 Poster: A snowHead
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If you want something comfortable to walk in i would suggest snowboarding!
If you want a good,comfortable fitting pair of ski boots,go to a boot fitter!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Still got my SX72's in the loft - hubby even wore them for a few years after I replaced them... in fact 3 yrs ago we went to Les Arcs and took my 185 Fischer Comp RC4 racing skis, the SX72s, my "hybrid" Nordica's and a really ropey pair of 195cm skis for hubby and or original 80's dayglo ski jackets... we were on a really tight budget LOL! We hired carvers for a couple of days, but I much preferred my 'long' skis (although we were talked about in lifts when people obviously assumed we were 'foreign').
Since then though have been skiing with the kids so can't carry the skis and hubby decided to hire boots as well. I still use my Nordica's though and I really don't fancy a "proper" boot. I love that mine are clips and rear entry in the same boot.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had a pair of SX90s back in the day (the standard grey ones, not the red Equipe model). I'm guessing on the year, but it would be around '83/84. Comfortable - yes for the era, but not exactly the ultimate fit and performance. I found them way too soft in the end and binned them for a pair of Nordica 980s (uncompromising 4 buckle race boot). The Nordicas were in a different class for performance, but not as comfortable for all day use. I don't see much point in bringing rear entry boots back now as I'm more than happy with modern 4 buckle designs. My latest Salomon Falcons are the most comfortable boots I've ever owned and performance is top notch too. So I don't think I'd benefit from a modern take on the rear entry design. Easy-walking might be the only real advantage, but that's not a problem I have personally.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| big-pete wrote: |
I have used my SX90's since '82 |
Holy crap!!!!
You're not telling me you've used the same boot liners for the last 27 years?
Maybe the plastic turning a sickly greenish yellow is telling you something?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, you do not need to buy new ski boots every 30 seconds. This is a myth put about by people who sell boots.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, Don't be silly, that would be 840 new pairs every day.
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| big-pete wrote: |
I have used my SX90's since '82 |
That must surely be a record! I had my old dearly departed Nordica rear-entry boots from 1991. They did me a full season and a further six ski trips. I thought that was pretty good going for a £40 pair of boots...
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Continious use since 1982 is testimony to the quality of their design and manufacture. 
I carn't imagine a clip boot lasting half that time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Peter S, you might be right but I think replacement clips are generally not an issue if they break, although there are more of them to break on a clip boot. I finally had to ditch my old rear-entry boots due to a broken clip. I'd have gotten them fixed if Nordica still made the replacement clips, I don't care about being unfashionable, I just care about comfort...
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I used to hire boots (mid entry) but my feet used to rattle around so last year I went to the ski show at Olympia and bought some Nordica Speedstars, with custom moulded insoles. These fit wonderfully -no pain, no black toes, etc and make skiing much easier. So in these the sole of the foot is held secure by the moulded insole whilst the top of the foot can be held securely in position by tightening up the buckles on the front. But with rear entry boots you would not be able to do this. You would have to have a system with a custom moulded upper as well as a custom moulded insole which would be technically wore difficult and so more expensive. Even in this case there might be problems for some people in getting into the boots as the toes would have to get in through the moulded midfoot part. Also if the moulded insole extended back to the heel (as of course it would have to) mightn't this be traumatised by the rear entry mechanism? I reckon those who really liked rear entry boots were those who lucked out with the fit.
And it occurs to me that when I struggle with 4 buckle boots then this is the Ski God's way of telling me that i should do some exercises to increase my flexibility and lose some of that annoying stomach which gets in the way. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I had a pair of the red SX90E's in the early 1980's. Gave me decent control (very rigid shell design) but killed my bony ankles. Replaced in mid-80's when the SX92E first came out - most comfortable pair of boots I've ever worn. Flex could be easily adjusted for different ski conditions. 10 seconds to put on or take off. A brilliant design.
Three years ago the heal piece disintegrated on me and I had to buy a new pair when the ski shop told me that Salomon no longer offered parts. Over Christmas I was in another shop buying boots for my daughter and asked about the healpiece. They dragged one out from their parts bin, so my SX92's are back in service (I use them when I feel like hauling out my long (205 and 207) racing skis, which can not be adjusted to my newer boots.
