 Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
The difference is that laws made by UK parliamentarians at Westminster are made with the idea of benefitting the UK and its citizens.. |
not sure where to begin with that one....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Actually, what we're discussing/debating/arguing about is moot as any laws passed in the U.K. can be ruled against by the European Parliament or European Court of Justice if they so desire...and therein lies the rub.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| madlondoner wrote: |
| I do question how democratic this country is now considering our dreadful fptp electoral system, our divisive government that doesn't care for anyone who didn't vote for them and their determination to pass new laws which will rig the electoral process in their favour. |
Yes terrible how undemocratic we are when only a few years ago we were given a democratic election to decide if we wanted the fptp system, and what new laws are the current government bringing in to rig the process in their favour ?
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Are people saying that and tough measure's imposed will only damage British TO's?
Who do you think own these chalets? The TO's? Aren't most of them rented for the season?
And isn't it xenophobe? Or are we talking about anti-buddists?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| dogwatch wrote: |
| Don Keebles wrote: |
| Don't ever stand for election mate |
I've been voting for several decades but only lived for a handful of years in a constituency that ever changes hands. Around here they could pin a blue rosette on a donkey and it would get elected. In fact they pretty much did. To all intents and purposes the local Conservative party chooses my MP.
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Same but opposite here. Being in Wales, it would be a sheep of course, rather than a donkey, but anything with a red rosette will get elected.
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On the whole I've a higher opinion of the laws coming out of Brussels than the ones coming from Westminster. |
I'm not quite sure I would go that far, but TBH, the majority of the ones which actually affect people are very similar indeed to laws we had already enacted, or were in the process of doing so. |
yes, but they would OUR donkeys/sheep that are imposing laws on us that we dont want/never asked for.... and OUR MPs claiming expenses for their duck houses!
I always question why it is that "devolution/self rule" is so in fashion when its Wales or Scotland, (not sure where norn iron figures in this) but when the possiblilty of devolution from the EU comes up its treated as a form of heresy! 
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@snowornever,
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I always question why it is that "devolution/self rule" is so in fashion when its Wales or Scotland, (not sure where norn iron figures in this) but when the possiblilty of devolution from the EU comes up its treated as a form of heresy!
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Indeed - The arguments in both refereendums seem very similar. The lack of knowledge about what would happen after is very similar too.
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Can someone explain to me why it is fair, good, right that Britian have different rules of EU membership than other member states?
I can understand not wanting to participate, because you don't like the rules of engagement, fair enough. I can understand changing rules for everyone, but this way I don't understand.
Explain it to the daff American living below sea level.
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@HeidiAmsterdam, can't explain. Cameron said at the outset that he wanted to reform the EU, which could have been great (it sure as hell needs it); instead he never aimed higher than obtaining some trifling concessions to British exceptionalism, at the expense of irritating every other country.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The talk of reforming the EU was sheer hubris. Laughable, really. I wondered what he'd do when he failed to reform it. Now we know....
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| laundryman wrote: |
| @HeidiAmsterdam, can't explain. Cameron said at the outset that he wanted to reform the EU, which could have been great (it sure as hell needs it); instead he never aimed higher than obtaining some trifling concessions to British exceptionalism, at the expense of irritating every other country. |
so I didn't miss a memo then...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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and the sterling tanked on speculation of the Brexit.
should the trend continue, skiing in Europe just got more expensive - it seems that even thinking about leaving the EU makes skiing more expensive.
Perhaps the solution is to stop skiing?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| HeidiAmsterdam wrote: |
and the sterling tanked on speculation of the Brexit.
should the trend continue, skiing in Europe just got more expensive - it seems that even thinking about leaving the EU makes skiing more expensive.
Perhaps the solution is to stop thinking? |
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We didn't have a referendum on getting rid of fptp. We had a referendum on bringing in alternative vote in constituencies. It doesn't actually matter if a majority are in favour of fptp just so long as a sizeable minority are not because they are being disenfranchised under the current system. Majority vote doesn't always just decide decisions if it takes away the rights of others in a significant way.
On the EU, it is imperfect, it is bureaucratic and it is in some (though not as much as the eurosceptics claim), undemocratic. However leaving and thinking we will be in some great situation and can ignore the huge trading block that all our neighbours are part of is absurd.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Don Keebles wrote: |
| Actually, what we're discussing/debating/arguing about is moot as any laws passed in the U.K. can be ruled against by the European Parliament or European Court of Justice if they so desire...and therein lies the rub. |
And then of course, and such rulings can be ignored for years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I haven't heard the ignoring bit before.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowornever wrote: |
yes, but they would OUR donkeys/sheep that are imposing laws on us that we dont want/never asked for.... and OUR MPs claiming expenses for their duck houses!
