 Poster: A snowHead
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Thought I had found the perfect boots yesterday. With narrow ankles, and wide-ish feet, I was trying on a selection of atomics (hawx, wayfarer, hawx max), with mixed results, but then I tried the XPro 120s, and it hit all the right ‘out of the box’ features:
- Boots a size down from how I measure, but toes just touching the liner ends when flexed (ok maybe a tad tight, but sure the thermo-fit would sort that out)
- Width on the forefoot a bit tight (ditto)
- Rock solid ankle hold, and an overall snug (slightly claustrophobic, as I understand it should be) grip the whole length of my foot, with no gaps)
But … after 20 mins in the things thinking I’d finally cracked it, I noticed my toes were a bit unresponsive. Taking my foot out, and sure enough the pad at the base of my toes (and bottom of toes themselves) were tingly and numb. Bare foot red marks revealed the problem – the instep was too low on the boots for me. I hadn’t felt any discomfort in that area, but clearly something had been cutting off the blood supply to my toes.
Now this was in my profeet footbeds, so we tried again with a much lower profile pair of green surefeet – but after 15 mins, the same problem was reoccurring.
We looked at the next size up, but there was masses of space behind the heel on the shell check, and it felt too roomy when I put it on.
So – anyone had any luck resolving this level of instep problem ? Even with a lower profile footbed (or the stock one), there doesn’t seem to be much that can be adapted – we looked at the plastic footbed in the boot itself, not sure how much that could be ground down. Also, how much would we get from the thermo-fit on the boot tongue ? The staff were a bit concerned that it could be worked out, and I assume if I go for it, there wouldn’t be a comfort guarantee, because of their concern ?
So, any thoughts ? In every other respect, the boot seems perfect, so would love it if this could be solved.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My new boots confuse me. Like you, when I first put them on they feel fine. Then after about 10 minutes my feet ache and my toes tingle. This goes on for about 10-15 minutes and then disappears. I think what is happening is when I first put then on everything is super tight but it takes 10 minutes for them to begin to affect my feet. I then go through a period of discomfort but then the liner warms and softens a little and my feet get used to being in the boot they settle down.
Can you try wearing hem for longer? I know people saying walking around the house with them for an extended period of time isn't truly representative but it just might let you see if they will go through a similar cycle to mine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Gaza, you will need a couple of days of bedding (not ! breaking) them in. And you need to stand in the ready position you should stand on them on skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Pejoli,
I have similar feet to you and have had similar problems. I ended up having some shell stretches to give a bit more space for the forefoot and for the toe length on my longer foot and used very thin socks (essentially liners). Even then I had pressure on my forefoot without even closing the front two buckles. The boots worked well from a skiing point of view but my feet got very tired by the afternoon and this did limit my enjoyment (and skiing ability at times) for the first few weeks. As the liners have now packed out they are perfect and I'm even in thin socks rather than very thin ones! But I don't think "investment" in the first few weeks was really worthwhile (perhaps I'm soft).
A couple of thoughts:
1. I didn't have the footboard ground down. I suspect even a mm here would make quite a difference.
2. The only boots that have fitted me well (heel hold) and comfortably straight out of the box were my first ones - raichle flexons. I have mentioned this to experienced bootfitters and they have looked at my feet and said "that makes sense - they are perfect for narrow ankles and wider forefoot with fairly high arches". Raichle don't make ski boots anymore but rights to the design and last were secured by dalbello and full tilt. They are very niche brands in the UK but might be worth seeking out
3. My latest boots (touring but tech started in race boots) are fischer vacuum fit (shells as well as liners moulded to your feet using special machines, you can tighten the shell as well as stretch it). That was ski Bartlett's solution to my feet - basically shrunk the shell down around my ankles. Heel hold and comfort is very good. A bit more pricy than standard boots but not stupid.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Have you had the problem in any other boots? I suffer from this and still trying to get to the bottom of it. Could be a whole load of things not just the instep
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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your feet sound like mine.
try Lange xt120 or rx120
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Can vouch for the Lange XT120 - were recommended for me (also of the narrow ankle, wide foot affliction) and after bedding in they have been really comfortable whilst still being a tight fit for good control.
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Hawx work for me for the high instep, on both pairs I've had I've required the toe box to be stretched by a couple of mm to stop my toes going numb.
Tried A few pairs of Lange out of the box but were not as comfortable...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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during the heat mold process if a bit of padding is placed over the instep you can raise the top of the boot by several mm, the base board in that boot can be ground down (although the material is horrible to work with)
standing in an unmoulded boot, with a good performance shell fit, in a shop... i would almost expect that to happen
should be a simple fix to a boot fitter
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But from what you describe I think you have a good starting point with the Xpro. To get a good fit in a performance boot some kind of work is more the norm than an exception (I ski in the Lange RS 130 Wide, but my duck-like feet meant even the RS130 Wide was still a bit tight across the front of the foot and some work was needed).
Part of the secret is to be able to go back to the boot fitter and get fine adjustments after you have broken them in a bit. You have to expect some discomfort on day 1 and 2, because if they feel perfect on day 1 they will be way too loose by the end of the week as the liners pack down. And making boots bigger is in general a lot easier than making boots smaller. Slightly too tight is pretty much where you want to be when you take a new boot off the shelf
M
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jedster wrote: |
@Pejoli,
I have similar feet to you and have had similar problems. I ended up having some shell stretches to give a bit more space for the forefoot and for the toe length on my longer foot and used very thin socks (essentially liners). Even then I had pressure on my forefoot without even closing the front two buckles. The boots worked well from a skiing point of view but my feet got very tired by the afternoon and this did limit my enjoyment (and skiing ability at times) for the first few weeks. As the liners have now packed out they are perfect and I'm even in thin socks rather than very thin ones! But I don't think "investment" in the first few weeks was really worthwhile (perhaps I'm soft).
