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Snowdomes - good, bad or just downright ugly??!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Had an early-on learn to board day at an indoor snow slope a year ago, and found it worthwhile (but on the baby slope, mainly). Then did some improvers falling over on not ideal real snow pistes abroad, came back indoors and over the summer managed main slope very cautious turns and progressed to shorter then longer linked turns: but whilst still enthusiastic, I found it pretty scary because of very 'choppy' conditions of either scraped-off ice or lumps of soft stuff. Definitely didn't feel as happy with my abilities as I had initially or in real snow. Also found it very, very painful to fall over on (just ice, fundamentally).
This year, recently had 2 days' boarding out in nice soft snow, and made loads of progress, stopped falling over (much wink ), managed to control the board even in really bumpy or deep stuff and was doing full-length, reasonable speed steep blues and reds. Mr G was very impressed, me very happy and grinning ear to ear (once extracated from latest expedition into large pile of deep stuff Smile Not too much pain; willing to push it a bit and learn from it. Felt very confident and ready to call myself some sort of basically-competent piste boarder.
So plodded back off to indoor slope again this weekend for a planned day of fun and, well, it all ended in a rather horribly-embarrassing grown woman in tears and tantrum exhibition, chucking board and equipment away and swearing that I never wanted to go near one of the damn single-planked things ever again! Seriously, it just took away every shread of confidence that I'd just built up. I don't think that my technique was any worse, but the slope conditions were just impossible for me to be able to cope with: randomly-placed scraped-off sections of pure ice with a minimal white coating of something cold interspersed with huge mounds of soft wet yuk which reached out and grabbed every edge that I tried to take anywhere near it, yet wasn't predictable enough, firm enough or spaced out enough to be able to either ride over, jump off, turn on or go around it. Frankly, I was just terrified, utterly fed up of falling over rather a lot for reasons that didn't feel were totally just related to my crap ability (OK, so they were really) and felt that I had absolutely no control or ability to decide where I wanted to go (except to do one turn, come to a stop and stand there waiting for the courage to do another one) or to practice what I needed to practice within the various paths and ice/piles layout available. Add to that the small children and ver beginner skiers which I had to try and avoid and, well, it just wasn't fun or helpful. It was also, again, incredibly painful to deposit oneself in the normal edge-catching way (lots of very jarred neck vertebrae is the main problem) - and that's with lots of padding and impact shorts.

My observation was that there were very few snowboarders of lesser ability than me on the slope, and just a couple of beginner/intermediates struggling along with private lessons - and also just falling over a lot or refusing to make turns at all. The rest were mainly on soft freestyle-type boards and definitely a lot better than I am. Even Mr G was struggling at times (on a rental board), and he's not a bad piste rider at all Confused

So, with a personal opinion that the slope conditons were just really, really bad and generally aren't going to get much better, should I either persevere through the summer and use the bad conditions to force me somehow (God-knows how) to get better at random and swift directional control and instant transitioning between ice and soft bumpy crud - pain tolerance and several written-off recovery days permitting (I'm not that yougn anymore, sadly) - whilst risking losing all desire to board and certainly any enjoyment of it, or do I stay well clear of the dratted places and only take to a board for a day or two when away otherwise ski-ing (yes, I am grey).
I really would like to be able to become a decent piste boarder, but I'm finding that my only real chances of getting the time (i.e. indoor slopes in the summer) to become better and good enough to make it worthwhile to board along with Mr G on expensive and valuable holidays are sending my self-confidence to rock bottom, and I'm not even sure that I'm developing or using the right techniques. (Is there a different tecnique for artifical indoor snow to real stuff?)

Sorry to ramble on... But basically, if you're not a super-God already, are these places just best avoided? (please don't shout too much at the idiot learner... )
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What times of day are available to you? I go to chill factor at Manchester, I've actually been first on the slope once at the breakfast club they do on a Wednesday! 7.30 start Inc a drink and Sandwich after 😀Freshly groomed and very easy to ski. However I've recently changed jobs and can only go on evenings. I've done the 21.00 to 23.00 and the first hour is horrendous! Very busy so you can't really plan a route and very chopped up with an icy strip down the middle. Not pleasant! Not going this week as I am going to saalbach on Saturday and don't want to be taken out in the chaos!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Grizzler, I was nearly 40 before trying snowboarding. Went OK for a few years although I never felt I was really competent, because I never committed fully to it. In general terms I skied most of the time but had odd days on snowboard when new powder available, or poor visibility for skiing. I had a couple of 2 hour sessions at Tamworth snowdome and found it OK, and I think it helped my technique.

