 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from a trip to Les Coches and I got charged 200 euros for a split edge on one of my skis when handing them back on Friday evening. There's a pic in the spoiler below.
Whilst i was going through the paperwork after getting back yesterday I noticed that I my original booking was for "Performance" level, Rossignol Pursuit 16.5 or equivalent. But the receipt for the damage states I was given K2 AMPRX's which they said were 3 years old. I've also had a look online and found references that those K2's are a beginner/intermediate ski. The booking site (precisionski-rent.com) also lists K2 A.M.P. 80XTI as the equivalent model.
If i'd done anything intentional that could possibly have caused that damage then i'd gladly write it off but i'm a pretty careful piste skier (especially in low vis like conditions for most of last week).
So I'm wondering if i have cause for complaint that if they had given me the equipment i ordered i may not have returned with a damaged ski. Failing that, does 200 euros sound like a fair price to pay for a pair of 3 year old basic skis? At first they were saying it was 600, then dropped to 300 and finally 250 (after a call to the boss). It was me that suggested 200 which initially prompted a massive hissy fit and threats to call the police. I said with all the price changes i thought we were in a negotiation. So after another call to the boss they accepted that.
Appreciate any advice, even if its just suck it up and move on!
Spoiler
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can you claim on insurance @mango,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thats about normal for hire shop charges, its why we always advised clients to take the hire shop damage wavier for for 12 Euros a week. They will probably bin and those and not repair them. They work it out based on the RRP of a set of new skis, not their actual cost which would be about 100-200 Euros from K2, trade price on skis is usually 65% less than RRP. It's a bit of a racket on the shops part and the main reason I haven't hired skis for years.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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my policy has an excess of £150 for damage, loss or theft. I'll be taking out extra coverage next year!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm no expert but could poor repairs to the base by the edge have been responsible?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@mango, looks like you've snapped the edge and taken out base down to the core, which suggests a fairly significant impact and possible un repairable skis, so 200 doesn't sound bad to me.
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No they've taken the wee wee but AIUI it's fairly std practice to scam rental customers in this way. Doubt they paid 200 Euros for the skis in the first place even with binding.
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Mind you something in your account doesn't quite ring true - you'd definitely hav felt hitting something to cause that much damage. If you didn't it suggests a previous repair that's ripped out.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mango, I think you are best just posting that against experience, not sure it's worth doing anything else.
BUT, it's a pretty poor ad for precisionski-rent.com.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Mind you something in your account doesn't quite ring true - you'd definitely hav felt hitting something to cause that much damage. If you didn't it suggests a previous repair that's ripped out. |
When they said there is a problem, i just stood there a little stunned as i couldn't think what could have caused any significant damage. I have eye floaters so in low light i can struggle to see which makes me even more cautious than I normally am. It snowed during most days last week so the only thing that could have caused it from my POV is wear from all the extra turns!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You would feel and hear a huge crunch when something like that happened (eg ski over a rock). When did you notice the damage? Were you skiing on them while damaged?
I suppose the 200 EUR is to replace the skis with new ones, not the value of the old ones.
Why not write a complaint anyway. Worst case they ignore it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Perhaps also point them at the fact that the internet if your account is true believes precisionski-rent are a bunch of scamsters.
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@mango, you have been comprehensively ripped off in classic French style. A 3 year old ski like that is practically worthless. Its probably had 50-60 weeks of renting (do the maths) and it cost them circa 200 euro in the first place (excluding binding, I assume that still has life enough to fight another day).
I'm not sure where the line gets drawn between "fair wear and tear" and "damage". If they rent out skis knowing the conditions to be sketchy underfoot then, as far as I'm concerned, they accept the likelihood of accidental damage of the type you had.
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You know it makes sense.
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That does look like significant damage to me, i am amazed that you didn't know when it had happened or at least that it had happened.
Looks the the ski is likely to be scapped, so new for old, €200 rrp sounds rightish.
Need to claim off insurance i think, possibly if you had the shops insurance then you'd have not had to pay out and reclaim yourself..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Why new for old when the hire shop has had the benefit of 3 years of hiring? It's written down to 0 in their books I expect. Only new for old if a brand new ski had been trashed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Themasterpiece damage was noticed by them in the shop upon return. Its entirely possible I could have been skiing on them while they were damaged. The last day was the best, conditions wise, and we got over to Les Arcs so i was taking runs (still only blues) faster than i had all week but didn't feel anything wrong with them.