Here's my list of pros and cons:
Rear Entry pros:
- easy to put on and take off
- very comfortable
- good designs can be adjusted in many more ways than today's boots
- can be quickly loosened and tightened (e.g. after your run)
- easy to adjust flex
- bullet proof
- good ankle and shin hold
- typically warm
- one boot (sort of) fits a wide variety of skiers
- faster drying - boots can be left wide open
- less prone to leaking
Rear Entry cons:
- not very good forefoot hold
- do not feel as connected with the ski
- on models where flex could not be adjusted, walking was difficult
- so '80's
Four Buckle Boot pros:
- If boots were properly fitted in the first place, will give a better fit and better control for advanced skiers
Four buckle boot cons
- can be difficult to put on - especially when cold and boot plastic has hardened
- difficult/impossible to significantly adjust flex
- difficult to remove liners
- buckles are easily damaged
Having said that, for most skiers, fit/control trumps all else.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Levitt wrote: |
Four buckle boot cons
- can be difficult to put on - especially when cold and boot plastic has hardened
- difficult/impossible to significantly adjust flex
- difficult to remove liners
- buckles are easily damaged
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I've never found any of those to be an issue with decent boots. I've scraped the odd forefoot buckle but never actually broken one. The other cons on your list are non issues for me. Can't say I've ever missed my SX90s. They were ok, but nothing special. I've had some uncomfortable 4 clip boots in my time, but the last 2 pairs of Salomons I've owned have been superb. 4-clip is the better design concept as far as I'm concerned. Probably why nearly all boots are of that type. But I don't see any reason why rear entry couldn't work well for some people eg. children, beginners, casual cruisers etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Surely weight is also big drawback with most modern mid entry boots. Perhaps one of the reasons so many are choosing AT boots for on piste ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rear entry boots bawhahahahahahaha,bawhahahahahahaha
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Looks like a good compromise. Very light and a vibram sole. Perfect for skiing in all those places with lots of walking. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As a relative novice here, I get into a techie thread with some trepidation...
Surely a rear entry boot is one where the hinge point is very low. That's it.
There are then different ways to buckle them - the horrible plastic loops or more normal buckles.
Aren't the current Nordica Gran Sport Easy 14 and Nordica Olympia Easy 12 actually rear entry? And with sensible looking buckles.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's my gripe ! I don't want to tell any snowboarder or wanabee base-jumper their gear stinks and they shouldn't be doing that stuff and say you can't buy that kind of gear any more. That's their thing and they can do that dumb stuff all they like but why are there so many front entry buckle heads telling the rear entry boot loves , you can't have that any more. Mind you own and Salamon "have some balls and make some SX91s for the market that is yelling you to do it again".
For the buckle heads who feel the need to reply, "You don't have to buy any!"
Cheers. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Davo, I think Salomon pulled out of rear-entry boots because the late Georges Salomon had essentially ceded control of his business at the time the decision was made.
It's now 20-30 years since all the key patents concerning rear-entry boots were filed, and therefore the market is open to any manufacturer to get serious about this consumer-friendly concept again, without the necessity to pay license fees to the original patent-holders (as I understand it).
I skied last winter in a mint pair of Nordica Syntechs (photo right), which date from the mid-1990s, and were a fusion of rear-entry and clips. It's a superb design, lacking the Salomon's flex control feature but with superior shell closure (since the Salomon designs had a fixed volume shell). Like the Salomon SX series, the Nordica has a very effective release at the rear for walking and easy entry.
I agree that it's high time that boot design got innovative and sensible again.
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Davo, Welcome to SH
..............and a bizarre first post to BUMP a 4-yr old thread
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Comedy Goldsmith, please tell me you married the boots up with a matching fart bag.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd love to see a modern version of rear entry boots.
Preferably combined with modern big ass rocker skis on an icy piste so I could amuse myself while the wearer wrestles like a squid wrangler for a bit of edge control.
