ESF Instructors with classes

A snowHead

Just finished a week in LGB and the worst part of the week was the ignorance of the ESF instructors.

They get off at the top of a lift, don't move away and get their pupils together to brief them while everyone else has to get round them.

On the slopes, they are doing broad S's, so broad that their trail covers all the way over the piste. Why not have a little consideration for others and only use 2/3rds of the piste so others can get past if they wish?

Don't get me started on the bunch that are without students so out for a ski on their own, not considering anyone else on the slopes.

I was glad when lunchtime arrived, I knew that I could ski without the ignorance of said instructors.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@GaryCantley, Too late now by the sounds of it, but a word with the ESF office, as opposed to here, would be my suggestion. There is no reason for instructors to do this, yes, with groups (particularly with kids) you have to make quite wide turns otherwise they start cutting corners and it descends into chaos, but skiing in such a way as to block the piste for everyone else is not good practise and this should be flagged up to the office of whichever ski school's instructor (ESF or otherwise) happens to be doing it. They may listen, or may not, but if enough people do make a point of complaining the message may get across to the few who think it is acceptable.

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Point taken. I'll bear that in mind should it happen again.

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You get a bit of that everywhere, though the worst culprits over this way (3V) are the school teachers who are allowed to be in charge of improbably large groups of kids on the slopes and appear to have had no training specific to the environment (and tick all the complaints boxes above)...

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I think it is the European way, in Andorra, the Spanish always stop in the middle of the entrance to a lift to wait for their friends.

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Most people have cameras on their phones these days. Just take some pics / videos and trot down to the local Gendarmerie, and see if you can get them thrown off the mountain and threatened with imprisonment, as these seems to be recognised m.o. for dealing with ski / mtb instructors who do not seem to adhere to accepted local standards. wink

After all it is free

Fuming this morning, skiing down a blue run in Tignes. Came across a small French child no more than 5 years old, skis off (apparently came out of the front bindings) in the middle of the piste and crying its eyes out with no one anywhere near it. We put it back on its skis and skied it down to young female ESF instructor some 150+m down the slope. Instructor making no attempt to come back up the gentle slope. What happened to: observation; customer care; class management; child protection ...? Too busy practicing for the Euro test one assumes, which clearly did not equip her to get her sorry mass back up the slope to assist her distressed client.

The sweetest thing I ever saw on a ski slope was a wee boy, still on his feet but refusing to obey the instructor, yelling at him from further down, to ski down. He was with an even littler girl who had fallen with her skis in a hopeless tangle. My companion, a tall man, picked her up by the armpits and just dangled till her skis came right. She didn't seem distressed, but was helpless. As she was put down ready to ski off the lad, who was no more than 6, said "Merci Monsieur", very self possessed and polite. I like to think the girl was his little sister. The instructor also thanked us as we skied past.

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@pam_w, I have to say the worst thing I ever saw was in your neck of the woods, in Les Saisies about 8 years ago. We were picnicking at the side of the piste when an ESF instructor some distance away shook a boy in his class, about 11-13 years old, by the shoulders then slapped him across the face whilst shouting at him. We had to confirm with each other that we had seen the same thing, we were so astonished.

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3v.. le Granges yesterday...large group of race lesson...easily spotted by the leg protection, gear etc,.... parked on side of piste, as we skied by each student was sent off at intervals...FLAT OUT... about 3pm, so piste littered with people quietly starting to make their way home.. including my not so confident wife.... each student weaved their way through the bottle neck of le granges before the long flat sections....jumping the powder fluff mogulls and zigg zagging their way...to be followed at the end by the instructors...DOING THE SAME...what would happen IF they had connected with anothe slower skier !. I could not believe it...

@Ski lots, Shocked

That's terrible. Did you report him? I do, of course, see loads of ESF groups around the slopes and have to say that they generally look pretty happy. We generally use the local ESI.

I was told off by an instructor in La Plagne, years ago for picking up a weeping tot beside a deserted draglift in bad weather and helping her down to the liftie at the bottom, on the basis that he'd have a radio. Should have left her where she was, apparently.

You know it makes sense.

@pam_w - no we did not report him, we were only on town one day. Having said that I felt bad about it later for not doing something and still do when it springs to mind. I think the young boy in question, was being awkward or at least refusing to make progress and the instructor had had to walk back up to him (ironic given my other post about yesterday's instructor). I would have thought a sharp word should have been the harshest sanction, certainly no possible justification for what happened.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@noisey, Do you not understand rolling eyes

:-

1. zey are superior beings

2. zey own ze mountain

Toofy Grin

A snowHead

@GaryCantley, There is a reason for big S ski snakes, they way kids brains work. They take the quickest line to their instructor so the turns are designed to keep them in control. The problem is the size of the class allocated to the instructor from the school.