@pruman thats kind of how it felt but threats about the police plus the need to be getting on our way meant i couldnt see any other outcome but paying, which is why i offered the €200. Afterwards I thought to myself i should have offered €100!
I will definately write to precision ski, for clarity it was a Ski Republic branded shop I picked them up from so precision ski could be a reseller perhaps? I might also try calling my credit card company as the damage charge and the rental was booked on the same card.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 19-01-16 8:21; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mango, what did it say in the contract in terms of liability?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mango, Looking at the bases in the picture, there are plenty of other scratches/scrapes, that could only have been achieved by skiing over stones/rocks. You mentioned you are a careful piste skier, did you check the bases at any point during the week? Could the damage have been there when you picked them up?
It sounds like the typical hire car rip off, where they will try and charge damage to anyone who will pay it. In this case base damage (unless you were riding rails in the park) is part of skiing, it would be like a hire car company having a separate charge for tyre wear. Base damage should be built into their cost model. If however you had returned a ski bent in half, or split, then that would be exceptional damage and you would have to pay.
The bases appear to have good structure, so I maybe the bases had been ground so many times that there was very little base material left.
I haven't hired for years, but my Sister does, and generally the hotel has links with a ski shop that gives a 10% discount, and surprise surprise, the ski insurance is 10%. Given the low cost, and the peace of mind, she always takes it.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 17-01-16 18:49; edited 1 time in total
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| Pruman wrote: |
Why new for old when the hire shop has had the benefit of 3 years of hiring? It's written down to 0 in their books I expect. Only new for old if a brand new ski had been trashed. |
Because it often is..... Think about your insurance....... If your property gets lost, stolen, trashed then would you expect someone to find some 2nd hand 2 year old gear to replace it with or would you expect something new?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd always take the shop insurance but it often will have an excess.
If it's a 3 year old ski its unlikely to have been rented out for 50 - 60 weeks as suggested above. Even in busy weeks shops don't rent out all their skis and in quiet weeks the majority will be sitting in the racks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Don't people check their bases these days?
Am i the only person who runs an eye over them everytime i take them off?
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@mango, a well rented 3 year old ski? In France that means more or less 20-24 weeks.
It was physically on its last legs.
You could easily have done that sort of damage without a major impact. Although you'd have noticed it and I doubt it would have been pleasant to ski on afterwards.
Morally? They're fleecing you.
Legally? You damaged their skis, you pay their rates as contracted.
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May need someone like spyderjon to confirm this but it looks from the photo like a poor base repair next to the same edge near the top of the photo. If so could be worth contacting your card company and opening a dispute with them. Submit the photo if that is a base repair as evidence that you believe the shop is negligent in that it has not repaired damaged skis properly, thus leading to this damage. Also if the skis are not of the standard/type you paid to hire this is added ammunition.
If others here think the "repair" I mentioned is ok then you either take it on the chin or only challenge on the second point I mentioned.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@speed098, on a better look, I think you have a good point. Edge knocked back in, base repaired cosmetically...
Wonder how many times they've pulled that one? On those skis?
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I might be wrong, but just above the damage it looks like it's been filled. If so, there's your proof.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Pruman wrote: |
Why new for old when the hire shop has had the benefit of 3 years of hiring? It's written down to 0 in their books I expect. Only new for old if a brand new ski had been trashed. |
Because it often is..... Think about your insurance....... If your property gets lost, stolen, trashed then would you expect someone to find some 2nd hand 2 year old gear to replace it with or would you expect something new? |
Depends what the policy says - some home insurances are new for old. Most travel insurances are on an indemnity basis, ie their settlement takes account of a write down in value over the period of ownership. If your 4 year old skis get stolen you'll be lucky to get £100 back. And then there's the excess.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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200 euro for replacement skis seems reasonable. However there is no chance that you could have done the damage evident without knowing. I suspect given the conditions even though you had paid for top skis they were in fact handing out "rock" skis. I don't think you will get anywhere with the shop but given you weren't provided with what you paid for a substantial refund is due from the hirer. Well done for the negotiations, the fact that they started at 600 to me smacks of scamming. A letter, threat of small claims, and or dispute with cc company might get you half the 200 back. Won't cost anything to try.
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@mango,
Sale of goods act or whatever the new name is now covers you for Europe if you paid in the UK for the goods/service I think it covers you if you paid in resort but check the new terms not the old sale of goods act. So if those with better eyes than me at present can see previous damage not repaired to a very high std or as you say skis not what was ordered then the new act covers you and small claims in this country could be an option.
