Altitude issues??

A snowHead

Does anyone ever get any altitude issues when staying in a high resort?

I've stayed in Val Thorens a couple of time and always have problems sleeping (which is never the case normally, asleep before head hits pillow type of person) for the first few nights.

First time I thought it was a little weird. Second time I thought it cannot be coincidence.

It's happened a few other time when staying in high resorts. Also feel tired for the first few days, not whilst skiing, just generally.

Anyone have a similar problem? Could it be some pathetic type of altitude issues experienced at lower altitude than the normal person?

Most importantly, if you do get that, and know it is altitude sickness, is there anything that can be done?

A snowHead

It's not pathetic. Susceptibility to altitude is nothing to do with fitness or strength of character.

Sleep and tiredness problems are common. Prescriptions include keeping well hydrated, keeping bedroom window open and keeping off the booze.

Staying somewhere other than one of the highest altitude resorts in Europe might help even more.... wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yes, happened to me on a couple of occasions. First time many, many years ago when co-incidentally in Val Thorens, struggled for breath the moment I got off the transfer coach. It passed in a couple days but was hard work whilst it lasted. The second time was a couple of years ago when we went to the top of the glacier our first day in L2A. Being a lot older that time round made for a horrible few days, but it did pass. I just skied the lower slopes, made sure I kept hydrated, and layed off the booze.

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It happens to me, usually first night I have a pretty bad nights sleep.

I read somewhere that an aspirin a day for the month before you leave has an effect on the blood which can ease the effect. I can't remember where I read it, nor am I a doctor but you could give it a go, or as pam says try a lower resort?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I can only mirror what they have said above.

It genuinely is nothing to do with you and isn't a reflection on you as a person or your fitness. But, why not see it as a way of helping you improve. Many athletes train at altitude as it can help them get stronger and faster as it makes the body work harder. It also makes that drink at the bottom of the slope so much better!!

Water. Lots of water. Oh and a reward of water with hops in at the end of the day Wink

Aspirin and paracetamol will help with headaches. Aspirin can thin the blood slightly but it's not a massive impact. If you have diabetes then you should really think about seeing a Dr as some blood test machines don't work properly at altitude (says a diabetic friend).

As you've identified you have an issue, speak to your Dr. There are tablets you can take on prescription that help with altitude sickness.

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In my experience its often dehydration (induced by very dry air frequently occurring in ski resorts) rather than AMS. We have plenty of guests who reports that they experience altitude sickness in Argentiere, at 1250m which is medically _highly_ unlikely. The haemoglobin saturation curve is sigmoidal such that unless you have a very unusual biochemistry, up to 2300m (Val Thorens) there's only a few percent change in blood-oxygen levels vs sea level. Above that it starts to fall more sharply. If you want to see what's going on, portable O2 saturation meters are only a few quid now, and will let you see if there is a measurable effect or if you need to look for other explanation.

I know that when I'm trail running, I can start to feel (and see on the heart rate monitor) my performance start to decrease around 2500m. My efficiency (distance per heart beat) starts to fall at around this point.

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It's not just "altitude sickness" properly so-called. My sister and daughter who both suffer from migraine are very sensitive to pressure changes even at sea level. My sister has done lots of mountain (not just skis) holidays in her time, mostly lower than VT and notices a definite increase in migraines. My daughter once felt so faint and weird that she had to sit on the floor in college, seconds before a huge blast of wind hit the building, rattling windows and slamming doors. An intense cold front.

After all it is free

@Legend., yes, I got it in Breckenridge where the accommodation is at nearly 10,000 feet. Headache, nausea, difficult to sleep but it goes after a few days. I prefer lower altitudes these days. It's not often mentioned or written about but altitude is a killer - the most popular way to die on a ski holiday is heart attack and I think altitude has a big part to play in that.

Last Tuesday I skied on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier (up to about 3000 metres) with friends. A lady in our party (who had already been suffering from a mild stomach upset) developed a headache in the afternoon. Later she also mentioned that she thought she had been seeing double. It took her about a day down at lower altitudes before she could report that the feeling of an unusual pressure in her head went away. After that she was fine again.

That wasn't staying higher up for a longer period but probably confirms that people can be susceptible to the effects of altitude.

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I definitely get it in VT - difficulty sleeping, headaches, loss of exercise tolerance, short of breath after walking up a slight incline for 30 paces (I can normally stumble through a sprint triathlon without training) and a resting pulse rate running at about 90-100 compared to a normal of about 50. Doesn't help that I normally live by the sea. Comedy moment of the trip was an attempt to run round the lake - after I'd acclimatised for 10 days - ran 3km then hit the wall and had to lie on the ground for 10 minutes as I couldn't get a breath and my pulse had hit 190…..