After dabbling for about 15 years, I finally decided to give up boarding. Mainly to preserve my joints, which were taking too much of a hammering each time I wiped out. Falling at snowboarding is twice as damaging as skiing in my experience. Some days I felt like I'd gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson.

Conclusions? Indoor snow slope seemed fine to me, as a relative beginner. Snowboarding is a young(ish) persons game...unless you get so good when youngish that you hardly ever wipe-out as you get older. With hindsight, if I'd have committed to a week of boarding lessons in my late 30s, I think I'd have enjoyed it more and kept boarding for longer.
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Sounds as though your options are either to take lessons in a dome or wait till next holiday. No pointless going through all that agro again.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Grizzler, I have only ever skied indoors at Hemel this season but I completely sympathise; as the day progresses, the combination of relentless moguls, deep soft snow, ice patches and a sometimes hideous concentration of people can make for a very confidence-sapping experience, and more about survival than fun.

If you can get there first thing in the morning that is always the best time even at weekends for snow conditions, and good instruction will really help you get through this, probably under any conditions. It's also peak season and you should find the summer much more pleasant - at least that's what I'm telling myself!

Good luck - I have to admit to being tempted to try the snowboard myself at some point (it'll have to be soon before I get too old!) because it looks like so much fun - the only thing that worries me is that I don't bounce like I used to when I was younger, so I may eventually be coming back to you for advice! Laughing
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Sounds like it's not just all me, then Confused Thanks for the comments so far. I do want to keep boarding, and I do enjoy it, but as said, these mature bodies do not like the hammering (the joints are OK with me, fortunately, but the muscles and pre-existing soft tissue pain condition so make me wonder about my SM tendencies... Laughing I'm definitely the wrong side of 50 to be bouncing. Actually, the bouncing's OK, and the rolling - so far. It's the whoops, splat aspect - i.e. the quick edge catch - that seems to be the problem.

I don't live very near a slope - either Manchester or Leeds are possible, the former nearer, but an hour and a half++ to drive to - and I don't really fancy driving either on my own after a boarding session, so it's evenings only, Friday/weekends, sadly: the most chopped-up and ice-scraped time. To be fair, after 6pm this Saturday at CF it wasn't actually busy at all, no lift queues or many people on the slope: just horrid underfoot.

It's a real pity - all that summer time (if not great outdoors weather) to practice and not be ski-ing, chance for 'snow' fun still - 'cept that it ain't so much fun any more.

If you ever go to Chill Factore and see someone with a huge padded bum on a snowbaord, that'd be me - sod one set of impact shorts!!!

I'm not sure that lessons would help: I'm still too scared to do what needs doing! It isn't per se the learning, it's the practising that I need. Maybe trying to get Mr G to take me on about 6 more snow holidays a year (or Scotland getting a bit less windy... Right!)

Is a dry slope on a snowboard any better (thinking that I could get to Rossendale maybe?) Mr G broke his ankle falling on one once, so I'm a bit iffy: but as someone said earlier, I'm also terrifed of wiping out in the artifical stuff. Blush rolling eyes wink

Is Castleford any better than Manchester at weekends (afternoon/evening)?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@motyl, I found Hemel hard going but can't remember any icy patches as such. Snow was definitely soft and hard on the legs, but I'd only had a week of skiing before I went. Might be a different experience on a board but I found it good (if challenging) conditions for learning.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@motyl,
Quote:

I have to admit to being tempted to try the snowboard myself at some point (it'll have to be soon before I get too old!) because it looks like so much fun