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You know it makes sense.
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@mango, although it would take a little of your time, I'd post a brief but justifiably negative review about your experience on as many review sites/snowsports sites as possible.
I was going to be renting from Precision Ski later this month...but I'll go elsewhere now. I'm not suggesting they'll care a jot...but it might be satisfying and discourage a few potential customers.
I'll also be emailing potential rental shops in advance to ask which skis I'll get for my money, as I'll be hiring performance / advanced level.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mango,
Don't write any reviews yet after all you want them to refund the money. If you write really bad reviews of the company they may just dig their heels in. If you get it sorted do you need to leave really strongly worded negative reviews ?
If they do not refund etc and you take legal action then you don't want them producing nasty reviews to try and taint your character.
If you get nothing then you obviously would want to leave the most scathing review possible in the effort to turn business away from them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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By the way- I guess you now own the skis... Have them collected by an independent tech and inspected for previous damage. Not sure it is worth it for e200, but if you had got stung for e300+ then that is what I would have done.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Don't write any reviews yet after all you want them to refund the money.
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They will never refund the money. And it's not a big enough sum to pursue. The only thing to do is put it down to experience and have some fun with it.
Co-incidentally I heard a similar tale last night. Precision Ski in Tignes this time - friend was offered their insurance for his whole party at beginning of the week. He declined it. End of the week he was given print out of the rental charges and lo and behold there was insurance included. They refused to refund it. (there had been no loss/damage either) Argument ensued during which the shop person got very aggressive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So is the lesson learnt - let them call the cops so you can make a counter complaint about fraudulent overcharging?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just wondering if you lost sight of the skis at any point? Could they have switched them? Hearing that they initially asked for €600 makes me think the worst.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Did you actually look at those skis when you picked them up? I wouldn't be too happy is someone tried to fob me off with bases with some of those deep gouges in them. And look at the edge just below the brakes: it seems to be severely rust-pitted. I'm sure those wouldn't develop over the course of a week.
Moral of the story - check them before and note any existing damage (like when you rent a car) - so that they can't accuse you of being responsible for pre-existing flaws.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Acacia i've never really thought I needed to, trusting the shop to provide decent gear. Anyway lesson learnt and all trust evaporated so next time I'll be closely inspecting before leaving the shop and taking out the extra insurance. I've contacted precisionski for now regarding not seemingly getting what I paid for and i'll see where that gets me.
thanks for all the input and advice.
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Problem is that if there was a previous repair and it was reasonably well done then it might have been very hard to spot when the skis were first picked up. And, even if you could spot it, it would be unclear how deep the repair was. I would contact precision-skirent directly; assuming they are a franchise they will not want one shop to be giving them a bad name. Send them the photo and a description of your skiing. If, as you suggest, you were only skiing blues then I really can't imagine you could have done that much damage.
If you get no joy from them, then consider spreading a seriously bad reviews about. But make sure you stick the facts.
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The asset value of those old skis is close to zero, and they know it. The fact that they just turned zero into 200 euros must have made them all laugh about how daft their foreign customers are. "extra insurance" is protection money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To my mind, this thread is the answer to the other thread on whether it's worth taking your own skis. If hire shops are routinely treating their customers like this then the answer to the other thread is a resounding yes.
However, there are hire shops out there who value repeat custom and treat their customers as people, and have a good range of decent quality rental equipment. On the odd occasion that I rent (short term trip using Ryanair for example), this is where I'd head.
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This thread has prompted me to read some hire T&Cs, which tbh I have never done in 20plus years of hiring kit. On this occasion Intersports - they state the replacement value as the list price minus 15% per year of age. the also web site gives a max life span for their hire skis - presumably this would be fairly typical of hire business expectations - the higher the quality package the shorter the life span - down to two years for the top end... so their replacement value in the contract far outpace the appropriate write down.
under the section covering responsibilities it is all down to the hirer except that," the client will not be held responsible for the damaging consequences of hidden faults in the rented not apparent but renders the equipment inappropriate for the use for which it is intended, as long as proof of such faults or wear can be demonstrated by the client." - in the case of the OP I would have thought that the repairs would have been sufficient under this clause...though not all hire companies might be this generous..
No doubt academic in this case (websearch - precisionski.com at Les Coches is SkiRepublic) ... but for me, I might actually read the T&Cs this year.
regards
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