 Poster: A snowHead
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I would like an opinion on the following situation. Friend goes to a ski hire shop in France (which is often recommended on this forum) to rent some snowboard boots. He tries on a pair and they feel comfortable enough in the shop so he rents them for a week. Out on the slopes, the shoes turn out to be less comfortable than he thought, and by lunch time his feet are sore. He goes back to the shop, who do not have any other types of snowboard boots for hire in his (large) size. They say that he was happy with the boots when he was in the shop and they will therefore not refund the hire charges for the rest of the week. After a heated discussion, friend walks off in disgust leaving the shoes at the shop having paid for a full week, and hires a different brand from another shop, which are fine all week.
I wanted to check what the collective view is on the shop’s position. Is it reasonable for them not to find a solution to the problem and keep my friend’s money? I wasn’t present when he was returning the boots, but I understand that part of their argument was that if he hadn’t rented out the boots that morning, they could have rented them to someone else as it was a Saturday and therefore a changeover day, and that they were unlikely to hire them now for the whole week. However, this was a peak week with lots of people going into the shop that day, so I’m not sure how much water that argument holds.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The moral of the story if you have unusual feet is probably to buy your own. I had to make prior arrangements for ski boots for a visitor once. The shop did have one pair big enough and fortunately they were ok.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The story does say a lot about the french attitude to customer service.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's actually a ski hire shop run by Brits!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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in that case i apologise to the french.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The moral of the story..... |
Is to go anywhere but France, specifically the big popular resorts. We hear it too much from there, even the Brits that work there become infected with the same attitude problem. It's a shame because aside from that, the architecture and the crazy pricing, it's OK.
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Hubby ended up buying his first set of ski boots due to similar circumstances the pair they tried to get him to hire were too small and they didn't have bigger he tried going with them but couldn't last more that a few hours. He went back to the shop to complain although he couldn't hire anything big enough he could buy a pair big enough. This he did and to be fair (ish) to them thy did deduct the hire charge from the price and they were in the sale as it was the end of the season. It still felt rather wrong.
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Moral of the story, the shop should refund the money (except for one day perhaps).
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part of their argument was that if he hadn’t rented out the boots that morning, they could have rented them to someone else as it was a Saturday and therefore a changeover day, and that they were unlikely to hire them now for the whole week.
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If the size was "unpopular" enough that they only keep one pair, how likely there's another customer needing that same size? (and that it fit that other customer better?) The argument doesn't stand up.
Your friend may or may not be the most persuasive person in the world. That doesn't excuse the shop from their behavior.
Basically, they were not able to provide a pair of boot that fits, period.
How about e-mail this thread to the shop and allow them an opportunity to explain their rational?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To give the shop staff credit, there is a massive difference between what is legally right and what is morally right.
They offered a service and before payment and a legal financial contract he tried on boots and agreed to hire them for a fixed term. On exchange of money the contract is complete and legally binding for the duration. After a problem was found that was not the shops fault, they returned. They didn't have a suitable exchange, but legally they don't have to. I am sure they would if they could.
Whilst it is a bitter pill to swallow that they'll be able to re-hire those boots, they have technically done nothing wrong. The boots were not faulty, and were tried on in the shop. It's akin to shops offering a credit note rather than a refund on non-faulty goods, and TBH they're only doing that out of goodwill. Also, 1 customer isn't going to change their minds, there's plenty more waiting.
I appreciate it's not the UK but if you look up 'Sales of Goods Act 1979' you'll see if they were UK based they've done nothing wrong. I assume their laws are somewhat similar.
I appreciate you may want a bit more of a head rub than the above, but I'd rather give you what I believe is the brutal truth.
Morally, I think they should have offered at least a partial refund, or offered a credit note. But, that's legal not moral. The attitude may have sucked, but sadly, not everyone is a nice person. I think the explanation they gave is also reasonable in the circumstances, if 80% hire on a saturday and you go back late saturday, chances are they may not hire them out for a week. If they do re-hire though, that's sadly none of your business.
I'm glad they found boots in another store. Happy ending even if it left a bitter taste.
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@abc, This happened last half term and my friend sucked it up and moved on. No point in going back to them now, but a couple of recent threads on here got me thinking and I wanted to take people's views on the hire shop's behaviour.