On fresh snow snowboarding is fantastic! Feels like floating on air.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm in between Castleford and Manchester. Chill Factore at Manchester is more of a pain in the backside due to the speed restrictions on M62 but Castleford don't seem to do any offers so I choose Manchester as I can't justify paying full price. I've been to rossendale dry slope a few times. After the last visit a few weeks ago I've decided I won't be going back. I want to enjoy it as it's cheaper but I just didn't get on with it. Not sure if it's because it needs resurfacing or something? Just seems really patchy and unpredictable. (I'm a skier by the way)
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Grizzler, as an (ex) elderly snowboarder I sympathize but I think you're wrong about lessons not helping. Have you been taught foot steering? The Mcnab book and DVD might help too, if you've not got it already.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
@motyl, I found Hemel hard going but can't remember any icy patches as such. Snow was definitely soft and hard on the legs, but I'd only had a week of skiing before I went. Might be a different experience on a board but I found it good (if challenging) conditions for learning.


Yes, to be fair, there is usually only one area right near the top that can get icy (and not always) - but the previous Saturday night this had developed some small satellites, and the moguls over the rest of the slope were bigger and fluffier than I'd seen them before! I would definitely agree those conditions were challenging, and made it more work and less flowing and relaxing. So I can understand how the fear of unexpected edge catching can undermine confidence to the point of stopping - I can now cope with anything Hemel offers, but that definitely wasn't the case a few months ago!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
intermediate wrote:
@motyl,
Quote:

I have to admit to being tempted to try the snowboard myself at some point (it'll have to be soon before I get too old!) because it looks like so much fun

On fresh snow snowboarding is fantastic! Feels like floating on air.


That definitely sounds appealing - it also looks like less work than skiing. It's just the bit when you stop floating on air and make hard contact with the surface that worries me! Shocked Laughing
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I skiied lots at Hemel last summer, and less so during this season. Lst time I went was Sunday evening 2 weeks ago - and the conditions were about the worst I had seen.
Conditions are generally better out of season and the slope is less busy (the two are, of course, linked). If you're looking for smooth groomed snow the earlier in the day you can go the better. I had great fun 8am on Sunday mornings in August!
Also don't discount the variable quality of the hire kit - don't be afraid to take it back for swaps if you don't think you're performing as well as you usually do. I went a few weeks ago and could barely control my skiing for the first half hour, swapped the skis and immediately problem solved!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Where in Derbyshire are you? if not the far north of the county Tamworth will be easier to get to than Manchester or Castleford. The thing about Tamworth is the slope is consistent, always hardpacked to icy but the plus side of that is if you can ride that you will manage fine on anything else! Get a lesson or two at your chosen slope and they will sort you out.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
IMHO Domes are a double-edged sword. On one hand they're good for that first taster, learning the basics before you go. They're good for 'knocking the rust off' when you're confident or fancy going and mucking about for a couple of hours. If you're doing a crafty lesson or a freestyle session, no problem.

But for someone at that beginner/intermediate boundary, not under instruction, they can be a very daunting place. The conditions are often cut up badly, they're often as busy as any on-mountain choke point, you've got such a discrepancy of skills crammed into such a small area it makes people very self-conscious of their own deficiencies, and because the slope is short and so busy, you've got precious little chance to get a good momentum or rhythm going when linking turns.
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Richard_Sideways, yep, you also get people that decide to give it a go with no lessons at all. On the mountain these people are in a small minority and easy to avoid, but when I was at Hemel there seemed to be a much higher concentration of them.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Richard_Sideways wrote:
IMHO Domes are a double-edged sword. On one hand they're good for that first taster, learning the basics before you go. They're good for 'knocking the rust off' when you're confident or fancy going and mucking about for a couple of hours. If you're doing a crafty lesson or a freestyle session, no problem.

But for someone at that beginner/intermediate boundary, not under instruction, they can be a very daunting place. The conditions are often cut up badly, they're often as busy as any on-mountain choke point, you've got such a discrepancy of skills crammed into such a small area it makes people very self-conscious of their own deficiencies, and because the slope is short and so busy, you've got precious little chance to get a good momentum or rhythm going when linking turns.


That is exactly what I was really trying to say!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
[b] I think you're wrong about lessons not helping. Have you been taught foot steering? The Mcnab book and DVD might help too, if you've not got it already.