A couple of thoughts:
2. The only boots that have fitted me well (heel hold) and comfortably straight out of the box were my first ones - raichle flexons. I have mentioned this to experienced bootfitters and they have looked at my feet and said "that makes sense - they are perfect for narrow ankles and wider forefoot with fairly high arches". Raichle don't make ski boots anymore but rights to the design and last were secured by dalbello and full tilt. They are very niche brands in the UK but might be worth seeking out
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Yep. I have similar feet with the added benefit of them being flat. And my (hugely comfortable) boots are Dalbello Viper 10s, fitted by Profeet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks all - a few options to explore when I get back (off to Val T tomorrow morning for a week!).
Foot width and toes aren't really a concern in my mind - they're close enough, and I've seen what the fitter did with my current boots, and both the XPro liner and shell will heat form. Reassured by CEM that they should be able to sort out instep too, but I will look into the Diabello and Lange option as well (already tried the Hawx, but will revisit those too)
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My current boots made my feet ache when new if I wore them 10 minutes in the house. For some reason that doesn't happen on the hill and I can wear them all day, unclipping at lunch. @Gaza, is that at home or on the hill you are trying the new boots?
Btw the xpro was too wide on my ankles while the xmax is snug.
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You know it makes sense.
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So I've picked up the search again ....
I've come back to the XPros, after trying the Hawx one more time, and with some reassurance from the fitters, I think I'm going to go for them. But now, it's sale time - and while there's no money off on the 120s, I can get the 130s a £100 cheaper.
Soooo ... anyone experience in the flex between the two? I'm quite big (6'3, just under 14 stone), improving intermediate (just about level 3 esf-wise) and I like carving (though not particularly adept at it beyond blues).I'm not super-aggressive in my skiing otherwise as yet. I don't have very good ankle flexion, despite lots of stretching, but in the shop I couldn't feel much difference between the two boots in terms of flexibility. Having read the other threads I'm still not entirely sure on the comfort vs performance fit question, and whether I'm falling into the trap - at the end of the day, I'm a once a year skier who's probably never going to get to an expert level.
Any thoughts on whether I should save what to me is a significant sum, or would I end up wasting even more on a boot that too stiff/unsuitable for my level or needs?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Pejoli, ….well…here's a view which will cause huge issues. I run big boots. HERESY. BURN HIM, BURN HIM!!!
I have damage to my feet from alpine climbing, and I am in ski boots all day when on the hills. After years of squeezing my feet into tiny tiny climbing slippers, my feet simply collapse when I put ski boots on. I do have a 'borderline size' issue - 42/41 euro which can sometimes be 25 mondo and sometimes 26. But with the ligament looseness in my feet, my size 42s can easily get into 25 mondo boots. Which then give me white, dead feet after an hour of skiing. Dangerous, actually - risk of DVTs, vein and nerve damage. So I use notionally sloppy 26s. why is this OK? Because for years I have done exercises with coaches, skiing with loose boots, to really enhance balance. I have spent years flapping around with kids, often standing for hours. Tight boots would have been a disaster. Now, I start with 26s on the loosest setting in the morning - just the regular footbeds - then tighten in the early afternoon. Liners out and on the radiator to dry and swell in the night - MORE HERESY!
…and guess what, everything's fine - carving at speed across boilerplate, hacking through crud, drifting through fresh...
I don't obsess about boots, or skis, or anything other than TECHNIQUE. Fine, spend time getting a decent fit, but I just don't go for a racing fit in a boot which needs to be worn all day, day after day. But that's just me...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CEM wrote: |
| during the heat mold process if a bit of padding is placed over the instep you can raise the top of the boot by several mm............. |
Does that works even with normal (non heat mouldable) shells?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
| during the heat mold process if a bit of padding is placed over the instep you can raise the top of the boot by several mm............. |
Does that works even with normal (non heat mouldable) shells? |
you can lift the instep area of most shells, the "non heat mouldable" ones are heat mouldable, they just need a little more heat in most cases
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Pejoli wrote: |
So I've picked up the search again ....
I've come back to the XPros, after trying the Hawx one more time, and with some reassurance from the fitters, I think I'm going to go for them. But now, it's sale time - and while there's no money off on the 120s, I can get the 130s a £100 cheaper.
Soooo ... anyone experience in the flex between the two? I'm quite big (6'3, just under 14 stone), improving intermediate (just about level 3 esf-wise) and I like carving (though not particularly adept at it beyond blues).I'm not super-aggressive in my skiing otherwise as yet. I don't have very good ankle flexion, despite lots of stretching, but in the shop I couldn't feel much difference between the two boots in terms of flexibility. Having read the other threads I'm still not entirely sure on the comfort vs performance fit question, and whether I'm falling into the trap - at the end of the day, I'm a once a year skier who's probably never going to get to an expert level.
Any thoughts on whether I should save what to me is a significant sum, or would I end up wasting even more on a boot that too stiff/unsuitable for my level or needs? |
Honestly, there isn't that much difference between 120 and 130 IME. I'd save the £100, especially at your size.
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