I always question why it is that "devolution/self rule" is so in fashion when its Wales or Scotland, (not sure where norn iron figures in this) but when the possiblilty of devolution from the EU comes up its treated as a form of heresy! |
The people voted against full devolution for Scotland (after a debate just as heated as this one, if not more so), and it has never been on the agenda for Wales.
And the UK already has far more self rule from Brussels than either of them do from Westminster.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| HeidiAmsterdam wrote: |
Can someone explain to me why it is fair, good, right that Britian have different rules of EU membership than other member states?
I can understand not wanting to participate, because you don't like the rules of engagement, fair enough. I can understand changing rules for everyone, but this way I don't understand.
Explain it to the daff American living below sea level. |
The UK would far prefer the rules of membership to be changed for all states.
But in the real world, getting agreement for the UK to be a "special case" in some respects seems much more feasible than getting those changes applied for everyone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It will be interesting to see what line the EU take with the Swiss now they have effectively torn up all their agreements with the EU up in their efforts to control migration into Switzerland.
This might give us a clue how we will be treated if we decide to leave (from Swiss Info):
As Switzerland waits for the outcome of Britain’s vote on staying in the European Union to resolve its own issues with the 28-nation bloc, the Swiss press sees huge hazards in “Brexit” and David Cameron’s deal with the EU.
“In the end, the ‘other 27’ offered [Cameron] a compromise approaching the limits of feasibility,” commented the Tages-Anzeiger newspaper after the British Prime Minister struck a deal with the EU on Friday.
But, the Tages-Anzeiger pointed out, the deal “hardly amounts to the ‘fundamental reform’ of the EU that Cameron had been calling for”. What must follow is a fundamental and long overdue debate about the purpose behind Britain’s membership in the bloc. But time is running out for Cameron to make his case, the commentary pointed out, with a deep rift already having formed in his party. “This much is clear: Cameron took an enormous risk, for himself, for his country and for the rest of the EU.”
The Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) newspaper agreed that risks abound for the European Union following the deal: “With the exit of the EU’s third largest contributing member and second largest economy, its economic power would shrink by 16%”. And the EU isn’t helping itself, the NZZ pointed out, since its current lack of cooperation could swing the outcome of Britain’s vote. “Unforeseen negative headlines, like an escalation in the refugee crisis, could fuel the campaign for those wanting to leave the EU,” the paper said.
Correspondent Oliver Washington of Swiss public radio and television SRF said the deal opens the door for other EU countries to come to special arrangements with the Union.
Switzerland, though not in the EU, is waiting for the outcome of the Brexit vote to strike its own deal with the 28-member bloc over a vote last year to curb the number of EU immigrants, over which negotiations have largely stalled so far. EU expert Dieter Freiburghaus told the Blick newspaper that Cameron's deal is "a bad sign for Switzerland", having achieved very little. "If Cameron couldn't even manage to shake up the free movement of people, then Switzerland has no chance," the professor emeritus said, adding there was never really any hope that the country could implement its vote over EU immigrant quotas without seriously jeopardising the free movement agreement. "Switzerland's last hope died with the result of Cameron's negotiations."
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 23-02-16 0:16; edited 1 time in total
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They can't give in too much or they are encouraging other states to get involved in brinkmanship. Furthermore most of Europe is sick of the Tories and Ukip and their little engagement in the European parliament whilst constantly slagging off the EU. They want Britain to stay but not at any cost. We are an important member but not irreplaceable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The main thing that worries me is the expansionist policy of the EU. The EU did little to make sure that Spain, Italy and Greece were fit to join. Even less with Romania and Bulgaria. Next up is the remaining states of the former Jugoslavia and then Turkey. How many of them will want to come to Britain? Indications are that Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria may also want to join, and maybe Georgia, Moldova and some other small states around that area. Where does it stop? Should they be made to wait until their countries are up to our standard of living? I can see us being overwhelm. Also I fear what will happen if we get a majority of Muslims in the country. I am not so sure their heart is in our sort of democracy, however good or bad it is.
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Italy was a founder member!
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Freedom of movement & work could be a problem after a Brexit.
This will affect (be harder) any UK Nationals prospects of working in the EU. Chalets,Ski Instructors.etc.
Unless they have been already resident for 5yrs in an EU country.
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Btw if you believe that North African countries and Turkey are joining the EU in the next 50 years you are severely mistaken and need to stop reading the Mail or the Express.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| madlondoner wrote: |
| Btw if you believe that North African countries and Turkey are joining the EU in the next 50 years you are severely mistaken and need to stop reading the Mail or the Express. |
What makes you think Turkey won't join in the next 50 years?
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| DixieDean wrote: |
The main thing that worries me is the expansionist policy of the EU. The EU did little to make sure that Spain, Italy and Greece were fit to join.
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Italy never "joined", it was one of the three founder members. Spain and Greeces were only a few years after the UK, and over 30 years ago. Requirements have changed quite a bit since then.