I didn't say that lessons wouldn't help. Quite the opposite, as I'm getting quite confused now about several possibilities for different steering and weighting techniques/options wich I've found. In fact I was talking with Mr G last night about getting some for both of us when we next go to real snow, if we can find a good naturalised English speaking instrutor (had some bad ski instructor experiences). But I'm very loathe to get them on an indoor slope because I'm simply too scared because of the slope conditions; that was my comment. Maybe it'd still be a worthwhile option over summer, but it's going to take some thinking about and preferably developing a little more confidence again on the real stuff (hopefully in about 3 weeks, all being well Smile ) They also seem quite expensive indoors (I'd prefer private ones) and given the short slopes you spend 1/2 the time on the Poma!

Thanks for the Mcnab reference: been looking for recommendations for DVDs etc to watch and learn from.
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intermediate wrote:
On fresh snow snowboarding is fantastic! Feels like floating on air.



Oh indeedy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

find a good naturalised English speaking instructor

Do this: ESPECIALLY look for an instructor who is a snowboarder, not a skier who treats it as filler material. Or pay a little more and go on a dedicated snowboarding camp trip.

As for domes, you've had a hefty blow to your confidence. If you've one that's close, then *personally* I'd not despair just yet. Find out when is a quiet time for them, probably after the current season has ended. Go along and just try to concentrate on the basics - Think about your posture - keep your legs nice and soft so you've got the suspension to ride out the bumps, and your weight low and centered over the middle of your board, so you've got control over your edges. Keep your head up and looking ahead and focus more on where you want to be, and less on what you want to avoid.
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Grizzler, I'm 100% a dome boarder as other parts of life dictate no snow holidays at the moment (hoping to change this next season though!) I learnt on the board in a day course at MK, and every time I've been back since I've booked a coaching session. 99% of the time it's been 1-2 of us and even when the group was larger it was still only 5 people max from memory. I would 100% recommend doing this. Coaching can never hurt, and it's cheaper than booking normal standard slope time for what is almost essentially a 2 hour private lesson. I usually book a ladies morning at MK, but they do mixed groups every other day, which is what I am doing next time I head up on 7th March. It's from 10am so you get the better snow conditions, and generally the slopes aren't too busy. It's much more relaxed than a lesson too, so you can take things at your own pace and do things you want to do without the pressure. I'd take a look on the Castleford website for times if you can get there as I'm not sure when they run, but I'm sure they do evenings and weekends as well. Don't give up!!! Very Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Clarey wrote:
.... I've booked a coaching session. 99% of the time it's been 1-2 of us and even when the group was larger it was still only 5 people max from memory. I would 100% recommend doing this. Coaching can never hurt, and it's cheaper than booking normal standard slope time for what is almost essentially a 2 hour private lesson. I usually book a ladies morning at MK, but they do mixed groups every other day, which is what I am doing next time I head up on 7th March. It's from 10am so you get the better snow conditions, and generally the slopes aren't too busy. It's much more relaxed than a lesson too, so you can take things at your own pace and do things you want to do without the pressure.


Thanks. I forgot to mention earlier that this was an option. CF Manchester (which is my nearest) do over 50s coaching sessions at, I think, noon for a couple of hours once a month on a weekday adn it's reasonably cheap. I've been meaning to go for the ski-ing coaching, and as long as I think that I can make the driving (especially if in pain and aching/sore after boarding) then it seems a good idea for boarding too and hopefully with the timing I'll just avoid the rush hour both ways. It is quite a long drive for me, and I can't get there for an early start, but I hope that once the holiday season's over I will be able to get over for these.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
You shouldn't expect to see good riders there generally. Those are really tiny beginner slopes and they are expensive, so unless you're trying to grind your ability up they're not much fun. Plus they appear badly policed and full of people who can't turn, so there's an injury risk for "super god" people to worry about. Personally I'd rather ride plastic as they feel safer - the out of control people tend not to last quite so long, perhaps.

