 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depends on the car, but I got a set of Thule chains for £47 from roofbox.co.uk, but if it's a hire car you won't know the exact wheel size etc. Locally supermarkets will sell them though
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Presumably the hire car comes with winter tyres? If so you shouldn't need snow chains unless it is snowing *really* heavily. If you do need to get some, I'm sure the garages in Brixlegg (bottom of Alpbachtal) will have some in, although there might not be a lot of choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@gazzaredcruiser, if it is that bad that you think you'll need chains, wait until you are on the road then drive a few kilometres on to Wörgl and buy a set if you still feel they are needed at one of the big outlets in the shopping centre in the west end of the town! I have been here in the mountains for the past 20 years and have only needed my chains once in all that time. Believe me unless your accommodation is up a farm track halfway up a mountain, you will not have a problem! This season I've not needed my chains at all so they are sitting in my winter box in the boot getting in the way!
@RobW, it is very rare for the garages (Tankstellen) to carry any kind of snow chains over here, so I would not count on that at all. All the locals will have them any way and most European car owners driving to the Alps will also have picked them up well in advance (unless they are Dutchies maybe  ) I needed to replace a wiper blade recently and went into a big motorway service shop and there was absolutely nothing that required the shop to carry different sizes for different vehicles.
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@foxtrotzulu, this is not France nor the UK, the Austrians know how to keep traffic moving. I drove down a 16% gradient this morning on a narrow road with passing places after it had snowed overnight and the snowploughs had not yet started (it was 05:00am and they were starting up in their yard next door to my house). No chains required, nor did my winter tyres cause me any griefor worries. Alpbach is at a similar altitude to my place with far better links down to the A12!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Samerberg Sue, Surely it's not just down to keeping the traffic moving? @gazzaredcruiser, probably has a lot less experience than you at driving on snow and I would have thought that the key question was whether there is a risk of losing traction on the way up or down. Of course another key question is whether people going to Alpbach ever need chains. If they never do and never carry them, then fair enough. If there are times when chains ARE needed then surely it's just a question of whether @gazzaredcruiser, is prepared to accept the level of risk. Do I presume that you don't ever carry chains?
Of course, if he rents/buys chains then he definitely won't need them. If he doesn't, then he definitely will!
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@foxtrotzulu, the law of sod! i'll watch the forecast and take a view, but i like @Samerberg Sue, idea of buying a Worgl before going up the Alpachtal.
thanks all,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| Samerberg Sue, Surely it's not just down to keeping the traffic moving |
Surely the bit that could have been added by Sue (but went without saying) was...."by keeping the roads ploughed and snow-free" ??
I'm sure it wasn't being suggested that cars would just be urged to drive on regardless by the authorities in about 15cm of snow...
Not saying it never happens but on countless Alps trips in the past 28 years (including more than 25 to Austria), I have never used chains in Austria - only once in France (up to Tignes), once between Italy and France (over the pass to Serre Chevalier from Turin) and once in Liechtenstein (up to Malbun) - so all at very high altitudes.
I'd just go with the snow tyres.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@mountainaddict, Interesting question. I would estimate that chains have been necessary to get either up or down the mountain in approximately 20% of my holiday trips. I.e. One in ten journeys.. Not necessarily used by me, but also by the mini-bus or coach.
So, are we really saying that people going to Alpbach don't need chains? I've frequently seen French police stopping people and insisting on chains regardless of the tyres they have.
I suppose this thread boiler down to one of two questions:
1. Is it inconceivable that the OP might need chains? (Presumably not)
2. Is the likelihood sufficiently low that the OP should just take the risk (and risk missing the flight home or having a long delay getting up the mountain)
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@foxtrotzulu, in Austria there isn't so much 'getting up the mountain'. Ski resorts are generally proper working towns and villages, there aren't so many purpose-built ski stations. Many of these towns are on the valley floor, easily accessed by motorways and main roads. The Austrians are very good at keeping these roads clear and keeping things moving. Although I have never been to Alpbach, I believe it is easily accessed by road without any steep climbs. I'm sure it's rare that snow chains would be needed as all cars will have mandatory winter tyres. Samerberg Sue lives very nearby across the German border and her village is reached by a reasonably winding uphill road, yet I still think she has very rarely needed to use chains, if at all.
