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Advice for the wannabee "mature" ski tourer

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi

we (Mrs PG and me) are both early late middle age skiers, and can ski (as opposed to "get down") most pistes apart from blacks with man-eating moguls (eg Le Tunnel AdH, Swiss Wall PdS) when it's back to survival mode. We have had a few forays into off piste - 2*4 day-tours with guide in Gressoney, a week's Ski Touring Intro course and a week in Niseko, trying to cope with with the deep, soft stuff - but are still not that confident (or competent TBH). We're both keen hill-walkers and love the chance to get away from the crowds and into the mountains so I think we're looking at the ski touring rather than the free-riding (lift-served) end of the off piste spectrum. The problem is what to do next. Day tours are a possibility but I'm just not sure that we are good enough skiers to enjoy the variety of snow conditions that we would expect to meet. I understand that a lot of this is practice (and the confidence that comes with it) so I guess the question would be how do we get this practice? I think we also still need some tuition. Neither of us are getting any younger and are perhaps more cautious than we used to be. Fitness might also be an issue - we can cope with 2-3 Munro's over the course of a day's hill-walking but we don't exercise regularly (lack of time, mainly). We're also realistic - if it's going to take a couple of seasons to get our skiing up to the required standard then we'll just retire gracefully back to the piste and have longer lunch stops. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@PetGriffin, there's plenty of easy to ski skitouring terrain, so don't let ability put you off! Snow is obviously very variable, but you should know what it will be like before you go. If you go a few days after a big storm, the likelihood is you'll get powder - but in many high traffic touring areas you might be surprised how quickly some areas get tracked!

Spring touring should probably make sense for you - corn snow just as it's warming up is both incredibly fun and very easy to ski.

Where do you ski? There are lots of touring guidebooks (online and print) available, though not so many in English, but probably people on here could give recommendations for their areas.

How is your avalanche and backcountry knowledge, btw?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi @clarky999. We have mainly skied in France (family hols) though recently had a lot of fun in the Dolomites. I think we would be happy skiing anywhere in Europe and would even consider further afield. We have had a couple of avalanche awareness lessons in the classroom and done the "locate the transceiver" sessions with a guide, but other than that we are novices so I don't think we would contemplate going it alone in the back country for a few years yet.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
This might sound like a defeatist suggestion but have you thought about cross-country skiing? There are areas with quite extensive trails (including long distance ones, over several days) and Norway has XC which is as "away from it all" and tough as you want.

I did a day's "intro to touring" a few years ago, with a guide, and really enjoyed it, though my ability to go uphill was better than my ability to go down. rolling eyes But it was quite expensive, and I wasn't sure how to progress it, on my own. The groups of gnarly young Frenchmen in the café in Beaufort where we met the guide looked like they'd run up mountains all day (and cycle over cols all summer). Intimidating. so the guide's suggestion I join a local club didn't really hit the spot and clearly it's unsafe to do touring alone, at least with my level of knowledge.

The technique of XC skiing is actually quite tricky to acquire - you fall over a lot and can break things - but it's generally safe, and can be done alone.

http://tracks-and-trails.com/index.php/eng/Cross-Country-Skiing/Alpine-Dates/Grand-Traverse-of-the-Jura
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@PetGriffin, hi and welcome to SH's

It already sounds like you've done quite a bit of "stuff" already and you are asking sensible questions.

Ski touring, like any other disciplines can be broken down into various categories, and you actually fit into one of the more popular ones!

Late middle age skiers, tired of the piste and want to get away from the hordes. As you admit you're not a gnarly powder hound but can ski.

We've now taken a fair few fellow geezernaires out for some tours, though none have really have had the aptitude or the motivation to want to "get into it", you on the other hand want to do it!

The true ski touring season has actually not started yet in the Alps, in that high altitude huts will not open till mid March, and spring snow is not that reliable.

Once we have spring snow, then ski touring takes on a completely different dimension. Spring snow is also the easiest snow to ski.

However it takes a degree of experience to know when and where to go. In our area we are blessed with a large number of ski tour routes, some are better than others for spring snow, though that depends on what time you depart and what aspect slope you choose.

When I first started touring I was with a guide purely because I had no idea of what it was about.

I could write loads on here in answer to your questions.

But I would suggest the following, if possible get yourself out to a touring area late March / April and do a series of day tours on your own. If you speak and understand French then www.skitour.fr has many routes.

Like I said, here in Serre Che if you have a car then there are so many such routes, we've done two in the last two days, we treat it as extension to dog walking.

You don't have to summit as my OH keeps reminding me, take a picnic / flask enjoy the up, with frequent stops if feeling tired. If you're use to hill walking then you have the right mindset.

French maps are great as they have the ski tour routes clearly marked, so along with a gps / smart phone and the mapping loaded that works very well. You can read contours so again choose mellow lines as opposed to multi kick turn technical routes.

If spring touring then aim to be climbing by 08:00 and down by 13:00 depending on the aspect as slides are frequent in the afternoon as temps rise.

There are any number of guides and specialist guiding Co's and if you have the budget then for sure it's the way to be sure of getting it right.

I'm doing four days with a guide and a mate week after next down in an area I don't know, but realistically I could probably do it on my own but there are some awkward logistics.

Have a look at the Ski Tour routes thread here in the off piste section and in the Serre thread and you'll find out more.