@RobPowell, I'm in no way claiming that they have done anything illegal, more that their customer service is terrible. Which is surprising as they consistently get glowing reviews on here. They will ultimately loose money from this as this year (and all future years) our custom (8 kids and two adults) will be going to their competitors, plus we have been warning all our friends to stay away.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wonder how peeps do if they hire equipment online or through TO's? I would hazard a guess you're stuck with the hire shop and whatever they got to offer?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have never heard of a hire shop not swapping out skis and boots throughout the week if necessary
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| Pruman wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| The moral of the story..... |
Is to go anywhere but France, specifically the big popular resorts. We hear it too much from there, even the Brits that work there become infected with the same attitude problem. It's a shame because aside from that, the architecture and the crazy pricing, it's OK. |
I like to thank not all of us!!!!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| The moral of the story..... |
Is to go anywhere but France, specifically the big popular resorts. We hear it too much from there, even the Brits that work there become infected with the same attitude problem. It's a shame because aside from that, the architecture and the crazy pricing, it's OK. |
I like to thank not all of us!!!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I guess they'd have swapped if they'd had anything to suit the customer.
It's tedious when some people grab every opportunity to make daft generalizations about an entire country, by the way.
Is there any point in a thread warning of poor service from a place which otherwise gets good reviews here without mentioning the name? Might be a bit late though, given that the incident was a while ago.
I have weird and horrible feet so gave up hiring boots a long time ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@RobPowell,
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'Sales of Goods Act 1979'
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Actually in this case the sale is the hire, not the boot, therefore under the above they are obliged to offer a refund (with a day deducted) because they are unable to fulfil the contract.
However I have no idea what the law states in France.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Steve Angus, well of course not all of you, I'm sure you are a proper gent, but all too often we hear examples like the above and I have experienced similar myself. I simply don't get the same in Italy or Austria so, for me, its easy decision to go where I know my Euros are appreciated. In France I get the feeling I am there for their benefit, in Austria/Italy I get the feeling they are there for me. I'm not alone either as I know plenty who feel similar.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| However I have no idea what the law states in France. |
They'd ignore it anyway.
How much is it to rent a pair of snowboard boots for a week anyway? Can't be much due back. Nothing to lose in naming and shaming and changing the thread title to include the name and the words "beware" and "rip off" etc. They never cough up so you might as well assist them with their SEO 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The moral of this story is that some shops and shop staff are utterly immoral twunts. The correct thing to do would be to be apologetic about not carrying a wider range of boots, refunding the customer and directing him to a shop which carried different brands not make up some bs about how they'd have rented them to someone else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Is there any point in a thread warning of poor service from a place which otherwise gets good reviews here without mentioning the name?
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The point of the thread was to seek a collective opinion on whether the hire shop was right not to give at least a partial refund for the boots. However, if you are interested, it was the Polaire Star in Bourg St Maurice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@PollSki, I wholeheartedly agree. It is terrible, and if I were to go there I would avoid them due to what you've said.
@mozwold, taking this site as an example:
http://ski-hire-sport2000.co.uk/legal-information/rental-terms-and-conditions
"7.3 – CANCELLATION AFTER COLLECTION OF EQUIPMENT
Cancellation is no longer possible after the Customer has collected the Equipment from the shop. The Customer cannot claim any refund of the sums paid when booking."
They probably have a similar clause. Regardless, legally they have no claim, although I agree it's morally wrong. You were also correct, the sales of goods act wouldn't apply, my apologies.
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But this isn't really a legal issue it is a customer service one. If a hire shop won't strive to find you the correct equipment or give you your money back then what is the point of hiring from them? The whole value proposition versus buying collapses. If I knew that was the policy (as opposed to the legal right) of a ski shop I would recommend anyone I knew to avoid it.
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British people "infected with an attitude problem" as a result of living in France?  Wow, that's a great one even by snowHeads standards.
Of course they should have refunded your friend PollSki.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So, playing devils advocate here; where do you draw the line in "a refund should be given"?
Take the scenario; You book a car hire for a week, you collect the car and drive it for a day then decide you don't like it so go back to the Car Hire and ask for the next model up which they don't have available so you say well you can keep that one as I don't like it and flounceo off and hire another car from another car hire company.
Should you get a refund for 6 days car hire from the 1st car hire company?
