Poster: A snowHead
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If you've joined the world of skiing in the past decade or so, you've probably only seen rear-entry boots on the feet of happy comfortable skiers - they hardly exist any more - they've (I think I'm correct) totally vanished from production. Some people (many of whom used to wear them) joke about them.
The rear-entry boot began to have a significant impact in the mid-1970s (prestige American boots like Hanson and Scott sold quite well) but it was Salomon's five-year research project on the SX range, introduced in the late 70s, that up-turned the market. When the SX91 ...
... was launched in 1984, its design (arguably the most revolutionary/effective in the history of ski boots) shook all competition to the core. Within a couple of years there were boots in identical colourways from almost all manufacturers, but Salomon's mechanics and components were protected by umpteen patents. The sliding forward-flex control, for example, has never been equalled. I once stayed in a chalet where every single dweller had a pair of Salomon rear-entry boots.
Importantly, the well-designed rear-entry boot offered four other key advantages:
- Less pressure from the shell, because the shell had a fixed volume. Heel hold-down was achieved internally with a cable loop and pressure-spreading plate across the instep. A rear clip pulled it tight.
- All day comfort (usually). Much less fiddling with clips.
- Memory of closure settings. No clips with notches.
- Easy walking. The rear clip at the top released the forward lean of the boot, making it instantly much easier to stand and walk to the lifts.
When racers (and a fair proportion of instructors) refused to wear rear-entry the manufacturers (significantly, Salomon again, in the end) turned the top-end of the market against them. Eventually the production diminished to beginner-intermediate boots ... and then they vanished completely.
But anyone with any memory of these fantastic creations would wonder if they will return. What do you reckon?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I really rather doubt it, I' afraid, I did like the rear entry boots but boots generally are a lot easier to get into now anyway. It has to be said that the manufacturers will go with what people generally want and if they are advised against the likes of rear entry boots by both instructor and shop assistants then the market for them will not come back (could be wrong of course)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, never, hated them couldn't see the point when a classic four clip boot does everything you need.
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Pretty sure it will be next Christmas.
I specifically heard a shop owner in Austria saying it would be a f###ing cold day before they started seling them poncy boots again.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David@traxvax wrote: |
David Goldsmith, never, hated them couldn't see the point when a classic four clip boot does everything you need. |
Why did you hate them? They were wonderful!
Warmer (I think, less problems with circulation), easier to get into, far easier to tighten, far easier to walk in. And I think the dreaded black toe was much less frequent with these boots. Ski control, edge-to-edge steering, on the best models was fine.
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Actually by the time I finished wearing them, the said wire that held my heal in place, dug into the front of my ankle and it killed!!!!!
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I believe the esteemed Dominique Perret, extreme skier and product designer (See Stockli Stormrider DPs) has a design on the board for a new range. (You may be able to find Thema Engineering's site)
Apparently solving the problem that rear entry boots are only comfortable because your feet don't actually touch the sides.
Which is why they never made it onto the race circuit in any big way.
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Hopefully never, I was never able to get a good fit and was constantly playing with settings on my Nordica N728's ? never tried the SX91's I read some where that one rear entry boot had about 15 different adjustments to get right can't think where I read it though. I much prefer my Salomon 4 clip boots perfect fit and dead comfy
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Quote: |
Importantly, the well-designed rear-entry boot offered four other key advantages:
- Less pressure from the shell, because the shell had a fixed volume. Heel hold-down was achieved internally with a cable loop and pressure-spreading plate across the instep. A rear clip pulled it tight.
- All day comfort (usually). Much less fiddling with clips.
- Memory of closure settings. No clips with notches.
- Easy walking. The rear clip at the top released the forward lean of the boot, making it instantly much easier to stand and walk to the lifts.
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You could also add:
- light weight......... modern boots are much heavier making walking and all day skiing more tiring
- easy to remove inner boot for drying.....modern boots are more likely to remain damp and therefore cold. Alternatively you risk injuring your fingers trying to remove the liners
- Aerodynamic, the clean lines made breakage and trapped bindings much less likely. Thats why many hire shops and artificial slopes still use rear entry boots, the SX92s are virtually indestructable.
- They take crampons, which I've found useful on occassion ! If only they had vibram soles, then an updated SX would be the perfect ski boot for general holiday use.
I've still got my 1986 SX92s. They are undoubtedly the best value sports equipment I've ever bought. It was partly the move back to heavy, ankle dislocating, top entry boots and heavy skis that made me move over to Telemark.
The real reasons for Salomon stopping rear entry production were fashion and racing dictat. I'm sure engineering, comfort and longevity were never serious issues in their decision.
If only someone could take up the Salomon licences and remake the SX92 or later Force 9. I'm sure it would sell in droves once again to lots of skiers fed up stomping about in heavy, awkward boots.
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Peter S, some of your points are valid although I don't believe my SX92s were any lighter than any of my other boots.
Modern boots screw your ACLs not your ankles.
The big problem is that it is hard to produce rear entry boots that transmit forces between your feet and your skis. They're just functionally inadequate for aggressive skiing/racing/etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David,
Most skiers don't race but they do walk around and stand on Gondolas and in cable cars a lot. I know plenty of agressive skiers that used rear entry boots without complaint, and some that still do.
Presumeably if they were rediscovered they would also benefit from new plastics, composites and construction methods which might make up for any perceived lack of precision. Their other advantages over top entry boots would surely win them over to new customers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Murdoch wrote: |
The big problem is that it is hard to produce rear entry boots that transmit forces between your feet and your skis. They're just functionally inadequate for aggressive skiing/racing/etc. |
But over 90% of skiers have nothing to do with aggressive skiing/racing.
