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Russians 2015/16....

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Is it just me, or are there really far fewer Russian skiers this year?

I understand that they have domestic economic challenges and a devalued currency, but I'm still surprised. Seeing all Russians as wealthy oligarchs is a lazy characterisation; there are many hard-working professionals in banking/finance/technology etc. Perhaps this is the demographic that has been affected?
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Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
How about real hard working people in building, healthcare, catering, engineeering etc!
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Ah, another one framed in the "hard working" new speech
Suggestion, read Bertrand Russell's "In praise of Idleness": http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

And indeed, where is the "hard working" in banking/finance anyway? Hard working towards the next economic meltdown? Get real!
Back on topic, about the Russians: Think oilprices and EU-sanctions because of Ukraine!
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Irony isn't really a strong point for any of you is it..? rolling eyes

EU sanctions is an aspect I hadn't considered - thanks.
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I just came back from Serfaus and was thinking the same thing: no hard or other working Russians in sight which felt strange but in a nice way.
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madlondoner wrote:
Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute


Oi !! I bet I work harder than many people

I'm in the office before 5:15 and rarely leave before 6 (things have calmed down, I used to be in the office by 6:30 and leave after 7pm) and have a 75-90 minute commute each way.

I've also not had a day off sick other than when I got hit on my bike at 30mph by a car, sustaining a subarachnoid bleed on the brain (yes I was wearing a helmet before someone asks); even then I was back in work in 2 days

I'm far from unique. I know quite a few people in the public sector who have very cushy numbers however I'm sure many don't so unlike you I don't come out with pathetic generalisations
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I concur, I've not noticed any either, which maybe means there's only the quiet, polite ones here?

I'm well aware that's a sweeping generalisation but the ones I've noticed before have oven been fairly boorish, but then you don't notice the quiet ones do you?
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A large part of it would be currency? It's nearly twice as expensive for ruble holders now compared to winter 2013/2014. 2014/2015 it went badly wrong currency-wise around Sept/October 2014 and so perhaps people had already booked then - but this year there isn't that effect.

If I suddenly had to pay twice as much to go skiing in Europe I might consider other options. Perhaps domestic skiing in Russia is experiencing greater than average numbers?
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Maybe skiing just isn't the trendy thing to do any more for wealthy Russians and they're all doing something else instead.
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A few Russians around St Anton in early January but none of the large groups of a few years ago. Bognor's sales must have taken a beating.
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Kelskii wrote:
A few Russians around St Anton in early January but none of the large groups of a few years ago. Bognor's sales must have taken a beating.

Maybe that's the point. With the currency situation, it's much harder for Russian TO (if there's such a thing) to make a profit.

So the Russians that still come to ski in Europe are in smaller groups of families and friends rather than the large noisy groups?
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dsoutar wrote:
madlondoner wrote:
Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute


Oi !! I bet I work harder than many people

I'm in the office before 5:15 and rarely leave before 6 (things have calmed down, I used to be in the office by 6:30 and leave after 7pm) and have a 75-90 minute commute each way.

I've also not had a day off sick other than when I got hit on my bike at 30mph by a car, sustaining a subarachnoid bleed on the brain (yes I was wearing a helmet before someone asks); even then I was back in work in 2 days

I'm far from unique. I know quite a few people in the public sector who have very cushy numbers however I'm sure many don't so unlike you I don't come out with pathetic generalisations


this just makes me sad.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
There were quite a few groups of Russian speakers and similar in the ski Amadé area in the Orthodox Christmas week this year. Noticably more than the previous one that's for sure. Maybe they are looking for better VFM and don't flash the cash around in the same way they used too so they are not as noticable as before. In one hut I was in in Zauchensee I only heard Russian or something similar being spoken one morning.
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dsoutar wrote:
madlondoner wrote:
Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute


Oi !! I bet I work harder than many people

I'm in the office before 5:15 and rarely leave before 6 (things have calmed down, I used to be in the office by 6:30 and leave after 7pm) and have a 75-90 minute commute each way.