There's no different snowboard technique for domes or plastic or real snow - it's all the same. If your technique is bad, then you can get away with it indoors or at a park. Many indoor people will ride tiny soft boards, which allow them to avoid having to learn how to turn the board in more sophisticated ways.

Without seeing you ride, it's hard to say. You could be suffering from poor equipment; a poorly tuned board; a bad set-up; the wrong type of board; lack of tuition. If your other half is able to ride he should be able to check everything other than tuition there. If not, one lesson (from a competent instructor) would at least remove the doubt about your gear and set up. Take some good one-to-one tuition and you'll be surprised how quickly those self-taught side-slippers become objects to slalom around. I would not take instruction from or with your better half, nor would I expect to learn anything from him. Nothing personal, but I don't think that ever works.

-- oh, and summer is a better time than now for this, there are fewer people there then. Call them and ask when it's quietest - that's when I'd go. The collision risk is reduced and poorly behaved lift queues are shorter in summer/ off peak.
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i used to ride park nights at tamworth and hemel at least once a week and loved it. Granted, without a park set up domes are pretty dull places, but when there's a few features out there the best places in the world Very Happy
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It comes down to technique and experience and muscle memory so you learn to control the snowboard in any conditions you might come across. I know at Chill towards the bottom often gets icy in the middle so come down the outside and stop before you hit the icy patch sounds obvious but a lot of people don't. Might be worth contacting someone like Baden at Onyx Snowboarding and doing one of his performance classes which will help with technique. The most important thing is to remember if you're not falling over every now and again you're not pushing yourself.
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Sheds. Twisted Evil
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I suspect the slope conditions last weekend were probably worse than normal (end of half term break, plus weekend traffic) - it may have been reasonably quiet while you were there, but if it was really busy beforehand throughout the day, that'll have quickly degraded the surface, and caused the poor snow you report.

I've been to CF quite a few times, and it is very variable snow! The quieter it has been during the day, the better it remains late in the evening - though if you can ever get there first thing, that is definitely the best - unmarked, immaculately groomed snow, heaven! I think I've managed two 7.30am Saturday morning starts, though it really hurt to be up that early NehNeh The snow was amazing though, and the whole place so quiet.

Should you give up or persevere over the summer? Up to you - but I think you'll find the surface will remain better during the summer, due to lower numbers of visitors. It sounds like you've been making fast and steady progress since you started too, so a couple of sessions over the summer could help you maintain that.

I'll second what the people above have said re. coaching sessions, checking the kit, avoiding the bottom middle of the slope, and phoning them up to ask about quieter periods - I've always found the staff there very helpful.

P.S. I was there late last night (Monday night), and while it was chopped up, it was mostly very pleasant soft bumps, with one side only very small ones (mostly just 'rougher' snow), and much less ice at the end of the day than I've seen before - it was also ridiculously quiet! At 10pm there was 8 of us - I was with another sH and we were amazed - 2 of us at the top of the slope about to start, 3 boarders lazily strapping in behind us, 2 people coming up the drag, and one person taking a break at the bottom. Very nice Smile
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Re. the use of snowdomes - for me I see them as a place to do the 'chores' so I can focus on having fun on a real mountain.

I did a few sessions last autumn to break in new boots, and get my head around new bindings (pin). Worked perfectly - and given my first days back on the slopes were 2 hours one afternoon in a storm and very poor visibility, followed immediately the next day by a full day touring with a guide, I was very grateful I'd sorted the boots in the dome first Smile

Yesterday I took a pair of skis I was having some confidence issues with. I knew it was all in my head, I'd just had a couple of days of bad conditions and vis the only times I'd managed to use them on the mountain, so was getting too tense on them, and couldn't get them working. Took them to the dome, did a few runs on a known, repeating surface, and after an hour had forgotten about any issues with the skis and was back to my usual indoor messing about of finding the biggest bumps and seeing how fast I could get over them Razz Next time i'm on a mountain with them I'll be fine, issue resolved, no mountain time wasted Smile

But in general - I'm not a fan of domes. Far too small, hard to get into a rhythm, too little variation in surface, and rubbish scenery!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Slightly OT but don't really want to start a thread on it, does anyone know if Hemel rent park skis as part of the standard deal?
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