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I never used them...but is it possibly the case that, even if you're not a racer or aggressive, a boot that transmits forces better to the ski is going to be better for just about all skiers?
Another question: perhaps they would work less well with carving technique?
And finally: don't 'soft' boots offer the same functionality nowadays?
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith wrote: |
they hardly exist any more - they've (I think I'm correct) totally vanished from production. |
Not quite
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Why stop at white rear entry boots, why not go for the full Star Wars Stormtrooper look?
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brian
brian
Guest
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The SX91 pictured is from about 1987. The original Salomon rear entry boot was the bright orange SX90 as worn by Marc Girardelli and my mate big Darius (he had enormous feet, size 13 I think, and it was the only boot that was made big enough).
I had a pair of Lange rear entries with built in heaters, got them cheap in a sale. Comfy but, as said above, functionally inadequate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Quote: |
The SX91 pictured is from about 1987. |
Brian, I'll bet you a fiver that the date quoted - 1984 - is correct. Time flies!
The SX90 (first Salomon boot) was introduced in France in (from memory) 1978, and internationally a year later.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, Like these SX90
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SX90 SX91 SX92's happy memories. They make great book ends now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dunk, I'm pleased to hear they're good for something.
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brian
brian
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kevinrhead, that's the ones ! Wonderfully understated orange that.
David Goldsmith, I'm hanging onto my fivers, you're no doubt right, I think I strategically miscalculated my own age there !
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Peter S, I think that's why Perret is trying to get people re-interested in his designs. His site's down though so can't even try a googley translation.
David Goldsmith, true, but most skiers want some connection between feet and skis. Also, I don't recall my SX92s being any more comfy than my preceeding Nordica 4 clips or subsequent Tecnica TNTs. Just a lot less precise. An awful lot.
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kevinrhead,
Hilarious: note the description, "These are ideal beginners boots and very comfortable and easy to adjust."
No they bl**dy are not. They are the SX90 Equipes. Unfeasibly rigid, not very comfortable and as far away from a beginners boot as you can probably get. E-bay idiots!
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David Goldsmith, Just on a point of order, why does one see so many people on "racing" skis, in "racing" boots and "racing" along too fast for their own good?
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Oh Dear, not much support amonst the racers then for rear entry boots.
Presumeably there won't be a great deal of interest either in resurrecting that other 1980s design classic - the Mono Board ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Peter S, still got one, it's hanging on the wall of our ski room, usually gets an outing once a year for 'Le Gouille' the end of season, fancy dress, water jump, dual slalom almost serious race.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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come on. they were rubbish. when I moved on to mid (?flexons) and front entry boots it was like night and day. If you were talking about flexons, I think you'd have a point:
1. light
2. easy to get on
3. very good performance
only problems were
1. dodgy buckles
2. rather specific fit
J
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Hello, this is my first post.
But when i went to buy my last pair of ski boots i asked the person in the shop if they had any rear entry boots. He told me that companies stopped making them for safety reasons. Supposedly its a lot easier to break your ankle in them because they're not constructed as strongly on the back. So i don't think they'll be coming back any time soon.
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith
That is an interesting question.
I believe that Salomon made a serious marketing mistake. They had the top model rear entry boots but let their advantage slip and went chasing a race boot market when they did not need to. I remember other so-called racing boots at the time, like Dachstein, which looked a real pain in the a*se compared to the Salomons.
Rear entry models will come back but there will need to be some new bullsh*t ( sorry spin) to sell them to the skiing public.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AN02ZEJ, welcome to snowHeads!
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Goldsmith, Yeah, i ride a horse to work, hope the plague comes back to Britain and shave with a sword. Are you the only, speaking 'Wax Dummy' able to use modern technology as the rest of use to move into a new era. Think about the technology you promote with technology that wasn't available to promote it at the time. I've just had to cover Darwin with soil again due to his constant unrest as to your posts. Leave the 'Man' alone, you're a barnacle on the earth's backside.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You'd never think they'd been away, the number we have been seeing in Tignes this season. I'll stick to my four clips for now, though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I want some of what SMALLZOOKEEPER's been smoking
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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St Emillion, 1997. I don't spend 16hrs a day talking to dentists about skiing not to enjoy my days off. Word to all your mothers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Rear entry boots are to the ski industry as the Edsel was to the motorcar industry. Let dead dogs rest in peace. I've been skiing since the early 60's and thank God I passed that era completely dressed in boots with at least 4 buckles.
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itchygo Your point? Bring on the cynics, butt-kissers, life-suckers and key-board-tappers. You wana waste your hard eared cash? You've only yourselves to blame. I burned my hand once, don't play with fire, it's simple.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Russell wrote: |
I read some where that one rear entry boot had about 15 different adjustments to get right can't think where I read it though. I much prefer my Salomon 4 clip boots perfect fit and dead comfy |
that was me - I think it was either a Raichle or a Nordica but can't remember - it was white with turquoise bits on (really!)
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Curious timing - my clients this week were all given BRAND NEW Nordica rear entries. I was astonished - the shop (Alp Ski) had clarly bought up all the left over stock. Actually I like them for beginners for all the reasons previously stated, but the only time I ever used them myself they deadened the nerves in my foot for 6 weeks (SX90)!!
They're features in Blizzard of AAhhs on the feet of some pretty useful skiers - SX91/2s???
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