I've also not had a day off sick other than when I got hit on my bike at 30mph by a car, sustaining a subarachnoid bleed on the brain (yes I was wearing a helmet before someone asks); even then I was back in work in 2 days

I'm far from unique. I know quite a few people in the public sector who have very cushy numbers however I'm sure many don't so unlike you I don't come out with pathetic generalisations


and then our father would murder us and dance on our graves.... Luxury!
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dsoutar wrote:
madlondoner wrote:
Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute


Oi !! I bet I work harder than many people

I'm in the office before 5:15 and rarely leave before 6



45 minutes of oil trading used be enough for a living in the 80's, not sure it constitutes a hard day.
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abc, could well be right. My observations are completely unscientific and anecdotal, I just have a quick count of the Bognor gear wearers on the Galzig lift and then have a listen to confirm that they're Russian. They always are. Only noticed a few couples this year.


abc wrote:
Kelskii wrote:
A few Russians around St Anton in early January but none of the large groups of a few years ago. Bognor's sales must have taken a beating.

Maybe that's the point. With the currency situation, it's much harder for Russian TO (if there's such a thing) to make a profit.

So the Russians that still come to ski in Europe are in smaller groups of families and friends rather than the large noisy groups?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Last few years there been a Russian 747 in at Salzberg airport same time as us.
Wasn't there last week
May just have been in at a different time though
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About 50% of my business used to be in Russia, but all that came to a grinding halt in January 2014 with the Ukraine crisis. I think many of the people who came skiing previously will be earning a lot less and the slump of the Ruble will have made skiing much, much more expensive.

Quote:

Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute
I'm not a banker but I'll happily stick up for them on this one. I've worked very closely with investment bankers for 20+ years and there is no way most of us could work the hours that they do. For many of the guys I've worked with a typical day will start at 0530 and go through until well past mid-night. They will work those hours for six or even seven days a week. You may well think bankers may are evil child-molesters and responsible for plague, pestilence and everything else that is wrong with the universe, but you genuinely can't accuse them of not working hard.
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Well, obviously a child-molester can't be responsible for plague, pestilence and everything else that is wrong with the universe unless he works REALLY hard at it.
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We were in Grindelwald last week and only heard one family all week whilst on the way down in the cable car from Piz Gloria in Murren. Good news!
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Kelskii wrote:
Bognor's sales must have taken a beating.

I hadn't realised so many Russians went to Bognor Laughing Laughing
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espri,
Very Happy Very Happy
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Re bankers

Time at the office does not equate to working hard. It's just, spend most of the day everyday at the office.
The hours suggested by eddiesthebus are likely his perceived hours as opposed to actual busy at a task time. And they are completely unsustainable even if he does claim to work them for week stretches.

Re nurses

12.5 hour shifts three days a week usually understaffed. Usually have to do bank ( extra shifts) to afford living costs. Start at 21 - set retirement age now 68.
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Tinwhistle wrote:
Re bankers

Time at the office does not equate to working hard. It's just, spend most of the day everyday at the office.
The hours suggested by eddiesthebus are likely his perceived hours as opposed to actual busy at a task time. And they are completely unsustainable even if he does claim to work them for week stretches.

Re nurses

12.5 hour shifts three days a week usually understaffed. Usually have to do bank ( extra shifts) to afford living costs. Start at 21 - set retirement age now 68.


+1
Every time I hear a boast about length of hours worked, it turns out most of if it simple being present (typically involving lots and lots of meetings) rather than being productive. I worked in banking for a decade at a fairly senior level and seem to be able to accomplish the same os my peers by doing half the hours. Its a strange culture...!
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@Tinwhistle,
Quote:

Time at the office does not equate to working hard. It's just, spend most of the day everyday at the office.
The hours suggested by eddiesthebus are likely his perceived hours as opposed to actual busy at a task time. And they are completely unsustainable even if he does claim to work them for week stretches.
It's a different sort of working hard. Nurses are on their feet all day getting physically exhausted. This clearly isn't the same but if one assumes that people with desk jobs can work hard, then I still maintain that the bankers I know do work incredibly hard.
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maybe not after lunch.
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People still have this deluded view, frequently perpetuated by the media, that all people who work in financial institutions are :
Earning a fortune
Phenomenally greedy
Will trample over their mothers for the next buck
Have no ethics or morals

I'd have thought that many people on here would have the intelligence to see through that but obviously that's not the case. In fact of the hundreds of thousands of people who work in Financial Services, those attributes would only apply to a few hundred I would suggest. It's like watching an episode of rip-off Britain and then deciding that every plumber / builder / electrician etc are only out to screw you.

