. I did a couple of weeks at La Plagne and the blues and reds all seemed very samey to me. The blacks seemed to be stuck on the piste map just to give some aesthetic variety Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@jedster, as mentioned in my post above La Plagne actually has a good selection of quite difficult blacks and some interesting and testing off-piste. There are a fair few runs that would make the Face in Val d'Isere seem like a walk in the park. If you compare to Les Contamines for example then there is significantly more interest for advanced skiers on and off piste in La Plagne. Obviously there are also a load of easier runs too and the blacks are spread out but then it's a sizable ski area (even more so including Les Arcs). All the black runs I mention above would be considered black in 'any' ski resort and some marked as itineraries in somewhere like Zermatt. There are some easier blacks also but this is the same at most ski resorts (I guess to cater for the 'I skied a black run' group).
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No! No! Millom!! jedster is quite right.
(we've been selling La Plagne as a cushy family resort for years - we don't want any of the Espace Killy macho lot turning up and trashing our lovely runs snowHead )

@chopkins13, the frog run steep bit was ok: a few gently moguls with fluff on the top and hard stuff between. And that section is not very long: a couple of traverses and you would have been down. But really, the run is not worth the hassle.
As for runs with similar sections: difficult to tell. It does all depend on the time of day, light, your mental state, and condition of piste. But if you didn't enjoy the Frog run or Kamikaze, i would avoid L'esselet off Pierres Blanches on the way down from Dos Rond to Montchavin.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Jonpim, that run off Pierres Blanches has been closed whenever I've been there (both times was late March) but the entry to it always looks very steep to me. The red which Pierres Blanches (or is it Mont Blanc?) crosses a couple of times is pretty steep too, after accidentally attempting it once (my first week on skis too) I always take the jessie line past the Vanoise now Very Happy
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@Jonpim, sorry Smile

@chopkins13, I don't think there are any reds with steeper sections (short steep at end of Lognan maybe similar) but there are a few that are narrow that may be difficult for some people for different reasons e.g. Marmottes, Gavotte, Les Bois.

The only negatives regarding the skiing is the flat area around the top of Colosses and La Bergerie but you can see the runs to avoid and the fact there is no piste to the glacier area although there is an easy-ish off-piste route under the lift that is well skied.

Also worth noting the last little section above Plagne Centre from Vega side which is blue but quite difficult mainly because of the snow quality and number of people around where the pistes join. I would avoid this with timid beginners towards the end of the day.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 17-03-16 19:58; edited 3 times in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Jonpim, we did L'esselet in January on a 2 hr private lesson with Oxygene - was ok in itself but a little scraped in places. We've done the other red down to les coches (wrong turn by the wife when supposed to be heading to the Vanoise express as part of the montalbert to Vanoise timed challenge!) and thought that was OK.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Millom - I agree it isnt always a good idea to take skis off and walk, sometimes it is safer and easier to walk back up in skis but the principle remains the same - never be afraid to backtrack if the going gets too difficult or you cant be sure what lies ahead in increasingly tricky terrain, particularly off piste.
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Quote:

@jedster, as mentioned in my post above La Plagne actually has a good selection of quite difficult blacks and some interesting and testing off-piste. There are a fair few runs that would make the Face in Val d'Isere seem like a walk in the park. If you compare to Les Contamines for example then there is significantly more interest for advanced skiers on and off piste in La Plagne.


First off you'll note I said nothing about Les Arcs or off piste in my comment.
I think my main problem with La Plagne was being based in Plagne centre with young kids - meant I had limited window for free skiing and all the interesting skiing was quite a schlep away - takes ages to get up Bellecote for example. And you have to admit the skiing around Plagne Centre is at the insipid end of bland.

