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Snow Socks vs Snow Chains

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi guys,

So I posted a separate thread on driving to Meribel in March, but I wanted to focus in on anyone's feedback about whether Snow Socks will do the job (with summer/normal UK tyres) when approaching the windier roads up in to Meribel?

I'm planning on driving down in an MX5.

Some may think that's nut's but from all I've gathered, it's motorway driving to within 10 miles or so of Meribel (which works for me, so we're good there), but has anyone had any experience of using Snow Socks rather than Snow Chains and if so how were they? How did they perform? Did they do the job? How were the conditions when you had to use them? Did you have to keep taking them off? Were they easy to fit etc.?

All feedback welcome!

Thanks guys
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A lot of people will tell you socks are rubbish, but I've driven behind some cars with socks who have done fine, in difficult conditions. I spend many weeks in the alps every winter and you do see cars with socks, though you see far, far, more with conventional chains. I did, however, see I a lot of ripped and discarded socks after the famours "snowmageddon" event last Christmas/New Year in the French Alps (also a lot of discarded vehicles, many of them BMWs).

Like chains, socks do themselves no good driving on tarmac, but for short distances and if you keep speed really low, probably OK.

Chains are definitely far superior and only difficult to fit if you've never bothered to try till you're in the dark in a blizzard. Twisted Evil I'm an old lady and I can fit my chains in a couple of minutes.

However, the snow socks that you stop and fit, as soon as you begin to lose traction, are far better than the chains which stay in the boot till it's too late, because you're scared of them.

I can't personally see the point, unless you have a car to which it is impossible to fit standard chains.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Raceplate wrote:
@IamDanKeeley, And yes, I have plenty of experience. 2 seasons as a driver in Meribel plus numerous private trips. Snowsocks are not ideal for a full season because they'll probably wear out but for a short trip as a punter they are way less hassle.

I should have added that for work I always had to use chains but on my own car I've always used socks. Sums it up really.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 4-02-16 18:25; edited 1 time in total
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We're off on Sunday with snow socks (and winter tyres to be fair). I've not used them yet, but I did a fair amount of research and they seemed a perfectly acceptable alternative to chains for someone that drives in snow once a year at most. No point repeating the pros and cons above as they are spot on.

The thing that sold it to me were the test videos, of which there are a lot on Youtube, so just have a watch of those if you need comforting.

@pam w, my justification was I'd already paid out £350 on winter tyres and snow socks were a quarter of the price of chains for my silly 18 inch wheels.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We run a landrover and an MX5. We have a romantic notion of driving down to the alps in the MX5, but I have to say whilst it is a fun car to drive it is the worst car I have ever driven, on a frosty road never mind snow and ice, so good luck with that. I think you also run a grounding risk, if there is any frozen ruts left by the ploughs, years ago I pulled the handbrake cable of an XR2 on frozen snow, but enough of my grumpy driving experience.
On the socks issue, I think they do work well, and have seen many folk using them successfully, but you need to handle with care and make sure the driven wheels are not allowed to spin or it is curtains for them. So you need a spotter if the car is in anyway trapped in the snow. I arrived outside our apartment at New Year to witness a Spanish BWM driver happily shedding his by over reving the car and spinning the wheels in a vain attempt to get off just a small amount of snow and ice, when he would have been far better enlist a couple of bystanders to give him a bit of a push.
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pam w wrote:
A lot of people will tell you socks are rubbish

I've never met anyone who's actually used snowsocks who says they're rubbish.

I do, however, know exactly what happens when a chain splits on tarmac compared to a snowsock wearing through and I know which I'd prefer to fail if it was my own vehicle. (Clue: split chains destroy paintwork, worn socks don't wink )
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
In France I believe some of the mountain resorts state that you must use snowchains whilst for general driving snow socks are fine. I will need clarification on that but there are resorts that stipulate snow chains, hence why I have both in my car but where we live on the edge of the Alps, everyone we see use chains.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I also think my hubbie had snow socks originally as he has a nice car and didn't want to wreck his alloys with chains. However NorAuto here in France (Halfords equivalent) do a neat set of snowchains which steer clear of alloys, so he bought a pair. Cost a small fortune and not needed them yet but have a good write up. Sorry not sure on the make.
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emmaski wrote:
In France I believe some of the mountain resorts state that you must use snowchains whilst for general driving snow socks are fine. I will need clarification on that but there are resorts that stipulate snow chains, hence why I have both in my car but where we live on the edge of the Alps, everyone we see use chains.

