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Trips to the Dolomites? Should I organise them...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So it occured to me the other day that this might be something worth investigating - we are looking to market our place in the Dolomites and figured that this could be a niche market worth supporting as most places expect miltiple occupancy. We have 2 flats (plus ours) all in one building which are comfortable and set up for shared living. Is that likely to be a problem as long as we can guarantee that there would be no mixed sex sharing? I figured that the best way to do it would be to run weeks a little similar to Colletts ski safari's only based out of one accomodation as we're very central and could easily get people to lots of the different resorts within a 20-30 minute drive, so you could easily ski a different set of runs each day. I'd organise a restaurant meal each night at the local pizza/pasta place which has really good food and a minibus for transport to the mountains and then around the areas. I'd be there to host and get stuff all straightened out... what do you think? Who'd be interested... we have room for 8.

Cheers,

Mike
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think if you have a 8 seater car with a trailer and offered tours of the Dolomites as well and did something similar with the cyclists in for teh rest of teh year, you'd be on to a winner.
I'm amazed so many Brits still opt for France when the Dolomites, in my opinion, are so much better in pretty much every way except lots of really gnarly stuff and that's proably there if you know where to look.

I you could tie it in with Airport pick ups too it would be really good.

I'd suggest looking at some of the cycling holidays people have set up at their places in the Alps and Pyrenees. People like meeting like minded peope to do stuff.
I've been on a few group organised ski holidays and the ones people enjoyed the best were when the organisers make the effort to build things socially, get everyone involved and organise things for everyne to do. 8 is probably a good number. Any bigger and things start breaking up in to cliques.
I think you position is great - Civetta, Marmolada, Falcade all very easy to get to and not too fr to go further afield.
The real joy of the Dolomites are the smaller satellite resorts that make a great day out. The highlights of my Arabba trip last year were the days out to Civetta andf then on the to Grear War route. Quiter pistes and a real sense of adventure. That feeling of actually visiting another country rather than simply being dropped in a resort and leaving again having been in a bubble all week.
You could probably do something similar for walkers and climbers too.

The other great thing are the cheap flights to Eastern Italy and relatively quite and easy transfers.

I think you've got endless opportunities really. Wish I was in your position......
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi Cameron - don't know why but I wrote a message back and it didn't get posted yesterday! Maybe I pressed the wrong button...

I think cycling, walking and Via Ferrata could work but not climbing as you generally want to know someones level before going out with them, especially for a week long trip.

I'm glad you think it's a viable proposition and I genuinely believe its an interesting market as there's got to be a load of people who find themselves without a partner and who just want to go. I'm going to start putting together a proper offering and see what happens. My idea so far is to:

Arrive out in Italy (if I'm not there already) the day before and organise a 10 seater vehicle, then pick up clients from the airport (or whereever they are) the next day. Go back to the house where the local ski guy comes to fit people with ski's and boots. Eat at the local restaurant (as we wpould every night)

Day 2: ski the Falcade area as a warm up session. It's a varied area with lots to do.
Day 3: Drive to Malga Ciapela and ski the Sella Ronda in the anti clockwise direction.
Day 4: Drive to Alleghe, and ski the Giro della Guerra in the anti clockwise direction taking in Lagozuoi, the Armentarola horse drawn ski tow and some of the fun runs above Corvara (and maybe the FIS World cup run in La Villa).
Day 5: Marmolada - a bit of a special day skiing with a guide on Marmolada. After having taken a run down the famous Bellunese run, we go back up to ski some of the fantastic off piste down the glacier away from the crowds.
Day 6: Drive to Malga Ciapela, take the lifts to Arabba and ski a great circuit around Alba to Pozza, then Vigo di Fassa and then back to Campitello to return to Malga. Or, drive over to Campitello, and ski beneath the foot of Sassolungo, take the snow bus up to Alpi di suisi, ski over to the far end of the alp, then down to Ortisei and return along the length of the valley. Essentially the Hexentour.
Day 7: Leave and return home...