In fact just to illustrate the case I had speak several times to a grad I was mentoring ( I wasn't her boss) to ease off on the hours as she was working 14-16 hour days yet earning about 2/3 of a tube driver. She was doing more than some people 2 or three rungs up the ladder without the financial rewards in the naïve hope that she'd get a promotion at the end of the year (she didn't) yet none of her managers cared. The one thing that financial services is regarding jobs is very brutal. I've been laid off twice in the last 6 years and the days of big pay-offs are long gone. Every year many firms have big culls of staff and that's the main reason people work so hard IMHO and the competition for jobs is huge. Because if you don't work your balls off, someone else will and when it comes to deciding who goes it will make a difference. People these days have to be very productive (and be seen to be so) and spending hours in meetings will not give that impression I assure you. You will be found out very quickly indeed

I doubt that no-one in banking would try and favourably compare their job to nurses / doctors / firemen etc so not sure why it constantly get's brought up because very few other jobs would either. It's an easy target I suppose.
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Part of my irriTation was not really the claim that bankers do not work hard, but more that they should be singled out for workif hard, especially when they are paid so well and act not necessarily in accordance with what most people would consider beneficial.
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madlondoner wrote:
, especially when they are paid so well and act not necessarily in accordance with what most people would consider beneficial.


No generalisation there then! Explain please
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Their biggest priority is to make the most money as possible for their company in the short term. This is not necessarily what is good for the country as a whole, as shown by 2008.
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Dear me, this isn't going well. I seem to have triggered some Pavlovian responses and hijacked my own thread. Perhaps I should rephrase for those for whom irony is an elusive concept...?

Quote:

Is it just me, or are there really far fewer Russian skiers this year?

I understand that they have domestic economic challenges and a devalued currency, but I'm still surprised. Seeing all Russians as wealthy oligarchs is a lazy characterisation; there are many highly paid professionals too. Perhaps this is the demographic that has been affected?


@madlondoner - I am most offended by the easily offended wink
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Asking around 1950 yesterday* about Russian numbers this year and they don't seem to have been severely affected. Apparently going to Sochi is as expensive as coming to France, so those that can, do.

*I recognise that this is anecdotal, and a small sample size.
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madlondoner wrote:
Their biggest priority is to make the most money as possible for their company in the short term. This is not necessarily what is good for the country as a whole, as shown by 2008.


Oh I see. Sorry I hadn't realised that Tesco, Sony,Sky, any big business in fact were actually charitable organisations in it for OUR benefit. Learn something new every day
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madlondoner wrote:
Hard working professionals in banking? Does not compute


You mean the profession that makes most of the money for the country, dropped a bolloack - with the rest of society - in 2008 and now continues to generate most of the money for the country.
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No I don't mean them no. They don't make that much if it costs that much to bail them out when their punting goes wrong. It's gambling but when they lose, the state pays up.
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Ok - even I think this is more interesting than the Russians!

@madlondoner - what were the banking (punting to use your phrase) activities that gave rise to the write-offs and subsequent recapitalisation / bailouts seen in the UK in 2008?
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@IanTr,
Quote:

what were the banking (punting to use your phrase) activities that gave rise to the write-offs and subsequent recapitalisation / bailouts seen in the UK in 2008?


I'm not an expert, but shall we start with bundling multiple parcels of very high risk debt and selling it on as being as pure as the driven snow?

I have no doubt that the folks in retail banking work as hard as everyone else who has to earn a living, but it's still difficult for most people to see investment bankers or those who trade futures in oil/wheat etc- other than as being greedy narcissists with utter contempt for their fellow man.
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I expect the traders consider themselves as working very hard when moving the money / bonds etc around though. And they are most likely constantly engaged with the task.

Subjective and objective - Perception of hard work vs actual input vs actual output - could probably measure all those with different indices for computer work vs talking work vs caring work etx

perception takes value system and autonomy and 'contentment' factor into account.
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Well that little lot has put the world to right

Glad to see that discussions as well as skiing can go off piste - both enjoyable in their own way.

Bring back the Russians, nothing better that listening to us Brits going on about them.
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