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Primaloft Jackets - too warm?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi Team,

Fantastic forum and just what I'm looking for in terms of getting opinions! Sorry to dump this on you.

I'm investing in some new ski kit. My previous stuff was bought from an outlet store years ago and it was basically what I could afford. Good stuff, but I look like a 90's boy band with a hole near my...behind.

Salomon stuff fits me really, and so I'm deciding to go down that route (yes I know for the £ I'm quoting I could go elsewhere). I want some quality kit which is going to stand up to the test of time and keep me comfortable when it gets a bit cold. I'm talking cold in Jan/Feb in France (i.e. -10) not a treck to the artic. I'm a serious skier and love bombing down the pistes, with a bit of off piste as well. I do not do backflips out of helicopters and charge through the trees.

Which brings me to the crux questions. From experience I want some primasoft goodness. The two jackets in question are as follows:

a) Speed Jacket:
http://www.salomon.com/uk/product/speed---jacket-m.html?article=374541

b) Whitemount Jacket
http://www.salomon.com/uk/product/whitemount-gtx-mf-jacket-m.html?article=373816


Jacket B is the better jacket, Goretex etc means it's going to handle a lot more. What's really getting at me is the idea I might fry in the conditions described above.
A) 100g of Silver Primaloft
B) 133g of Gold/One Primaloft.

What I would like to get your opinion on, is if that extra fake-down is going to make me fry in 'normal' conditions. Or will I still need the usual underlayers etc, it's just a bit more insultated.

THanks for your help> I'm in a pickle.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I would strongly recommend not getting a single jacket combining shell and insulation. A much better idea is a Gore-Tex shell, which can be worn with just a baselayer when it is warm, or with the addition of a primaloft or similar mid-layer for cold weather. You cannot say France in Jan-Feb will be -10, it could be anywhere from +10 down to -20, and a single jacket cannot comfortably cope with that range.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As @RobinS says go with a hard shell and layers under. I use an ME Changabang, under it may be just a merino t shirt on a warm spring day (if the shell is needed at all), in the depths of winter it will be t shirt, a thin fleece or two and maybe a soft shell or light down jacket underneath.
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I agree with @RobinS re: shell + layers vs insulated jacket. Each to their own though. If you were to go for a Salomon shell then their S-LAB X Alp Pro Jacket looks pretty good. However, if you were to go for an insulated jacket you might want to go ultrabreathable e.g. the Montane Axion Neo Alpha Jacket which combines Polartec Neoshell (shell membrane) with Polartec alpha100 (insulation).

For what it is worth until -5C I wear: 200 weight merino baselayer, Rab powerstretch fleece and Norrona Lofoten (shell not insulated). Colder than -5C I add a Norrona Alpha100 gilet either over or under my fleece.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My best purchase recently has been a TNF thermobobble jacket. Good mid layer under a Goretex shell but I was skiing on the BB in Arabba with only a smartwool base layer under it and it was perfect.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Agree with all that has been said above. Buying layers is more economic because you can wear them all year depending on what other activities you get up to. I use base layers, mid layers, down jackets (two weights), down gilets and shells lots of times per year. My old ski coat is hanging in a wardrobe and I cant imagine when id next wear it.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks guys and gals,

this is really helpful. The reasoning behind the expensive jackets was the 'right, I'm going pro and investing' mentality as I do ski enough to warrant some nice kit.