I think I would offer this both to solo travellers and groups but make them seperate weeks... who's up for it?
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@Casa Alfredino,

I would put up the timetable for the skibus between Malga Ciapela and Alleghe both ways on your HP, otherwise it looks a bit isolated. 3 min walk to skibus is OK. You should also write about the first world war skitour and the the Canyon cascate di ghiaccio, as you are on that "track". snowHead
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks Hyst - that's a good idea. To be honest, usually people rent a car as it's the only practical way. But having said that it won't hurt. It's not a ski to the door place to stay. But it offers unparalleled versatility in that we are situated so as to be reasonably close to all the ranges... I'll sort a time table though - I'll be useful for people. The Canyon you refer to I've already written about for ice climbing pretty extensively - an article on UKClimbing has had 6500 views in just 9 months. But you're right, I need to write up both the Sella Ronda and Giro in a blog. Better spend a day getting some pics together!
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Are you there now Casa? I've just got into the hotel in Alleghe.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Alas no. I'll be there evening of the 27th until the 6th Feb with an ice climbing group... I saw you'll be there for a bit but get the impression you're off pretty much when I arrive? rolling eyes
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
just a thought-
I think you would expand your market if you provided an alternative option for beginner skiiers. That way couples or friends could come together and solve the problem of one being able to ski and the other not.
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Agree. That is a tough schedule!

snowHead
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Hey - to be honest this was just one idea! It could certainly be scaled back for clients at a lower ability and I would intend to offer different weeks for different abilities. There are people who would love to do something like I've described (I would for one Toofy Grin ) but it could be in similar areas just with a much more relaxed slower paced selection of days. So for example:

Arrive out in Italy (if I'm not there already) the day before and organise a 10 seater vehicle, then pick up clients from the airport (or whereever they are) the next day. Go back to the house where the local ski guy comes to fit people with ski's and boots. Eat at the local restaurant (as we wpould every night)

Day 2: ski the Civetta and Zoldo area as a warm up session. Have lunch in Zoldo and ski the lovely blues and reds over there before returning to the area above Piani Pezze
Day 3: Drive to Passo Falzarego and ski a small tour around Cinque Torre, over towards Averau and then return with the option of skiing the Hidden Valley down to Armentarola in the afternoon if people are game.
Day 4: Drive to Arabba and take lifts into the Corvara area, this is a really nice gentle area with many open, fun blues. We cross over to Armentarola and then return.
Day 5: Tre Valli - a 35 minute drive to Falcade or San Pellegrino makes for a great day of mostly intermediate reds.
Day 6: After driving to Campitello we finish the week with a clockwise trip around the Sella Ronda
Day 7: Leave and return home...

Any of that could be tuned up or down during the day to suit peoples fitness levels and who blasted they are. Or indeed changed around according to weather...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The first one is basically the four great on piste tours you can do in the Dolomites...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'm not convinced that you would get a mass of people in the beginner/intermediate group signing up as they have good alternative options but they may join for a day tour option. Advanced skiers would probably just do the tours themselves by the public buses but may do something involving guides/off piste. My favourite less know areas are Latemar and Cavalese. A trip to Passo Rolle/San Martino might also be a good idea as it's hard to reach by public transport and a nice resort plus ski area. Obviously the hidden valley is very popular but not entirely convenient so would work well. I agree too that the canyon would also make a nice feature of a trip perhaps ending up at a restaurant (it's also suitable for intermediates).
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I don't know for sure. What I do know is that theres a whole forum dedicated to solo travellers, and that Colletts ski safaris seem to fill up. You couldn't do one every week, but maybe once a month especially in the lower parts of the season when things are cheaper and there are less crowds... I think whilst you are right that there are people whi would just do the tours themselves (as they do every day of the week), theres also an aspect of having somebody who knows the circuits well and who can take you to see extra little titbits, or do a slightly different variation so you get a nicer day which will appeal. They are long routes and all bar the sella ronda, are either not marked at all, or not marked that well. Add to is that being a solo traveller is more expensive as a rule, if you could offer a trip at a reasonable price and which offers some company, it could work well... Any how, the only way I'll find out is if I start offering it and see what happens...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Agree with the last statement and hope you try something Smile. One more thing I'd say is to consider the time taken for the longer tours. Not sure how this works with Colletts as I did them myself outside a tour but to get the best out of some of the longer tours i.e. round val gardena valley (starting from another valley) or the world war tour you'd need to be skiing quite fast. If you were a fast skier you wouldn't want to be held up by slower skiers. Perhaps some sort of grading for trips would be good so the standards match-up. What do Collets do regarding lunch as again this could eat into the day if you stopped for long?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I believe Collets just stops. It's not included which seems sensible as there's such good food there...