A snowHead

Problem is each ESF school has so many instructors they seem to just take on anyone and I think that is why individual instructors are better. ESF are also awful at replying to emails, and also don't come across with the personal level that you get from a good private school. You are made to feel more like a number. Facebook reviews for ESF are very very mixed amd has been reviews about children being brought to tears by instructors that quite frankly maybe should be teaching.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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@GaryCantley, OP, don't get me wrong but:

with regards to using the whole width of pistes for turns; I believe there are lots of people out there willing to learn to ski and it can be a bit scary (especially for adults) the first few weeks with skis or board. That was me personally when I first started skiing.

(Un)fortunately we have to share the mountains with everyone else and in the end it might work out in our(my) favour as one can develop skills on short/fast turns, quick stops, etc. The risks are always there.

When I go skiing I always try to focus on enjoying and not getting stressed out with queues, other people, etc. After all it is a holiday doing something which is great for mind with breathtaking views (for me at least).

My OH used to stop and wait for people to ski past so she could start skiing down the slope. I told her: "You will never have the mountains for yourself. Just believe that people behind you will swerve or try to avoid hitting you." This is a risk we cannot control and have to live with it (this season she got her skis clipped by a boarder, both fell down).

It is poor though that instructors leave kids on their own, etc as reported by others in this thread.

Having said all that my personal experience is that Italian instructors are much, much better than French. But again it is just me a poor, inexperienced 7-week only "hoping to be a skier" trying every time to improve and above all make the most of the mountains.

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There are so many ESF schools. They are not all the same (depends on the top management) and obviously not all instructors within an individual school are the same. I have had very good ESF instructions in small groups at exceptionally low cost, in cross country skiing. I also had an off piste private lesson with an arrogant twit who, having impressed me with his dazzlingly good English then tried to impress me with his ability to ski the half pipe of a very steep draglift after heavy snowfall. rolling eyes

Way out of my comfort zone - I had told him I was an off piste beginner.

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While I sometimes get annoyed by the long 'S' I usually catch myself and remember that I was one of those learners once and NEEDED the whole width of the piste to make a turn! Usually it's only a problem on the narrower sections so by the time you've taken a deep breath and actually looked up at the mountains while you pootle behind them you're on to wider piste and able to get by them easilly.

I did though enjoy my last experience with one of the devils in red coats who having barged his way through the lift queue (something I wouldn't have minded had it been to catch up with his class but in this instance was just to catch up with another instructor to have a natter on the lift) promptly lost his ski getting on the chair. I may have clicked my skis together and chuckled as I got off and skied past him hobbiling about on one ski...

After all it is free

These threads always make me a bit sad. The local ESF instructors here are such lovely people - they are really nice to children (lots of heart and humour when dealing with my little aspie nephew this Christmas, hugging and gently rocking him from mini meltdown to laughter). A couple of them are also firefighters and they put on a brilliant free zipwire for the kids in the village during the summer and were just so kind with them. It's a small school with people who've grown up together in the village so I know it's a different vibe from many other ESF schools but it always makes me wince a bit when there are threads about how mean "the ESF" are. Not doubting the veracity of people's experiences of course, just don't like to see them tarred with the same brush.

On a different note, I do know a male ESF instructor in Les Saisies and we were making a joke about him leaving his kids flailing on the pistes (never actually seen him teach a lesson and it was it a joke relating to something else altogether). He was laughing because he has a sense of humour (!) but did also say on a serious note that he tries to avoid physical contact when he's teaching kids and won't pick them up unless absolutely necessary, in the way that many teachers and sports coaches do these days I suppose.

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My 5 year old granddaughter did a beginners course with the local ESI at Christmas. One of the criteria for gaining the badge at the end of the week was being able to get up themselves after a fall. They do learn - and often much better than with parents. The daftest thing I heard was a mother (British and an incompetent skier) shouting crossly at her offspring "I TOLD you not to fall over!".

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Something funny I saw involved a group of French kids (must have been age 5 ish) during the Easter holidays in Crest Voland. The place was totally deserted except for this little group. The parents were standing at the bottom of a long and steepish (when you're mini) button lift, watching with camera phones as the ESF instructor loaded their kids onto the lift one by one. Halfway up, one of them fell off the button and just sat there right in the middle of the track. The parents and instructor were calling to the kid to shuffle to the side and stand up but the kid just sat there looking about at the view and so the next kid bumped straight into them, sat down, and also took no notice of the calls to shuffle to the side. The instructor of course stopped loading kids on but it was too late for two others who were already underway. By the time the third kid did exactly the same, and you could see where the fourth one was heading, the parents were roaring with laughter as the instructor (very impressively given he was on skis) pegged it up the hill to get them. One of those 'you had to be there at the time' anecdotes but it was really funny as they were clearly in no distress whatsoever.

