 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi I am planning a ski trip for the next season ( 16/17) for a large group of 5 families ( there are 20 of us in total, half kids aged 3- ..the thing is we are on a tight budget and really don't want to spend more than £500 per person for accommodation , food and transfers ( flights, ski passes and ski school not included) .. So after a lot of searching I realised that we can not find much for this budget during half term and as we can only go during school holidays , we are now looking at Christmas / New Year
We prefer a large catered chalet as self catering for such a large group with kids would be a major hassle and I actually found a place that is within our budget but it is in Samoens.. I know it is quite low, but according to the reports it is north facing and holds snow well and also like to Flaine. So a few questions:
(1) Anyone has been to Samoens last December when the snow was bad... Did you still get to ski? Did you have to go to Flaine and if so how easy it is to get there and how long did it take?..also have you been there any other year when the snow was good?
(2) Has anyone been there with kids - what ski school did you use? Also is there any option of full day childcare with lunch? I think there is a nursery for younger kids but we have a few that are older than 6
(3) Am I crazy to even consider going to Samoens at Christmas? This year we were in Chamonix and still managed to ski everyday but it was not great - would Samoens be any better or worse?
Thank you!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Bella2015, We were in GM this past Xmas for ten days over NY too. Snow was bad everywhere however we had a great time and the conditions in Samoens were probably the best along with the very highest point at Flaine. This of course is no indication that 2016 will be different or the same.
The link via Tourmaline to Flaine bowl was closed so you had to ski to Vernant and get a bus. They laid on extra buses and it was easy peasey. We had a great day in Flaine and took the Grand Vans lift back up and skied back to Samoens.
Out of 10 days we skied 7. Could have skied all 10 but had some nice days out to Annecy and the surrounding area on the days weather was bad. Xmas day was awesome beautiful blue sky skied 4 or 5 hours and had a cracking lunch at Igloo (top of Morillon)
We drive down with kids but they've never used ski school there. The resort went to huge efforts to get the beginners areas ready and particularly at Samoens it was in good nick at 1600metres. I hear very good reports of ZigZag ski school especially for little ones and they run out of Samoens.
A guy staying in our chalet had a day at Chamonix betwwen xmas and NY and he said GM was in much better condition.
If you've not been before Samoens is a lovely town with good market and nice few shops. There's a river valley nice for walks and the waterfall up at Sixt if you fancy a potter about with family.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Bella2015, welcome to SHs.  We had a family party last Christmas, in Les Saisies. The snow was pretty grim, to be honest, as it was just about everywhere, but it was still a great time. My 5 year old grand-daughter had ski lessons. The first day it poured with rain, the snow conditions were grim, it was an entirely French group. But she coped, and made brilliant progress during the week. Her little sister - 3 - just wanted to play in the snow. There was some old, hard, stuff round the back of the apartment (at 1550m - it was just grass in front of the place, in the sun) and she was perfectly happy with buckets of that, and the warm weather meant she could play outside for much longer than would usually be possible at Christmas.
Obviously down in Samoens there could very well be no snow at village level. But as long as your accommodation is convenient to get to the lift, to get up to the snow, that's not a deal breaker. Though for littlies it is nice to have snow to play in right near your accommodation.
If people think of it as a holiday together in the mountains, with skiing not the "be all and end all" of it, you should have a great time. It's difficult to sort out the logistics of getting kids to and from ski lessons/nurseries when your accommodation is not right next to the ski slopes (especially if the kids are beginners and have to get there on foot) but it can be done!
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Certainly don't expect snow in Samoens at village level. if you have cars and are not near the ski station there is very large car park there so just drive from your chalet and get up and down in the gondola from the village. It's quite a long ride but very pleasant with stunning views of the Giffre Valley. There are many chalets in very close proximity to the gondola if you've no car.