With regards speed, I know (because I've done it) that the Sellaronda if you don't stop and pretty much straightline the runs you can ski it in 3hours 30. Sure I'm not the Hermantor, but it shows how little skiing there actually is if you don't stop. It's a really comfortable day tour and I've done it with people who had only done a weeks skiing. They found it tough for sure, but got round. That said, I wouldn't do a beginners week expecting it, and that would be an entirely optional thing.

It's been a long time since I've done the Giro but the thing about it is there's not any more skiing than the Ronda. The bit that takes extra are the transits and skijoring section. I'd possibly consider taking someone else to do driving sections on days which require links, that way you'd not have to wait for buses or taxi's. All that said, the house is directly on the Giro so you're not doing anything more than you normally would, and the Ronda if you start from Malga Ciapela, is maybe 2 runs longer than normal. By the time you drive to Canazei or Arabba you might as well just ski. When I'm there this time I might have a go at the Giro again to get times. The Alba-Pozza-Vigo and back option, really not hard I'd say especially with the new link in from the top of the Canazei area down to Alba. But as you say it's critical that you assess clients ability early on. Having an instruction background is pretty useful in taht respect as I've taught rock climbing for many years and eventually may look to get my guides carnet if I ever get time to finish the pre -reqs...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Casa Alfredino, it's a very interesting idea because, speaking for myself, I'd like to do those tours with someone who knew where they were going. Much enjoyed the Hidden Valley and other trips on the SH Birthday Bash but was very glad I wasn't trying to navigate myself.

What would the attitude of the Italian authorities to someone guiding tours like that for commercial gain?

You can't assume that everyone would be up for sharing rooms with strangers. You'd need some kind of "single supplement" option. Would folk be able to cook for themselves in the evenings to keep costs down?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I agree the SR and trip round Alba-Pozza (with new lift connection) not too bad for times but the two trips I discussed are a little trickier. As you mention travel takes up some valuable time (WW you have 1 bus plus the horse/xc/bus part on top, for the VGV you have the 1 bus plus the walk across town. I'd guess you also have a much longer ski/lift journey than for the SR or Alba/Pozza trips. Then for the hidden valley part you'd also need to consider the cable car queue as even in quiet times this (I think and on experience) can get very busy. By the way I much prefer the WW tour to the Val Gardena Valley Tour via Seiser Alm, although I really like the skiing on other side of the valley (Seceda). I guess another trip worth considering and sometimes mentioned on here which is nice is the one to the church at Santa Croc.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 22-01-16 16:30; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I would be up for the tour living in my motorhome. Would you have a no accommodation option too?
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I wouldn't be guiding - I'd show you around that's it. It's very much a grey area, really and I think if you are really taking the mick overtly then you'll be paid a visit. It's certainly not as draconian as france or the wester alps in general and you see any number of groups out with their company rep every day. If there was anything actually offpiste required by clients then I'd call in a UIAGM guide who is a good friend from over the hill.