You know it makes sense.

I saw what looked like 2 entire school classes, aged about 6 - 7 having their first go at cross country skiing, on Thursday. They all got into the tracks, one right behind the other. There sere some competent -looking teachers and a couple of instructors with them. It's a gentle gradient down but it's impossible to stop in those tracks without lifting one ski out into a snowplough, which they clearly couldn't do. Or jabbing desperately with your poles (a technique I've used more than once Embarassed

). Inevitably they kept sliding into each other and falling in little heaps. They didn't seem to mind. To stand up, ln a gradient, they needed to get out of the tracks and put skis across the slope. Some tried grabbing the backpack of the child in front - not a success. teachers, instructors and some bystanders, including me, helped some their feet so they could slide very gently into the next heap. When they came to a slightly steeper section they had to snowplough, out of the tracks. Instructors were yelling "skis apart at the back".. It was total chaos. But I saw them again yesterday and it was better. Another few days and they'll be like another little group I saw, competing to see who could glide furthest with just one ski. they are going to be terrific quite soon.

I felt very ancient and slow, learning in my (very) late sixties.

The French are generally pretty good at teaching kids to ski. wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@pam w, to be fair and keeping a balanced view....
Our son enjoyed never complained whilst in lessons with ESF - even tho some other English parents moaned that Mr Michelle couldn't speak English, when we asked our son how he got on....."fine, He shows us what technique / changes we need to make, talks a lot of French and I just copy what he shows us...simples...".
Just returned to St Martin De Belleville and Mons Michelle is still teaching, still as big as a barrel and would never pass the speed test - but it works and our son is perfectly competent on skis...

A snowHead

Yes @noisey, kids don't need to hear and understand lots of words. A smiley happy friendly face is what is important for littlies.

A snowHead

We used the esf in morillon at new year. I booked my two (aged 7&9) into private lessons so they would be together. And because I couldn't stand the thought of them being stuck on a mountain in a large group with one instructor. I was soooo pleased that we did this. They had a wonderful experience with their fab instructor. She even took them for a hot choc and warm by the fire during the last day when they were wet and cold. I couldn't have asked for more.
However I was quite alarmed on our first morning on the nursery slopes to see a couple of tiny little ones crying so much that they could barely breath being ignored by the instructors and just put back on the lifts for another go. I guess they are used to them crying but it broke my heart. I was also very unsure about kids being put on chair lifts with random strangers and no one to look after them. And then just waiting at the top of mountains on their own. It will always be private lessons for us after seeing this.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've not used ESF but suspect their instructors are, as others have said above, good and bad depending on who and when you get them.
Though I made a decision not to use ESF a few years back on the basis of what is presumably a management policy - on several days during our week that year we saw ESF instructors with large groups of kids trailing behind them - usually up to about 16 but it was counting 22 that stuck in my mind - this wasn't a one off as we saw them several times during the week. IMO this showed ski school greed over customer care as the other ski schools in town closed their books at about 8-10 per instructor.

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We were skiing in Meribel today on a fairly busy piste when a snake of racers from 2 different Club des Sports in the vicinity lead by several ESF instructors charged down the piste. They did not give consideration to everyone else and didn't even move away from the ski patrol who were dealing with an accident at one point. We travelled back up the piste on the next chair to an ESF instructor from the same 3V resort with 2 clients and spoke to her at the top. She had seen all this and suggested we should report it to the Office de Tourisme as she was sick of colleages doing this. We skied down to the nearest office in Mottaret explained what we had seen and were given a report form to fill in. They said they would certainly deal with this and email back to us as there were too many accidents happening due to people skiing too fast on crowded slopes. We wait to hear the outcome.

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But they're ESF instructors. They passed a speed test.

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I've also witnessed lack of respect for other slope users from the various Club des Sports in the area on numerous occasions. Talk about setting a bad example.

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I've seen ESF instructors who seem to be doing a good job but also too many acting like idiots. E.g. snowboard instructors who seem to be teaching their large group of pupils that it is a good idea to sit in a line across the piste just behind a blind hump, ski instructors who think it's acceptable to drag their pupils through the middle of a large lift queue to get to the ski school line skating over other people's skis on the way (one in Tignes who got really annoyed when I tapped him on the shoulder and called him out for skiing over my stationary skis), one in La Plagne last week with a big group of kids taking up the whole width of the piste whilst messing around with his mobile phone and paying no attention to his class and many who lead their groups off straight across the piste without the slightest glance up the hill.

After all it is free

I think, as with most things in life there's a mix of good instructors and bad. The thing is we probably don't even notice the good ones who keep their group in order, don't snake the whole piste, etc. It's just the bad that stand out and stick in the memory.

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