There is a nice little toboggan run at the green beginners area at 1600m too which the little ones enjoy. GM resort staff were handing out free Chocolat Chaud and cakes for kids on several days too which was a nice touch.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@jirac18, thank you very much for your response! So how long did it take to get to Flaine in this way ( with the link closed)? And how long does it take when the lift is open ( for an average skier)? Would it be quicker to driver there? Also as you mention that you have a chalet in Samoens , have you been there during the same period in any other year? What is average Christmas skiing like?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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For an average intermediate skier - Gondola up to 1600 7 mins, one quick blue/green to six man chair 2mins, chair to tetes 7 mins, blue down to car park at Vernant 15 mins. Bus to Flaine 15 mins. From there you have a choice of lifts and the world is your lobster with some awesome views of Mont Blanc too!
It probably takes 45 mins to drive there plus the agro of parking so for me I'd ski if its possible and the ski over there is a tidy little warm up to get your legs under you.
You can easily link over to Morillon aswell although this year the bottom two thirds of the fantastic Marvel green run was closed. if you don't want to or cant link back up to Samoens just take the gondola down from Esserts 1100 to Morillon Village and hop on the bus 5 mins back to Samoens. The whole area suits itself to varied skiing and an ability to pick and choose which sector you visit on any given day depending on conditions and weather. For instance Les Carroz has plenty of tree lined runs if poor viz and can usually be easily accessed.
We have been to the GM three or four times now once over xmas and also in Feb and March. Xmas 2014 the resort declared Force Majeure and closed or rather didn't open due to no snow. We had our money refunded and didn't go. I would say this year is average for Xmas at low altitude. It's always a risk but for us as Pamw says its more of a family holiday during which we ski. We've also skied at Les Saisies at Xmas similar height and it was much the same that year. You pays your money and takes your chance!
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 8-02-16 22:05; edited 1 time in total
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Samoens is a pretty village and I can imagine it would be a nice place to spend Christmas as long as you don't mind the fact that you cannot ski back to it. I think the village is at 800m and the ski area starts at 1600.
We have been to the Grand Massif a few times later in the season so I cannot comment on the conditions at Christmas. However if you are staying in Samoens I would not plan to drive to Flaine as it is probably a journey of around 40 minutes. If you are reasonably good skiiers you can easily ski over to Flaine from the top of the Samoens ski area. However it does take a bit of time to get there and back so if you have kids in ski school, it can feel that by the time you've skied to Flaine and done a few runs it is time to head back.
Flaine and Samoens are the most snow sure areas of the GM. If the snow conditions are favourable the runs in Morillon and Les Carroz are beautiful.
If you are looking to save money you could also consider going to Samoens at Easter.
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| Quote: |
I would say this year is average for Xmas at low altitude.
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I would say it was much worse than average, at any rate at the altitude of Les Saisies (the village is at 1650, so much higher than Les Samoens, with skiing at a similar altitude). Last year was also very poor, but I've been there every Christmas since 2002 and Christmas 2014 and 2015 was a lot worse than average!
I think with small kids, especially non skiers or those going into ski school for the first time, you need to think hard about proximity of the places where they will play/sledge/have ski lessons to your accommodation. If the weather is nasty their tolerance of being outside can be quite low. And if you're up a mountain it can be a long trog back to the chalet, or taking shelter in restaurants (a very expensive option).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@jirac18, It may be worth clarifying that the scenario you have given for Flaine applies if there is not enough snowcover to ski all the way to Flaine. As far as I'm aware if the runs to Flaine are open there is no bus option from Vernant.
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| jirac18 wrote: |
@Bella2015, The link via Tourmaline to Flaine bowl was closed so you had to ski to Vernant and get a bus. They laid on extra buses and it was easy peasey. We had a great day in Flaine and took the Grand Vans lift back up and skied back to Samoens.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Bella2015, Go at Easter, its much quieter and much less expensive than xmas/new year.
We have been going to les carroz at xmas / new year for nearly the last 20 years, (we go because we have our own place and its much better than damp and wet which is what its like at that time of year where we live) and on average 1 in 5 has not been that good at that time of year. Last 2 years have not been good at all, and only snowmaking which is now really extensive has "saved" the day, even then it was pretty dire compared to nomal conditions. New year is also very very busy.