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You know it makes sense.
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@queen bodecia, Fair enough. I bow to your and her superior knowledge. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w, wise words
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I will counter that with seeing local cars so presumably well equipped off the side of the road down into Wörgl this year. It doesn't need a huge amount of snow to cause difficult conditions, in my experience it is wet snow falling on to very cold roads and freezing from the bottom up leaving a layer of slush on the top that cause bigger problems. In the case of the OP I wouldn't bother if the forecast is OK but be prepared for a trip to Wörgl (15 mins) if the forecast changes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Chris_n, thanks
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@Chris_n, sorry Chris, but you live in an apartment house up a seriously steep hill which is a side road and therefore not high on the clearing list, the road into Alpbach from the autobahn is nowhere near as steep as your hill and you damned well know it. I've never had to use chains ever to get into the Wildschonau and that includes during the "Jahrhunderte Winter" (winter of the century) in 2005/2006 when I was working with school groups in Oberau until mid March when I busted my ACL.
Chains won't help on black ice any way!
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@Samerberg Sue, I was talking about the road up from Wörgl to Niederau not the road up to the apartment. I know it is unusual but one Friday when I wasn't working we went down to get some shopping, on the way down there were many cars heading in both directions putting chains on in the various stopping places. On the way back up there was a local car off the side of the road. There is a sign coming out of Wörgl that can enforce fitting chains although I have never seen it used and I am sure there will be the same going to Alpbach.
As I said my recommendation was to watch the forecasts and be prepared for a trip to pick some chains up if required but it would probably only be required if transfers are at 'out of hours' times. Maybe I should have said 'in the unlikely event'.
Chains are certainly better in ice than rubber tyres.
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@Chris_n, normally there isn't enough snow depth on the road to be able to use chains when it's icy!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Problematical roads are typically not composed neatly of one kind of snow or ice. There is often a mixture, which changes fairly frequently as the day (or the snowfall) goes on of rock hard icy ruts, slush on top of ice, bits of bare tarmac, bare tarmac with a couple of inches of slush (one of the most slippery.....) running water which has frozen overnight, black ice soft deep snow and all kinds of combinations of the above. The gradient of the road is also a crucial factor, of course. On a flat or fairly gentle gradient you will probably be able to drive on any of the above, with winter tyres. Though not necessarily with optimum traction.
As soon as you start losing traction, chains will help though caution, along with experience of driving in those conditions, will often enable you to manage without.
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| gazzaredcruiser wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu, the law of sod! i'll watch the forecast and take a view, but i like @Samerberg Sue, idea of buying a Worgl before going up the Alpachtal.
thanks all, |
I've understood this now. I was curious what a worgl was and how I could get one for my car.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't see what the issue is with the debates about chains / socks. The Thule chains I bought were £48 brand new. They are easy to fit, and I don't think anyone really doubts that chains are better than socks which are better than summer tyres. So for that price, its a trivial amount to pay in relation to the overall cost of a skiing trip and chains take up so little space in the boot that there is no real advantage in socks. OTOH, if your car can't take chains then you simply don't have that option.
My experience from the last two trips is that the locals either use winter tyres (if the conditions allow) or chains. Almost none of them use socks. Read into that what you will...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@larkim, If you regularly drive in difficult conditions and might need chains from time to time (which describes me) then chains make good sense. In a warped kind of way I enjoy fitting chains because it means there's lots of snow around!
However, if you are just driving for one holiday week, and the chances are that you won't need them, and you are scared of fitting chains and CBA to practice, then the socks that you fit at a designated "aire de chainage" are far better than the dreaded chains which only come out of their tidy little box, with the pristine instructions, when you slither to a halt half way up a hill in the dark. 
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If you are flying out to anywhere in the Alps for just a week and feel you just have to hire a car, simply spend the money booking the chains that go with that car. Buying in advance on the off chance they may just fit seems daft! Especially if the car is only going to sit there all week.
Or if you are that worried about either end of the journey, spend the money on a decent private transfer there and back and let someone who really knows the area take all the strain.
Snow chain or snow socks is simply irrelevant in the end!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Buying in advance on the off chance they may just fit seems daft!