Snowsocks (or more specifically the brand, Autosocks) were made legal across France in 2008 IIRC. I know one thing though, I've never seen a gendarme checking what brand your snowsocks are in the middle of a blizzard! wink
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Ski lots wrote:
We run a landrover and an MX5. We have a romantic notion of driving down to the alps in the MX5, but I have to say whilst it is a fun car to drive it is the worst car I have ever driven, on a frosty road never mind snow and ice, so good luck with that.


While the MX5 is a fantastic drive, they tend to be rear wheel drive which isn't ideal for driving in the snow.
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I tried snow socks on a car (RS6) once as there were clearance issues, i found it one of the most unnerving experiences ever, as several times the socks came off.

The reason why i say unnerving is because they're quite quiet so when coming down as you approached a corner i wasnt certain if they were still on or not.

Eventually bought a set of chains, i had to jack the car up to get them on and off but that was worth it as i knew they were on as the clunk, clunk, clunk was very reassuring..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If 'gendarmes' are out 'cos of heavy snow fall they will not let you up the mountain with snow socks. I would buy a cheap set of chains just in case. You can get these at any supermarket for 30-40euro's. Personally i only use chains in combo with winter tyres.
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@PP, Auto Socks are certified as legal in france

Q12 Are AutoSock approved for use in the Alps, where "snow chains" are compulsory?
AutoSock have been approved since 2010 for use in France as an alternative to metal snow chains where the B26 snow chain signs require snow chains to be carried. Visitors to France will need to download a sticker to fix to the AutoSock storage bag, and are also advised to print out this document and take it with them; it includes AutoSock's press release.
AutoSock can also legally be used when snowchains must be carried or fitted in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovenia.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@holidayloverxx, read attentively the whole FAQ Smile
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@mooney058, which one in particular? That's the only one I can see that relates to legality

I'd still like to hear back from @mooney058 on what he thinks I've missed - I have auto socks as I can't use chains on my car


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 5-02-16 15:28; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
PP wrote:
If 'gendarmes' are out 'cos of heavy snow fall they will not let you up the mountain with snow socks.

Got any evidence for that statement? I've never seen a gendarme in my area refuse to let someone up the hill with snow socks.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have the michelin synthetic snow chains, which would at least be more sympathetic to paint if they snap, and aren't difficult to fit as they stretch.

No idea what they're like to drive in though as I've never needed them!
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No written evidence just personal observation, firstly on way up to Les Arc and then on the road between Chamonix and Argentiere. Police would not let people with socks through and they were turned back. Now admittedly the Les Arc 'incident' took place in 2009 i think, but the Chamonix/Argentiere was 2011. I suppose just bad luck for the folks who were turned back. i am sure if they were aware of the change in law they could have argued the toss. Personally i can get my chains on the wheels in no time (in the first few years of driving to the alps i used all season tyres so chains on chains off very frequently) at all so never saw need for the socks.
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oh and over 16 years of driving to the alps i have 'lost' my chains on 3 occasions never suffering any paint/wheel issues.
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Raceplate wrote:
pam w wrote:
A lot of people will tell you socks are rubbish

I've never met anyone who's actually used snowsocks who says they're rubbish.


Well : I have used snow socks and I think they are rubbish.
Mainly because they are not very durable - most snow socks will wear out after just 50km.
Also in my experience snow socks can also be trickier to fit and give less grip on ice.

Certainly snow socks are "ok" to get you of trouble in an emergency in one off situation.
But if it is a head to head comparison then proper snow chains win on every metric.
Once you know how to fit them properly then chains are quicker / easier to put on and off.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 4-02-16 22:21; edited 1 time in total
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@Raceplate, I suppose its similar to flying with ABS airbag. Its always been legal and yet over the years a number of people including myself have been asked to discharge the cartridge before boarding, as documented on this forum.
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Haggis_Trap wrote:
Raceplate wrote:
pam w wrote:
A lot of people will tell you socks are rubbish

I've never met anyone who's actually used snowsocks who says they're rubbish.


Well : I have used snow socks and I think they are rubbish.
Well: I've never met you so my argument's still accurate wink

Haggis_Trap wrote:
Mainly because they are not very durable - most snow socks will wear out after just 50km.
TBF, I've already made this point. They're no good for season use but for a punter who needs to get up the valley on one Saturday and down it the next, they're a hassle-free option.