Easter is much more reliable, more so if its early.
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You know it makes sense.
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Samoens is way too low for a prebooked Xmas vacation.
Santa dislikes a green ski resort.
Global warming is melting the European Alps.
Head as high as possible.
Go to Val Thorens, Tignes, Les Arcs or La Plagne.
They will all have something within-budget.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Bella2015, the crèche is in town and is very good. ESF has an arrangement with them to take children from lessons at 1600 back down the gondola to the crèche. This needs to be arranged with ESF before your trip. Similarly, you'll need to email the crèche (haute garderie) to book before you go.
We've been to the GM for the last two Christmas/New Year holiday and they have done wonders with very little snow. We have also been to Oz a couple of times for Christmas and, although I really like Oz, Samoens beginner area is so much better and I think that there are better non snow options available in Samoens.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rachelharrisonsmith, thank you. Very useful advice. Was skiinng conditions better in Oz , would you say?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was in Morillon/Samoens not this Xmas but the one one before (the one without snow) yes it wasn't ideal but the guys on the mountain did everything to make sure some skiing was had, and to be fair we went out on the slopes everyday. I would personally recommend the grand massif as the villages etc are very pleasant, Xmas eve in Samoens is great and the atmosphere esp for little ones is fab. Don't hesitate.....with that many people in your group you will have a fantastic Xmas away from the tv and the sprouts 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Colinski, thanks , when you say some skiing was it enough to ski all day? We have some very keen skiers in our group and they would kill me if the can't ski  ..oh I wish I never volunteered to organise this!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ok to be fair I am actually one of those very keen skiers myself 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Bella2015, Xmas before last was unusually poor (although not unknown). This year was better. Xmas is really early season.
But if you want a chalet, you're almost certainly heading to France and there not everywhere is super high.
Also, high <great>1,600m.
If you want guaranteed snow and skiing, book late and book later in the season. Going at Xmas means a skiing holiday not a skiing holiday.
Oh, and taking on responsibility for a group is a nightmare.
The only way to do it is, "I'm skiing here, on these dates, anyone want to join me, you are welcome" and ignore any requests for assistance. Especially on booking/paying for things.
Oh and make it crystal clear that anything that's done for anyone else is completely on their own recognisance. No complaints to be tolerated. At all. About anything.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Bella2015, I ski in St Martin de Belleville a lot. It would definitely be a better bet for snow and access to skiing than Samoens (We have also skied in the Grand Massif, based in Les Carroz for a couple of seasons when we rented a place). St M is at 1400m and this year, even though the run into the village wasn't open Christmas week, there was skiing down to the top of the gondola, and above that access to Les Menuires, VT and Meribel was all skiable (and in pretty good nick all things being considered).
St M is a very pretty village. The real issue would be what you could get on your budget and for those numbers that is a catered chalet. There are a few owner operators there-but I'd say they cater for the middle market and above, and I would guess those with loyal customers may be booked up even now for Christmas week. Take a look at the St Martin website for links.
Have you thought about using a specialist chalet agent for your search such as www.chaletfinder.co.uk/core/search.php?accomm… Just did a random search for a chalet anywhere that sleeps 20 and a few interesting options came up!
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@Perty, thanks that is really helpful. I will look into that , I actually have an option there but a bit above budget
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Yes it was enough to keep us busy all day, that and the fact the weather so nice (or wrong depending on how you look at it) it was lovely to ski all day in the sunshine
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Bella2015, when the snow is poor, I think the Samoens has more options. Both runs back to Oz became very busy and sketchy and one was only open some of the time. Having said that, it was possible to come down from higher slopes by gondola. Once in the main skiing area, there is lots of variety and mileage, but I know the GM better, so in my biased opinion, I wouldn't say that the skiing was better in Oz. For me, the main difference is the far superior beginners area at Samoens. It's big and it is not at the end of a run, so there are far fewer skiers coming through at high speed, which was a concern when my children were small.
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