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completely bonkers, I'd say.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It won't get you past the gendarmes, but you could do worse than take a can of liquid snow chains with you for a tenner.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@foxtrotzulu, some good reviews for that on Amazon, from people who haven't tried it yet.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I've understood this now. I was curious what a worgl was and how I could get one for my car.
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it's what an Austrian boy scout wears
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@clarky999, no if you are in the mountains not on the autobahn then trashing a set of chains on thin ice is preferable to killing yourself / someone else!
While I completely agree the chances of these problems are for most travellers remote as more people are doing diy holidays using booking.com etc it pays to know exactly where you are going and to be prepared. If you are in the middle of town in a hire car you can probably forget about needing chains but if the weather is inclement then at least knowing where you can get the relevant equipment is vital. Yes we live up a steep hill but the apartment house has 10 apartments for weekly rent and there are many more places above and below us on the same road providing accommodation and every time there is either a snowfall or icy conditions people are either off the road or need to be pulled up.
As @Samerberg Sue, said in her first post if problems look likely carry on to Wörgl and pick chains up in OBI or Forstinger, if the forecast changes during the week and you feel that you may need chains plan on going to one of the above places before the weather changes.
At this time of year it is very unlikely that you will need anything but again as @Samerberg Sue, says get a private transfer if you have any doubts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Chris_n, do they actually work on ice though, is what I mean? Surely you need some give in the surface to get any extra grip from chains? Studded tyres and 4x4 is probably what you'd really need for real ice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarky999, I'd imagine that on hard ice chains will just slip/break.
It's pretty rare to encounter thick ice anyway, in our experience. At least around the Haute Savoie.
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@under a new name, that's my thoughts too.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| @Chris_n, do they actually work on ice though, is what I mean? Surely you need some give in the surface to get any extra grip from chains? Studded tyres and 4x4 is probably what you'd really need for real ice. |
Ice is the one time that Chains are areal benefit over non studded snow tyres, and yes they do work. At low speeds much better than normal (available in the alps) studded tyres.
When descending from Verbier on early (5am) driving an airport transfer ( 4 regular snowtyres( I reached the freezing rain level - very scary stuff, about 1 to 2 inches thick. It took me 2 hairpins of holding the front of the van into the bank (I had barely been running at tickover in 1st) to stop.
While putting the chains on I fell over many times and the van pivoted through 90 degrees, it kept trying to squash me.
With chains on I crawled down to Le Chable below the freezing rain level.
While I was doing this 2 local taxis, both 4wd with studded tryres and cautious drivers tried to climb the hill, both rolled their vans!
The municipality cleared the road by running an excavator with heavy chains up and down the road, while also salting (the swiss do not like to salt) it heavily.
Driving with chains on the front of a front wheel drive on ice was a bit like having castors on the rear, a real hand full but at least I had control of directional change, just not always how much directional change. With a whole road width and 5 mph I managed.
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@clarky999, I do have studded tyres this year but not 4x4, so far I have not had any issues descending where the weight is on the front wheels regardless of conditions. I have had problems ascending and have had to fit chains.
In previous years I have found chains do dig in to hard ice, 1/4 of the weight of the car on a few small bits of metal exerts a lot of force. It took 4 weeks of continuous use in mixed snow/ice to snap a set of 3 year old 9mm chains last year. I have been in a position in previous years where I have stopped to fit chains and the handbrake wouldn't hold the car because the back wheels were stationary but the car was sliding on the ice, put chains on and away we went.
Please note none of this is likely to be relevant to the OP as @Samerberg Sue, rightly pointed out I am in a tricky location but it is only 800m from the centre of town and there is plenty of tourist accommodation on the same road.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Chris_n, many years ago my OH had to stop on the way up from Worgl and put the chains on and that was about the end of the first week in December delivering our daughter to Niederau for the season.
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Off topic slightly, those that live out in the mountains full time, what pressure do you run your snow tyres at, or put it another way do you run them a lot less than ordinary summer tyres.
I know that there are two schools of thought on this, plus at altitude there is the effect of pressure inside and out on the tyre which in effect means that you're running very high if you do not let some air out in the first place. 
So if driving up from sea level to 1400 your 3bar pressure could be > 3.5 so do you deflate to <2.5 ?
It's when I see the local lady postie driving her little Twingo van all over the place on her narrow snowies that I appreciate how well she drives!
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FAQ