When I went to breckenridge I ended up needing reasonably serious medical treatment because of it. I do like the colorado law that everywhere has to offer courtesy jugs water to try to counteract altitude issues.

So yep - not uncommon - I use it as an excuse to get someone to carry my skis up hills for me for the first couple of days... Toofy Grin

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I used to suffer lack of sleep at high resorts. My doctor prescribed sleeping tablets, with the warning not to use them except when at the resorts - since they could become addictive. They worked well. In more recent times, I managed OK without, IIRC (it's been a few years since I stayed in high altitude resort).

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@k, friend ended up in a mobile van on oxygen when in Breckenridge.

Not pathetic at all. A friend who makes butcher's dogs look fat and unfit was airlifted off due to altitude sickness.

You know it makes sense.

I've never experienced it myself, but Mr G also struggles at altitude. He doesn't like the Marmolada glacier run in the Dolomites and had a really bad time, especially sleeping, when in Breckenridge. He found that the plaster strips you put across your nose to open the airways helped a little, but as others have already said, it is really just hit and miss whether you get it or not. Luckily there are plenty of lovely lower altitude resorts around for sufferers.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Sleep low, climb high.

A snowHead

Never really notice it in the Alps, but the Rockies yes. Breck in particular. They warn you at Denver (which is 5000ft as it is) about acclimatising if heading up to Breck etc. Take it easy first couple of days, drink plenty of water and avoid beer for a day at least (ha!) and not go rushing up and down as Breck goes up to 13,000ft.

Not had serious effects, but a benefit is the booze works out cheaper as you don't need many beers to get drunk Very Happy

One thing I do find with a lot of places though, Alps or Rockies, is I get a very dry nose and bloody snot. Not sure that's altitude or the low humidity conditions. Or even just the air conditioning in hotels.

I've done Utah a fair bit and find I'm okay round there, but then I stay in Salt Lake and climb up to the resorts daily.

A snowHead

Acute mountain sickness can occur from 2400m upwards - just above the level of Val Thorens. The only treatment/prevention is acclimatisation - it's nothing to do with fitness levels.
I think perhaps the ease of road access and lifts etc makes us sometimes forget how high these places are. We fly in from the uk, sleep at 2000+m then the first day take lifts even higher - 3000+m and engage in a strenuous sport.
Remember places like Val Thorens and Tignes are much higher than the traditional mountain villages people live in.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I, too, ended up on oxygen in Breckenridge. Felt dreadful for the first few days. Never experienced anything like it before or since.

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Problems from being at altitude include, headaches, shortness of breath, sickness, dizziness, hydration issues.

Over time; nose discomfort (bloody snot as someone else mentioned) cracked lips, split skin on fingers, sinus issues.

But most importantly .......if you experience coughing at any time, which you seem unable to stop....descend without delay.

If skiing high up, immediate action should be to descend as quickly as is safe.

Acclimatisation can be achieved in a number of ways, slow ascents or graduated ascents (bit by bit)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

It is all normal - just about to complete 6 weeks in Tignes, always get more tired, but get interrupted sleep, bit of blood in the nose - hydrate and open the window. A skiing friend of mine with more money than common sense went to the local quack in resort, complaining of a dry throat and dry skin "Use moisturiser and drink more water. That will be €40 please" was the response.

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I suffered from mild AMS in Val Thorens but had more serious case the first time I visited breck and had to back to summit to sleep for 3 days before I got acclimatized.

I tried this stuff the next time I went skiing high and it helped.

Preventative Medications

Acetazolamide (Diamox): This is the most tried and tested drug for altitude sickness prevention and treatment. Unlike dexamethasone (below) this drug does not mask the symptoms but actually treats the problem. It seems to works by increasing the amount of alkali (bicarbonate) excreted in the urine, making the blood more acidic. Acidifying the blood drives the ventilation, which is the cornerstone of acclimatisation.

For prevention, 125 to 250mg twice daily starting one or two days before and continuing for three days once the highest altitude is reached, is effective. Blood concentrations of acetazolamide peak between one to four hours after administration of the tablets.

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We went to Breckenridge (just under 3000m) a couple of years ago and the only effects we noticed were being a tad more out of breath when walking up stairs. Even then it was only the first night and given how late our flight was (7hrs awaiting de-icing at LHR) it was more likely that we were just tired. I actually quite liked the feeling of being high up and the air being drier. That said, we did see an Oxygen bar and heard various reports of people suffering from it there, we saw a few folk using humidifiers in their rooms. It obviously affects different people in different ways. I believe vitamin C&E supplementation plus Gingko supplements can help.