And as for skis / gear see the links to a couple of articles I wrote http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=124641

And @pam w, do you have a CAF where you are, I keep thinking how you would really enjoy what they do. It's not all gnarly, the average age is probably 60+ I go out with them on both their "sortie cool" randonees which are more relaxed and the age range and experience is varied., as well as the more advanced tours. And it's not just ski touring but snow shoeing as well etc etc walking in the summer etc


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 3-03-16 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@PetGriffin, Welcome to touring - it's a whole new dimension to skiing. It's as much about getting out in the mountains as it is about skiing back down again. Some resorts are now offering touring trails - protected tracks to skin up, then ski back down the pistes - and these are marked on the piste map. You could join a ski touring beginner's course, or the two of you could hire a Mountain Guide for the day (Approx 330 euros), who would show you the uphill and downhill techniques.
Fitness may be an issue. Skinning uphill is much harder than hillwalking, and if you're unfit, you'll arrive at the top completely exhausted, and with muscles so trembly that you'll be unable to ski back down again with any enjoyment. It would be worth getting you legs, core and cardiovascular fitness first - you'll enjoy the touring so much more.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wow - thanks all! @pamw - we have thought about XC skiing and actually did a fair bit in Canada years ago when Mrs PG was carrying No. 1 daughter. I never quite mastered telemark turns though, and Mrs PG's knees are a bit dodgy. But it is something to bear in mind. @Weathercam - we did look at Serre a few years ago but went to Gressoney instead. Will definitely give your comments some consideration. @chamcham - we have done some skinning, including a 900m ascent in the Swiss Alps. Our guide was kind to us and took it slowly, so the ascent was actually not that bad (until we had to climb thru the cornice at the top ...). But I think we would need to improve fitness to cope with 250m/hr type ascent rates. Oh, and master kick turns ....
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I was actually quite OK at kick turns, when doing the ascent on my "intro" day. Needs some hip flexibility etc and skinning up hill is hard work (though we only did 500m, hardly epic!) BUT I found those kick turns infinitely easier than trying to do proper turns on XC skis. Not telemark turns, but what in French are called "petits pas tournant" (I have no idea what they are called in English - step turns, perhaps).

I did enjoy the lightweight touring boots and for skiing on piste (I practised the day before, skinning up beside a drag lift and skiing down the piste) with heels fixed, it was just like downhill skiing.

But I'm now enjoying the XC, have some lessons now and then, and it'll be a while before I can master the 120kms of pistes in Les Saisies (amongst the highest in Europe, so many are just flat shleps in the valley). I'd like to do that Jura tour one year.

XC skiing is far easier on the knees than downhill. I'd not consider telemark, previously. Doing my routine lunges in the gym leaves me in no doubt that my knees couldn't cope.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
http://www.lessaisies.com/nordique-ski.html

The instructor, Jacques, featured in the video is one I did a week's course with at the end of last season. The final day we had a whole day trip, with a picnic, away from the tracks, and did about 22 kms. He is a farmer, like a lot of instructors, and pointed out various aspects of his summer grazing areas as we went. It was a great day out. Good for my French, as well as my skiing. wink
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@PetGriffin, based on what you have done already I think you may be surprised how many different ski touring options there could be for you. One option is to book with a UK specialist who groups together people of similar experience (and fitness). See: http://mountaintracks.co.uk/activity/ski-touring-safaris . If you are not keen on being grouped with others, the next best (but more expensive) option is to book an IFGMA guide to yourself. If you need tuition there are a number of business which can help eg Tinderbox http://tinderboxskischool.com/ski-touring-chamonix

You say that you need practice. We all do. But if you choose a resort based guide (as opposed to doing week long tours) and repeat visit the same area you should over time (assuming you have the kit and training) be able to venture into those same areas (subject to all disclaimers possible) to practice without a guide.

If you PM me I can point you in the right direction in the valley where I have a place.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Join the Eagle SKi Club where you will find a number of like-minded folk and plenty of organised tours at all levels:
http://www.eagleskiclub.org.uk/

Hook up with our very own offpisteskiing:
http://www.offpisteskiing.com/courses

Join one of the many commercially-organised tours:
http://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/ski/touring.html
http://www.exodus.co.uk/winter-holidays/ski-touring
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'd second the recommendation of the Eagle Ski Club, loads of great trips and intro courses.

As for feeling more confident on the way down in deeper snow conditions, you might consider an intro to powder week at heliskiing or catskiing operation in British Columbia. You'll get untracked conditions with a guide/instructor with the benefit of not being rushed like you would in an offsite scenario at resort. It'll cost a bit but in return you'll gain confidence and the miles needed not to mention a memorable experience. If you need suggestions let me know.

Owen
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hi Altis and OD. I had another look at the Eagle website and will sign up for next year. We thought about going to BC last Xmas but went to Japan instead, because it seemed more "powder sure" but conditions conspired against us Sad . I guess there's no such thing as guaranteed powder ....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Fascinating thread, I'm in the same boat (ish). Need to up my fitness levels this summer and think about signing up for something. Thanks for asking the question and for all the replies.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
In your shoes I think I'd concentrate on doing some regular offpiste courses/ guiding e.g. SH off piste bash, Snoworks, Wozzer etc to get some confidence/skillset up in variable conditions or maybe powder depending on how you luck out then take that into a touring environment. Pure guided touring or peer organised groups like Eagles won't offer you much in the way of (downhill)technique development so the risk is you get stuck with your present skillset and don't get your max enjoyment. It's even not too late to join the EOSB for this season where you can either have the option of off piste days with the excellent Phillippe or ad hoc groups of sHs going out to predominantly corn farm (depending on conditions of course).


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 9-03-16 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dave of the Marmottes, good points, thanks.
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