Now I know I've been looking in slightly the wrong area and am spending my day in the office researching shell layers and under layers.

rock on Snow Heads.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I agree with the others. A quality Goretex shell and layering is the way to go. Although layering is a very personal thing, I find a lot of fleeces can be really uncomfortable under shells but others don't seem to mind. I much prefer wearing a smooth insulating jacket like this RAB pertex down jacket. A shell goes over it nicely and is super comfortable, but this is for cold days only. I just wear various Merino base/mid layers if it's not too cold.

https://www.webtogs.com/en-UK/Rab-Microlight-Mens-Jacket/30772wmp.htm?colour=Twilight+Shark&sku=286912&productid=81251&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20API&gclid=CjwKEAiAo7C2BRDgqODGq5r38DsSJAAv7dTPQpRJYd65uf1QC0YeibAfhEkpzepIhkJG89qBiDLozBoC8Z_w_wcB
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
After my friend's old shell became soaked through, he asked me for recommendations for inexpensive (<£300) Goretex shells. Here is the output of my research (in addition to the two jackets I mention above):

Ski jackets:

Norrona Lofoten

http://www.srcunningham.co.uk/13768/products/norrona-mens-lofoten-gore-tex-pro-jacket---new-ink.aspx

Mountain Equipment Diamir (Medium only)

http://www.hillanddaleoutdoors.co.uk/productDetail.php?productId=3754&brand=11&gclid=CPKe24D58coCFQkRHwodLhIMrw

Scott explorair 3L jacket

http://www.backcountry.com/scott-explorair-3l-jacket-mens?CMP_SKU=SCO00B5&MER=0406&skid=SCO00B5-BKIRI-XL&CMP_ID=PLA_GOc001&mv_pc=r101&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&mr:trackingCode=D0A52C08-9B67-E511-80F3-005056944E17&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=89620501717&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:tid=pla-153195125317&mr:ploc=1014895&mr:iloc=&mr:store=&mr:filter=153195125317&gclid=CJ-CleP98coCFUFehgodLWwCZw&gclsrc=aw.ds

(with US99 shipping comes to approx. £240)

Marmot zion polartec neoshell (apparently the latest and greatest soft/hard shell waterproof tech)

http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-zion-jacket-mens?skid=MAR00M1-CTBL-S&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6cG9sYXJ0ZWMgbmVvc2hlbGw6MToxNTpwb2xhcnRlYyBuZW9zaGVsbA==

Arc'teryx Sabre
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arcteryx+sabre&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja_IO3u_LKAhVGwj4KHS7mBo8Q_AUIBygB&biw=1200&bih=602#spd=4977048856927036966

Mountaineering/climbing technical jackets (they have everything that you'll need on a ski jacket other than a snowskirt):

Rab (Polartec neoshell)
http://www.outdoors-online.uk.com/p/6661/Rab-Neo-Guide-Jacket?gclid=CIHD_4q78soCFYMkhgodsC0PyQ

Norrona Falketind
http://www.srcunningham.co.uk/13807/products/norrona-mens-falketind-gore-tex-jacket---ocean-swell.aspx

Mountain Equipment Lohtse

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mountain+equipment+lhotse&biw=1200&bih=602&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6vsLZu_LKAhUMcj4KHetuCZ8Q_AUIBigB#spd=6746872372292006498

I hope this helps...
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
chivdog wrote:
Scott explorair 3L jacket

http://www.backcountry.com/scott-explorair-3l-jacket-mens?CMP_SKU=SCO00B5&MER=0406&skid=SCO00B5-BKIRI-XL&CMP_ID=PLA_GOc001&mv_pc=r101&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&mr:trackingCode=D0A52C08-9B67-E511-80F3-005056944E17&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=89620501717&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:tid=pla-153195125317&mr:ploc=1014895&mr:iloc=&mr:store=&mr:filter=153195125317&gclid=CJ-CleP98coCFUFehgodLWwCZw&gclsrc=aw.ds

(with US99 shipping comes to approx. £240)


......... plus import duty, plus VAT, plus couriers handling charge will soon add up if you import stuff from the US (unless you get lucky).

Or you could buy from These guys for £226 (size dependant).
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rogg wrote:

Or you could buy from These guys for £226 (size dependant).


Yep, that'll do if you happen to be an xl or an s. I did my research a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find any EU stockists of this jacket for less than £300. I've not been stung yet for duty/taxes etc. importing goods from the US (touching lots of wood...)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
chivdog wrote:
rogg wrote:

Or you could buy from These guys for £226 (size dependant).