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@miranda, I wondered if you (and Steve Angus) would respond to that piece of nonsense. I could cite two examples of excellent customer service in France recently and a shocking example from Austria. Samerberg Sue has also posted amusingly about her Faulty Towers experience in an Austrian hotel. There are good and bad everywhere and too many people are happy to generalise on the basis of rather little experience. Personally I really enjoy my ski area where you hear very little English. Brits abroad, en masse, are not always edifying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Come on Pam W. It's just a ski forum. People chat, chew the breeze, let of steam, talk nonsense. I'm not sure we need to make a concerted effort to keep everything evenly balanced.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| olderscot wrote: |
| I'm not sure we need to make a concerted effort to keep everything evenly balanced. |
Maybe not a NEED. But why not?
If it's ok to casually accuse a whole country of poor customer service, it surely should gbe ok for others to speak up to the opposite?
This is only "just" a ski forum, after all. 
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True. But when you have to ask others to contribute then it just strikes me as 'reaching' a bit. Nothing wrong with it. Just adding my bit as everyone else including Pam W are entitled too.
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You know it makes sense.
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@PollSki, whats more concerning for me - especially for as you put it "a ski hire shop in France (which is often recommended on this forum)" is that they only have one type of boots - apart from saying "Large" you don't suggest as mentioned above that your friend has particularly unusual feet - unless over UK size 12 I would expect a decent rental shop to a have a good range of boots available in that size.
We got a refund in a very similar situation from Alpinresorts.com when we hired from a ski hire chain in Austria, we had to provide a receipt stating we had returned the equipment after 2 days (6 day hire) and they returned the money to my card in a week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| I have never heard of a hire shop not swapping out skis and boots throughout the week if necessary |
This is my experience, in 3 resorts, and all in France.
Be polite, try and speak French and be friendly.
This has covered broken poles, missing baskets, missing poles, children changing boots every day. Adults changing 2/3 times a week when boots became uncomfortable
Total cost: Zero.
Planet Glisse Les Gets
Equilibres Arc 2000
Rosael Sport Reberty 2000
There have been others in other resorts where they have been helpful enough, but the three above were all excellent.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PollSki wrote: |
The point of the thread was to seek a collective opinion on whether the hire shop was right not to give at least a partial refund for the boots. However, if you are interested, it was the Polaire Star in Bourg St Maurice. |
It may not have been your point in the original post but certainly was the elephant in the room. It's reasonable to name, names if this is a factual account and should help those seeking to make generalisations that this was the actions of one shop (who got it wrong in my option. It's not unheard of for feet shapes to change after a days skiing at altitude so it seems odd not to take them back and either find replacement or partial refund).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@blahblahblah, I have also had only good experiences of hiring from (French run) French shops.
@AthersT, Not aware that he has partucularly unusual feet. Don't know what size he takes, but they're much larger than my size 7s!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@blahblahblah, add Sport 2000 in Les Gets to your list of hire shops who happily swap out equipment, several times, during the course of a week, if it's not right.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Wrekingirl, but the question is whether they would refund the remaining days if they didn't have a suitable substitute.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I bet if he'd have been skiing they'd have swapped the boots, so the moral of the story is, ski, don't snowboard
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
but the question is whether they would refund the remaining days if they didn't have a suitable substitute
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I'm sure nearly all places would - you expect there to be options to accommodate different feet, if there aren't the shop is not providing the required service and should allow you to go somewhere else without being out of pocket
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Moral of the story is, Ski orientated shops can't be trusted to equip snowboarders. Always try to find out the best snowboard place in town and rent from them. That way you'll stand a fighting chance of getting a good selection of decent gear, properly maintained and setup by people who know the difference between a snowboard and the hole in their back bottom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Richard_Sideways, that's a good point. I always use my local shop for ski stuff. But for snowboarding I'd direct someone elsewhere in the main village. And they're pretty clueless on cross country gear too. Gave friends of mine skating gear for their first ever lesson. If the instructor who pointed out the problem hadn't been prepared to do the lesson the following day, at no extra charge it would have been even worse. As it was they wasted a morning of a long weekend visit. I wasn't around - even my rudimentary knowledge could have saved the hassle. The shop was very apologetic, acknowledging it was entirely their fault.
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@Pruman, Thank you for that. I hope its tongue in cheek.or a joke.
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