Haggis_Trap wrote:
Also in my experience snow socks can also be trickier to fit and give less grip on ice.
Not sure about the ice bit but I definitely don't think they're trickier to fit.

Haggis_Trap wrote:
Certainly snow socks are "ok" to get you of trouble in an emergency in one off situation.
But if it is a head to head comparison then proper snow chains win on every metric.
Once you know how to fit them properly then chains are quicker / easier to put on and off.
Sorry, really can't agree with this. Snow socks are much easier to fit than chains.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
PP wrote:
@Raceplate, I suppose its similar to flying with ABS airbag. Its always been legal and yet over the years a number of people including myself have been asked to discharge the cartridge before boarding, as documented on this forum.

There was definitely a lot of confusion/misinformation about the legality of Autosocks/snowsocks etc. when they first came out. I was driving with them in France around 2010 and was nervous about the Gendarmes stopping me but I think that's history now. The landscape's changed and I really wouldn't expect anyone to have a problem with the Gendarmes for using some version of a snow sock in 2016.
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@Raceplate, funny how your main concern is by being pulled by the Gendarmes, not your safety (and those arround you) .... My concern are idiots on summer tyres withiut winter driving experience thinking "ahhh, it will be all right, just last 10-20 miles to go ..."
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Snowsocks are like helmets - always good for an argument. wink I can't imagine many people could fit snowsocks quicker than I can fit my chains. When I did my annual practice, outside my house in Hampshire, it took 5 minutes from start (boot closed, chains away in their bag) to having both on properly. But would have stopped, if it had been for real, after a short drive, to tighten them up a bit more (in theory they are self-tensioning...... but in practice you need them really tight).

But then I'd never driveup snowy roads in a rear wheel drive car.......
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mooney058 wrote:
@Raceplate, funny how your main concern is by being pulled by the Gendarmes, not your safety (and those arround you) .... My concern are idiots on summer tyres withiut winter driving experience thinking "ahhh, it will be all right, just last 10-20 miles to go ..."

You've got the wrong end of the stick. I was addressing PP' s comment that you would get stopped if using snowsocks. I'm perfectly satisfied that snowsocks are as safe in winter weather as chains because I've used both extensively. The issue c2010 was that if ill-informed Gendarmes refused you access up the hill because they didn't know they had just been made legal, it left you stranded.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My understanding is that not all snowsocks are equal. Some are accepted by the gendarmes, some not - in theory, at any rate.
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@IamDanKeeley, are you able to fit either type onto your mandatory? Or are you forced to use a particular type for clearance reasons?

I've used the same cheap (french supermarket) chains for 10yrs so there's no particular problem with what you get from that source I feel.

Never had a problem putting them on at a couple of minutes a wheel but reinforce what @pam w, says, run a little and make sure they are tightened again before continuing.

Has your mazda got an lsd fitted?

Question for the snowsock advocates, what is the performance like going downhill on snow?

If it was my car that was rear wheel drive I'd definitely opt for the chains as I think they'd be safer descending when fitted to the driving wheels.
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You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
My understanding is that not all snowsocks are equal. Some are accepted by the gendarmes, some not - in theory, at any rate.
I believe I made this point at 18:34? AFAIK only Autosock are officially approved but I've never seen a Gendarme checking what brand of snow sock you've got on your wheels. If it's p!ssing down with snow and your car is moving uphill under control, they're happy IME.
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ski3 wrote:
@IamDanKeeley, If it was my car that was rear wheel drive I'd definitely opt for the chains as I think they'd be safer descending when fitted to the driving wheels.
You should never have socks or chains only fitted to the rear wheels on a rear wheel drive car.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm intrigued @Raceplate, is there a technical reason for not just covering the rear wheel driving wheels?

I stand to be corrected but I've never seen any rear wheel drive car using traction devices on all four wheels in snow conditions in any of my visits to the French, Swiss or Italian ski villages.
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@ski3, because you steer with the front wheels, so it's good to have traction on them!
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ski3 wrote:
I'm intrigued @Raceplate, is there a technical reason for not just covering the rear wheel driving wheels?

I stand to be corrected but I've never seen any rear wheel drive car using traction devices on all four wheels in snow conditions in any of my visits to the French, Swiss or Italian ski villages.

TBF, I probably should have added "with summer tyres on the front" which is the vehicle layout that the OP is considering.