I'm not going to make extravagant claims for Les Contamines pistes other than to say the variety in a relatively compact area is quite a nice feature.
But I think the idea that La plagne offers "significantly more interest for advanced skiers ... off piste" is pretty challengeable!
The structure of Les C - basically 4 bowls - gives a huge area of relatively safe offpiste terrain with straight forward route-finding between the pistes which is ideal for advanced skiers developing their off piste skills. At the fringes of the area are long descents, lift accessed which can be demanding if you make them and require a bit more mountain sense. Then there is easy side country touring with or without a little climbing and couloir fun. And then there is the shock and awe of the MB Massif accessed by hut to hut from the village. It's a pretty complete package.
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@jedster, An 'A' for effort but a 'D' for accuracy Smile.

Plagne Centre offers direct access to Becoin chair lift that has a good selection of testing blacks as hard as you'll find in much of Europe (if we're talking marked black runs and not itineraries/off-piste).

For people not skiing blacks then the runs above Plagne Centre are really nice cruises too, interesting and long e.g. Vega area.

Yes I agree it takes time to get around the place (because it is large) but for an advanced skier this isn't too bad at all. You can get from Plagne Centre over to Les Arcs for a long ski day easily. The black runs Bellecote and Rochu are long and interesting with some technical challenge, perhaps two of the best black runs in the Alps and in my view better than anything in Les Arcs (which also has good black runs).

Les Contamines is a perfecty nice smaller resort but it doesn't have masses of off-piste potential within the ski area (I'm not sure about outside because I don't know it well enough).

I believe (as some is beyond my capabilities) La Plagne has some of the most interesting and challenging off-piste in the Alps away from the lifts/pistes for example routes down from Bellcote to Nancroix and Vanoise. It also has lots of off-piste within the ski area whether through trees or above the tree-line e.g. above Bauches or under the Roche de Mio.

If you want testing black runs, easy off-piste, or technical off-piste I think La Plagne fits the bill. Les Contamines is not on the same level for any of these categories of skier and La Plagne is often significantly under-rated in such areas (for whatever reasons).
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From davidof's website: http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Savoie/La-Plagne-Bellecote
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Off-pite map: http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Savoie/La-Plagne-Off-Piste-Map
Off-piste info: http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Savoie/La-Plagne-Off-Piste

Sorry for the thread drift just trying to correct jedster Smile.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Millom, please stop: see post above. jedster is quite correct: La Plagne is full of easy runs, vast areas of flat bits, and all-in-all boring.
(and people's opinion of a resort will only change with experience, never with words - indeed, you could repeat that sentence and remove the words "of a resort" and still be right . . . rolling eyes )
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Jonpim,

Some people's opinions (at least as expressed via this forum) will never change, too many posters with 'blinkers on' or no understanding of or wish to be 'objective'.

There won't be masses of people doing the blacks and off-piste in La Plagne anytime soon so you're alright!

Hope you've also spent the time exploring the many other great ski resorts in Europe (big and small).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Millom,
I hope you recognised that I have not made a single criticism of La Plagne's off piste potential. So pointing at lots of information about all the good off piste there is doesn't really further the debate much! I did argue with your assertion that the potential was very much better than Les C (I wasn't even challenging "better" if you read what I posted more carefully). As a bit of an enthusiast (nerd) about off-piste I'm actually well aware of the celebrated lines of the back of the Bellecote even though I haven't had the chance to ski them.
But as you've acknowledged you really don't know very much about Les Contamines off-piste (in that you miss the point if you just think of the area between the pistes which is only a part of the story), I'm not sure you are well placed to make a comparison. I'm not sure what you mean by "within the ski area" - European resorts don't really have firm resort boundaries (unlike North America).
Coming back to what I said at the start, I've skied a lot of ski areas large and small around France, Switzerland, Austria and Italy including all the big French areas with the exception of Serre Chevalier. I'm not saying La Plagne is bad just that in comparison to other big ski areas the piste skiing feels samey to me - just for example, in any area of 3V i feel you have more variety at your disposal without having to travel miles (just think of the variety of skiing available from the top of the Saulire for example). I appreciate that this is much less of an issue if you have full days but I was there with young kids so didn't have big blocks of time.
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