Yep, that'll do if you happen to be an xl or an s. I did my research a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find any EU stockists of this jacket for less than £300. I've not been stung yet for duty/taxes etc. importing goods from the US (touching lots of wood...)


I've had a mixed bag here in Ireland. DHL have always landed me with duties/charges, if sent via USPS no charge - similar value items. Luck of the draw, but worth knowing because duty/vat/charge could make a bargain quite expensive.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Wholeheartedly agree with the layer option. ME Changabang + Rab microlight/primaloft + very thin Base Layer & I am toasty in St Foy. It is pretty warm right now but I get the feeling that the addition of a fleece would perform all the way down to -20.
Nice position to be in selecting new kit!
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
For 20 years I skied mainly in goretex shell / midlayer / baselayer, skipping the midlayer in warm weather, maybe adding an extra one when it is really cold. Works really well. If you go down that route I'd have a look on sportspursuit - they almost always have some nice top brand shells at 50% off. I got a new hagloffs one a few months ago which is very nice but frankly there are 10 brands that are of a similar excellent standard.

All that said, for the last 5 years I have been skiing early-mid season in a Mountain Equipment primaloft insulated goretex jacket. I pretty much always wear just a base layer under it. Now it IS too warm in spring conditions but I have other options for then and I wouldn't wear it for touring (I run too hot on uphills) but it is brilliant for resort skiing most of the season. The big advantage is that you can dump heat and humidity really quickly - pull the zip down and lose the steam, pull it back up again. The thing with layers is they do trap the moisture in a bit. However breathable each layer is, it takes a while for the damp to escape.

Don't get me wrong, if I wanted one jacket to do everything (particularly if that includes some non-skiing use) it would be a goretex shell but for a pure ski jacket for Jan and Feb then I think a primaloft insulated goretex jacket is optimal.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'll provide an update to this, as I think it's interesting.

Before posting my OP, I had already ordered the Whitemount Jacket and was having second thoughts. I've obviously tried it on before sending it back.

It's worth noting that it's a great all round jacket. Waterproofing is fantastic,it's light weight and very well made. Not that we ever had any doubts.

Not that this is a good test case, but wearing it around my apartment...within a minute I feel too warm as the primaloft takes hold and bakes me. It's fantastic...but answers the point of going for a 'best of the best' all round jacket. does exactly what it's supposed to....which shows it wouldn't be great for all conditions, only specific conditions....which defeats the point.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hard Shell (Goretex 3L) allows for layering based on any condition (look for one with some vents). you can't go wrong.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Always, always layered up. Currently rocking a Norrøna Hard Shell with a Buffalo Mountin shirt underneath.

Buffalo are hands down the best value, best made, best everything kit you will ever wear...

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
. . .I use breathable softshells as my primary outerwear and add a lightweight ME Compressor Primaloft vest/gilet on the outside for when it gets silly cold/windy . . .packs down really small, really warm for its weight . . .this is only 60g/40g Primaloft Gold
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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i would just to add that goretex has let me down in the past, i am also a postman and we have goretex coats issued to us, but they seem as waterproof as a paperbag, in my opinion goretex is overhyped, expensive and very well advertised which is why its a market leader, there are just as good jackets out there from other leading brands who use their own breathable waterproof shells, as for skiing, in spring conditions its nothing but a thick windproof fleece for me, and when it gets colder i just put a lightweight jacket over it, although it may seem cold first thing in the morning you will still warm up quickly when skiing, but the most important things to wear when it is cold is hat and gloves, if you keep your head and hands warm you should be fine.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For years I used a Goretex shell with various mid- layers and base layers and got on fine.

For the past couple of years, however, I've just used a North Face Hy-Vent insulated jacket with base layer and a t-shirt underneath. Has been fine for January skiing.

Would agree with the comments re: venting
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