In Switzerland, you have to have winter tyres as an insurance requirement and you'd be ok with just chains on the rear driving wheels and winter tyres on the front. Not sure what the law is in Italy. France is not mandatory but a rear wheel drive car isn't going anywhere in the Alps without winter tyres so I suspect that all the cars you've seen with just chains on the rear have also got winter tyres on the front.

Snowsocks are heavily aimed at the 'occasional use' demographic so I think there's an implied assumption that people will be using them in conjunction with summer tyres. In that situation, you must have them on both axles on a rear wheel drive car or you'll lose both steering and braking control going downhill and the car will massively understeer.

The risk of oversteer on a front wheel drive car on summer tyres with socks/chains on the front axle only is much less and much easier to control.
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@Raceplate, I thought that the law demanded chains (socks) be fixed to the driven wheels. On a descent, the engine should be used to control the speed more than the brakes.

I used chains on the rear driven wheels of my old 60s bay-window camper a couple of times with summer tyres on the front and it wasn't a problem. Mostly engine braking and then turn in at a slow speed. I get what you're saying about understeer but I didn't find it a problem and my vehicle was rear-engined with probably a much more rearward weight distribution than an MX-5.
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Haggis_Trap wrote:
Raceplate wrote:
pam w wrote:
A lot of people will tell you socks are rubbish

I've never met anyone who's actually used snowsocks who says they're rubbish.


Well : I have used snow socks and I think they are rubbish.
Mainly because they are not very durable - most snow socks will wear out after just 50km.
Also in my experience snow socks can also be trickier to fit and give less grip on ice.

Certainly snow socks are "ok" to get you of trouble in an emergency in one off situation.
But if it is a head to head comparison then proper snow chains win on every metric.
Once you know how to fit them properly then chains are quicker / easier to put on and off.


Ditto.

that said you have snow tyres already so you'll only need them in an emergency. I don't see any reason why you wont be fine.

Edit...just read that you have summer tyres.

I've used them a few times and I'd rather cut my left nut off than drive an MX5 in snow with just socks as back up.
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Snow socks are dire to fit. What's more, lets be realistic certainly for us here in France we are more likely to need them going too and from work and are in work gear,not casual stuff which makes a huge difference as far as getting mucky is concerned. It took ages to fit them when we tried once so that i why we bought some clip on chain ones which are brilliant.
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Quote:

You should never have socks or chains only fitted to the rear wheels on a rear wheel drive car.



Not sure that's accurate, RWD BMW320 manual states "The use of narrow-link BMW snowchains on winter tires is approved only in pairs and only on the rear wheels" even the 4WD X3 should only have snowchains fitted to the rear wheels.
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The Austrian and German equivalent of the AA tested snowsocks and said they were "mangelhaft"

http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=mangelhaft&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on

They said the snowsocks didn't last long and wore out very quiclky.
https://www.test.de/Schneeketten-Spuren-im-Schnee-1214983-1214628/
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Timc wrote:
Quote:

You should never have socks or chains only fitted to the rear wheels on a rear wheel drive car.

Not sure that's accurate, RWD BMW320 manual states "The use of narrow-link BMW snowchains on winter tires is approved only in pairs and only on the rear wheels" even the 4WD X3 should only have snowchains fitted to the rear wheels.

Did you read my follow-up post? We're talking about a rear wheel drive car with four summer tyres on it. IMO it is much safer to fit chains/socks to all four wheels in that scenario rather than just the rear wheels.

The BMW manual says that for chains because there will be steering/suspension/brake clearance issues with the front wheels which means you can't fit anything that goes around the back of the wheel, which a chain does. It's not because it's safer to only have chains on the rear wheels. That's one of the benefits of socks - they don't go round the back so you can put them on all four wheels. It's also why there are some specialist clip on chains that don't go around the back - they are attempting to address this gap in the market.

It's always better to have chains or socks on all the wheels rather than just two if possible, in the same way that it's better to have winter tyres on all four wheels rather than just the driven ones.
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I think the judgment of the car is a bit off beam in this thread and people are generally confusing image with the reality. MX5 is probably one of the best balanced vehicles out there amongst 2 wheel drives and should not give any inherent problems in a little adaption to do what the original poster wants.

In reality you're only talking about moving it around at an entirely sensible pace to mitigate conditions in possibly a small part of his journey. Chains on the driven wheels should accomplish that when used with due care. It doesn't really get into handling characteristics at the speeds you'd need to get in \ out the snowed area.

I've looked at a couple parked near me and they even have more ground clearance than my VW Touran that we use chains on, so no real issues there either.
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