After all it is free

Diamox isn't licensed for acclimatisation/altitude issues in the UK. Doesn't mean it can't be prescribed, but it's possible you'll be refused. Personally if I thought I needed Diamox I'd rather stay somewhere a bit lower as it ruins the taste of beer (and anything else carbonated).

Interestingly this is what the British Mountaineering Council say about diamox

'Diamox should only be used for the relief of AMS in a controlled fashion, to allow descent and rest - the only cure for AMS.'

I would be wary of using it simply to keep skiing at alitude - if you're getting symptoms of AMS your body's telling you something. Time to descend a carefully acclimatise rather than take drugs and carry on

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Docs on here used to recommend some zopiclone for the sleep issues which seemed to help with everything else. I agree that acetazolamide is not the answer, it is for higher altitude. A snowHead recently had altitude problems when on the way to Machu Pichu. Sounded very scary. I do fill the sinks at my apartment with hot water before we go to bed. At 1500m it shouldn't be a big problem, but with 4 of us in there along with 2 big dogs, it does help sort out the dry atmosphere.

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We've suffered headaches and dizziness at Cervinia (2050m). We went up to the Kleine Matterhorn (3820m) one day hoping to enjoy the views, but felt so dizzy up there we just had to ski down straight away.

Our trip up to the Jungfraujoch (3466m) was similar.

So we have been going to St Johann in Tirol in recent years. At 659m one of the lowest resorts in the Alps, so no problems here!

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Never had a problem with sleeping (in general I sleep easily and heavily) but always get a dry/bloody nose which is a pain. Most of my problems are related to the dry/cold air rather than specifically the altitude. Lips are always dry, generally I'm slightly dehydrated and the aforementioned nose issues...all worth it though, bleddy love skiing, me.

Altitude sickness worsens in stages.

Very mild = starts around 7k feet;
Mild = 13k feet;
Mid = 16k feet;
Bad = 20k feet;
Very bad = 23k feet;
Death = 27k feet.

You know it makes sense.

Live in Telluride for the season your get used to it Happy

Town Elevation 8750ft

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I have not had any symptoms for many years now as my body just seems to accept 'oh she's brought me high again'! Never any problems skiing but we have been hiking in Peru and the Himalayas. I am a biologist and decided to take Iron tablets on alternate days for a week before going high. The theory is that you need to make more Haemoglobin to deal with high altitude and although the body doesn't store much iron if you make sure you have plenty it should adapt quicker. You could just eat liver or other high iron foods. It does seem to work as we can hike at up to 5000m but that is our limit. We are both in late 60s now so don't go any higher. Don't take too much iron as it can cause constipation. Also drink lots of water.

A snowHead

It's not clear to me that the OP is necessarily describing Altitude Sickness.

Everyone's different. I suspect many people have headaches / sleep issues caused by lack of hydration more than altitude sickness. The former is easy to fix, the latter probably needs medical attention and descent. Whatever, if drinking more water doesn't fix it, then I'd find resorts where you can at least stay at lower altitudes. That way you can either avoid the heights altogether, or only visit them temporarily.

I think most skiers just slide down what are usually easy slopes from the top of the higher stuff, so they tend not to notice the lack of oxygen there as much as those who're climbing. You don't need sickness to feel that.

A snowHead

When we visited Breckenridge the last thing we did at night was to run a basinful of water and keep the plug in, in a (probably vain) attempt to hydrate the air in the bedroom. You'd hope that the hotel AC would be humidifying the circulating air, but given that most AC dehumidifies, then maybe not.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Although sleep disturbance is one of the features of altitude sickness, I'm not sure that everyone with sleep disturbance has even mild altitude sickness. I certainly get sleep disturbance at altitude including higher ski resorts but when I have been higher and hiked in the Andes no other features of altitude sickness have kicked in.

Although you don't want to be dehydrated and making sure you have the odd extra cup of tea during the day is probably sensible, I would be a bit sceptical about drinking masses in the evening, a full bladder hinders rather than helps sleep in my experience.

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I find it difficult to sleep for a few days at Val Thorens. I don't get any other symptoms. My wife has had the odd migraine but whether that's just a migraine or altitude sickness who knows.

Rich food, particularly cheese, doesn't help sleep that much for me either and given the prevalence of cheese in Savoie food, well...

You can certainly tell the effects above say 1800M physically. In the summer I put far less power out cycling from St. Martin to Val Thorens than I do from Moutiers to St. Martin.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Interesting. Glad it's not just me. Of everyone I've ever skied with I'm alone. Will take some advice on how best to deal and I now know what to blame!

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. . .don't normally suffer but was definately struggling to breath in the lift at the top of the L2A funicular at 3420m! This was probably due the multitude of steps prior and having to share a confined space with several other hyperventilating/flatulent adults . . .

Help!!

Altitude issues??

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