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fatbob, yep, but Marc Giradelli won World Cup slalom races on his SX90Es
I think they have their place. And surely someone can make one that really works.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, Yep and the old boy locals who still rock the job lot they bought back in the day can still bring it. But modern clips are so much better for control and power especially on wider skis. I think ski companies have been through enough of the retro is cool thing to speculate that if they thought there would be sufficient market they'd be all over it like barristers on Rebekkah Brooks (FTAOD reference to court case not anything else), especially if there were no patent concerns.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, I just can't trust the advice of anyone who keeps saying 'back in the day'. Which day?
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You know it makes sense.
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emwmarine, It's the middle aged oldskoolers way of referencing the glory days of the 80s ? See also fings ain't wot they used to be.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The Nordica Syntech was a crap boot. It suffered the same problems as other rear entry boots, lack of control. The buckles were ineffective, more to make it look like a 4 buckle race boot. For what good they were they may as well have made them a solid moulding and saved money on actual buckles. The wheel thingy tightening a piece of wire to hold your heel in place at the back is there because the shell offers such poor foot hold. I guess the advantage of this kind of design is that it would put beginners back in their place and they wouldn't be whizzing around the slopes and even in the powder after just a few weeks lessons.
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Poster: A snowHead
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davidof, +1
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| I guess the advantage of this kind of design is that it would put beginners back in their place and they wouldn't be whizzing around the slopes and even in the powder after just a few weeks lessons. |
Right on - I'm seeing more merits by the hour.
Just put a non-proliferation treaty on skis wider than 70mm and I'm good for a while. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| davidof wrote: |
| The Nordica Syntech was a crap boot. |
Strongly disagree, David. I spent years in the Tecnica TNT (generally considered the best of front-entry) after 'rear-entry prejudice' got ingrained in the market, against consumer preference. So that's the basis of my comparison.
It's a nonsense that having a releasable rear to a boot automatically engineers lack of control into the shell/liner, which seems to be the basis of the prejudice.
| davidof wrote: |
| The buckles were ineffective |
Strangely, that's the opposite of my recent experience - I found them really nice and effective to use.
| davidof wrote: |
| The wheel thingy tightening a piece of wire to hold your heel in place at the back is there because the shell offers such poor foot hold. |
That's the feature I used least. It does pull the foot back, but I found the clips effective enough not to need it.
Making boots ergonomic, easy to enter and easy to walk in, should be an imperative and restored to that imperative.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Here is thing about ski boots .
The boot only needs to hold the heal and the shin bone. The rest of the boot keeps your foot warm. The heal lifts the back of the ski and the shin tills the ski to turn. If your using your roses then your a poor skier and need some help.
Surfers can do most skiing moves with no lock down at all. False security in over tight boots is an error. Ride skis don't steer them. The boots should be a platform for your feet not a vice.
Cheers
David and others.
PS: agree or disagree I appreciate the interest.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry that was supposed to be skis on their toss, not roses.
Bloody phone keyboards.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Davo, Could not disagree more, and it's heel and toes.
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Davo,
While I see what I think you are getting at, I think you are explaining it poorly.
And I see no functional similarities between skiing and surfing.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| And I see no functional similarities between skiing and surfing. |
The inventor of the monoski, Mike Doyle (one of the world's greatest surfers), certainly saw a functional logic in linking the mechanics of the two, to great effect:
http://www.abc-of-skiing.com/info/monoskiing.asp
As far as boots go, Davo's point is best explained by saying that there have been attempts (going back to the early days of the plastic ski boot) to produce 'perfect' transmission of knee/lower leg movement to ski. These boots (with very high shafts) fail, because (as inspired by the surfer's control of a platform with naked feet and unsupported ankles) what you really want is a compromise. Perfect transmission makes skiing almost impossible.
In some ways the most elegant skiing was achieved when expert skiers used some degree of muscular power in the ankle to achieve subtle edging ('wedelling) of the ski for very rapid turns (short swings). Plastic boots killed this aspect of the sport, but enhanced others - such as powerful carving.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Comedy Goldsmith, oh I really don't think so...
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I have never worn mi boots when performing a rear entry 
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FAQ