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Even less with Romania and Bulgaria. Next up is the remaining states of the former Jugoslavia and then Turkey. How many of them will want to come to Britain? Indications are that Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria may also want to join, and maybe Georgia, Moldova and some other small states around that area. Where does it stop? Should they be made to wait until their countries are up to our standard of living? I can see us being overwhelm.
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I can't.
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Also I fear what will happen if we get a majority of Muslims in the country. I am not so sure their heart is in our sort of democracy, however good or bad it is. |
Not likely to happen in our lifetimes. As of 2011 census, 4.8% of the population. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-religion.html
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| madlondoner wrote: |
| Btw if you believe that North African countries and Turkey are joining the EU in the next 50 years you are severely mistaken and need to stop reading the Mail or the Express. |
If you believe it unlikely they will in that time period, then you need to come and live in the real world. It is less than 60 years since the initial formation of what later became the EU, in 1957. The chances of it not changing out of all recognition in the next 50 years are miniscule.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Daily Fail fear of Muslims strikes again. Going to a mosque equates to being a terrorist. I seem to remember they said the same thing about the Irish in the 1970s.
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It was UK that was keen for expansion and also keen to push immigration ahead of what the rest of the EU wanted.
To now suggest it was an EU plot that was against Britain's interests is a rewriting of history.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think immigration from the EU has been very positive for the UK.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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^ agree. Br-exit can only limit EU migrants.
These bring a measurable economic benefit to UK (and crucially balanced almost exactly by UK citizens going other way).
EU migrants are generally well educated and better trained than our own citizens.
Br-exit will do nothing to limit refugees, illegal or non EU citizens.
Which are arguably the types of migration we should be considering limiting ?
Anyone who frames the EU debate as being about migration hasn't thought very hard about the issues / effects.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Anyone who frames the EU debate as being about migration hasn't thought very hard about the issues / effects. |
But is that not one of the corner stones of the "OUT" camp? Secure our borders!
Which would then be immediately 'unsecured' by agreeing a Freedom of Movement agreement with the EU.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^ indeed : freedom of movement (within EU) is a reciprocal agreement.
we couldn't "seal our borders" without having direct impact on our own citizens ability to travel within Europe.
plus we are already out of schengen zone : so the UK, unlike mainland europe, simply don't have a refugee problem - one of the unique benefits of being an island nation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
^ agree. Br-exit can only limit EU migrants.
These bring a measurable economic benefit to UK (and crucially balanced almost exactly by UK citizens going other way).
EU migrants are generally well educated and better trained than our own citizens.
Br-exit will do nothing to limit refugees, illegal or non EU citizens.
Which are arguably the types of migration we should be considering limiting ?
Anyone who frames the EU debate as being about migration hasn't thought very hard about the issues / effects. |
+1
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| What makes you think Turkey won't join in the next 50 years? |
That it is clearly unacceptable to most of the existing EU nations.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I seriously hope the upcoming debates focus on more than immigration, borders and red tape. I doubt for one minute there will be any clarity but let us see discussion on all of the major benefits and disadvantages of being in/out of the EU.
All of the member countries have different political, economical, social and environmental issues that need to be balanced with membership of a unified state. If member countries have to negotiate elements of their specific membership then I personally understand this. One size does not fit all but we can all shop in the same store!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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And I am quite sure that one way or another there will still be chalet holidays for Brits.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| I think immigration from the EU has been very positive for the UK. |
I'm sure it has been positive for the UK as a whole. Positive for those competing for certain kinds of jobs, housing and services, that's not so clear and those people have votes too.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| laundryman wrote: |
| I think immigration from the EU has been very positive for the UK. |
I'm sure it has been positive for the UK as a whole. Positive for those competing for certain kinds of jobs, housing and services, that's not so clear and those people have votes too. |
^ equal number of UK citizens have gone the other way to live in Europe.
Whilst "housing, jobs and services" are genuine issues for government to address it is factually incorrect to blame EU migrants for these problems.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DixieDean wrote: |
| Also I fear what will happen if we get a majority of Muslims in the country. |
Well that's never going to happen, at least not in the sort of timescale that matters to my family. The scaremongering usually goes along the lines of blind extrapolation of recent growth trends. Complete BS.
I think we are very very long way from having a muslim PM in power!
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| madlondoner wrote: |
| Btw if you believe that North African countries and Turkey are joining the EU in the next 50 years you are severely mistaken and need to stop reading the Mail or the Express. |
What makes you think Turkey won't join in the next 50 years? |
The Netherlands is totally opposed to Turkey joining.
With Turkey's human rights record there is no chance.
However if indeed one day it was allowed to join I can envisage ONLY the European Continental part of Turkey (Istanbul) acting like a trade gateway to Asia .
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FAQ