Yes you're right, and I would have to offer something like that for sure. I would certainly make sure there would be no mixed sex sharing. The house is fully equipped for cooking, so I guess I could sort that pretty easily. I don't want to end up as a cRyanair with so many option buttons that you want to kill yourself by the end of booking though Wink I could certainly offer ski rental as an extra and have the guys come to the house to fit you out, and there's also the possibility of using a local hotels spa which is a couple of minutes away. Alas my cooking is not up to doing dinner for 10!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Poppyb - you wouldn't want to park you're motorhome on my drive - it's 25 degs steep and covered in snow most of the winter Wink Um - to be honest I think that's a tricky one. When I'm hosting guests, that's one thing. Paying to come on a tour is definitely counted as guiding... I'm not sure how you'd benefit to be honest as you'd have accomodation, somewhere to cook, etc. and the only thing you'd be getting would be someone to ski with...
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Millom, yeah the VG tour is a long one. The scenery around the back of Sassolungo is stunning though, and skiing around Compatsch is pretty fun. As I say, the days we need transits, maybe I'd need a co-pilot who would drive the van and sort the transits. I've done it a number of times, the most recent starting from Sella Pass. The walk across Ortisei is a bit of a drag for sure, maybe 10 minutes? And the ski bus can take some time. But I guess you just have to have a cut off point where if you're too late, you jump on the ski bus in Ortisei and skip Seceda which isn't the greatest skiing in the world and go straight to Santa Christina. Not as much fun for sure but it would save a big leg.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Apart from the old Spitzbuhl chair runs I'm not a particular fan of the Seiser Alm area myself. I really like the run from Seceda into Ortisei though so I'd be inclined to do the loop that way and skip Seiser area if running out of time (as you say bus along valley available @ 1-2 Euros). This also saves the lift up (very short ski) followed by lift down at Seiser to get back to Ortisei if going the other way. Going via Badia and return via Fassa I guess is probably the nicer way round SR (and less walking) from Arabba. The bus to Seiser probably takes about 20 minutes but you need to leave at least half an hour to be sure. The walk as you say is probably about 10-15 minutes (if you know where to go Smile). You've also got the underground train thing which is quite good fun (a bit like the one in Serfaus). If you're skiing over to Arabba and then going via Badia you'll also have that walk through Arabba (5 minutes or so).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yeah, I know what you mean... Maybe it should just be a tour of the best VG skiing and call it quits. There's so much good skiing like the Sasslong. Actually that would be a bit of an omission, and pland di Gralba has some really fun skiing, and the Dantecepes runs are good too, as is the red/black down to Selva... Having said all of that, lunch at Williemshutte at the back of Seiserr alm is proper good... As I say though, I would start from Campitello rather than Malga Ciapela as that really IS a long day... I still want to try sometime to do the Giro straight into sella ronda and back in a day just for fun Twisted Evil
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@Millom, No more walking through Arabba from one side of the road to the other - there is now a new lift (Arabba Fly) which goes from just above the Burz chair to above the Porta Vescovo lift station. I am looking forward to trying it out in a few weeks. Not sure what will happen to the bars in the car park though - presumably they will lose a lot of trade if people don't need to walk through there any more.
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I think its a great idea. Loads of people end up wanting to go skiing and not having anyone who can go at the same time.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@FionaG, thanks just had a look at the new piste map of Arabba. A useful upgrade to that corner of the SR, just need something similar near Selva corner now Smile. Can you travel both ways then, I assume it is fairly horizontal? Strange they didn't take it to the top of Burz and create a second lift to that peak (maybe they weren't allowed or maybe then more difficult to have 2 way travel??).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Yeah - there's been a couple of really good improvements this season... I heard on the grape vine that the commune this side are trying to get something done down our way up at Fedaia, but not sure what... will try to find out.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Millom, Yes, its travels both ways and looks more or less horizontal. You can see people travelling on it on the Burz webcam - http://www.bergfex.com/arabba/webcams/c8535/. They had to make it high enough to cross the road safely - it would probably be too complicated to take it to the top of the Burz lift.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hi Guys, I've sorted out the packages now. So I've done two options, 1 for beginners to intemediates with no specific agenda and 1 for Advanced intemediates to advanced skiers. I've also added a supplement for having a smaller group spread over 2 apartments which means you'd be able in our upper apartment be able to have two guests each with their own room. The lower one either you'd need to share or be happy using a comfortable sofabed. They would need a minimum of 4 people to run. Let me know what you think and if you're interested!

http://www.casa-alfredino.co.uk/packages/
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