 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No reference in the article to who she thinks is at fault (other than herself - she crossed her skis, no one else did it for her) - only this line:
“In this case, Gemma had total trust in the equipment she was given, and thought everything had been set up correctly. "
So does she think she was given faulty equipment? That isn't actually stated anywhere.
So on the basis of that article only - yes, numpty.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The article seems to imply that the TO should have taken more care to ensure that she wasn't injured. I'm not sure whether the equipment was supplied by the TO but even so equipment failure might be difficult to prove. As you say not sure why she feels entitled to compensation other than "someone else is at fault for my accident and/or the injury sustained"!
If she wins then it will be interesting to see the impact on the ski holiday market.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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She crossed her own skis.....end of story surely. Unfortunate for her but it can be a risky sport.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm sorry for her knee problem, but skiing is an inherently risky sport as has been said. Lo & behold, guess what, you will fall sometimes! Folk like this making dumb claims increase the premiums for the rest of us... Grrrrrr.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It doesn't actually say what injury she has. She would be better off posting details on snowHeads and getting proper advice on rehab rather than taking legal action  .
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Accidents happen and she crossed her skis which caused the injury. Her fault.
If she feels the DIN settings were set too high such that the ski(s) didn't come off when they were supposed to, then she should say that and it can be assessed.
This type of compensation and blame culture that exists really gets to me!
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Numpty
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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poo-poo happens
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| tarrantd wrote: |
| The article seems to imply that the TO should have taken more care to ensure that she wasn't injured. |
The only way TO's would be able to ensure that the people they take on ski holidays stay uninjured, would be to bar them from skiing!
And concievingly, not even then!
What a load of %#^&~♢■●°`!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Now it seems like she'd gone to the national papers in a bid to increase her chances of winning her case, by giving it publicity.... pathetic.
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I thought ski hire shops have a duty of care to ensure the DINs are set correctly for the customer?
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You know it makes sense.
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Provided the TO provided reasonable quality equipment I cannot see that they have been negligent and she will have no case. Cases like this always make me despair of the greed of some people who seem to think they should be paid for every misfortune that befalls them
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| I thought ski hire shops have a duty of care to ensure the DINs are set correctly for the customer? |
Indeed, but is there any evidence that they didn't set the DIN correctly? You can't guarantee a release to avoid injury in all situations.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Rabbie wrote: |
| Provided the TO provided reasonable quality equipment I cannot see that they have been negligent and she will have no case. Cases like this always make me despair of the greed of some people who seem to think they should be paid for every misfortune that befalls them |
It seems from the article that the claim is that the TO supplied skis with the bindings set incorrectly.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think Snowheads should provide the only viable insurance for these people........................
They book and pay for the holiday and one of us goes on said holiday to ensure there is zero risk to them injuring themselves while skiing in the resort 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rabbie, Most of us accept the risks, but there are always those that want to apportion blame. Very sad.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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According to the NewsGuardian report linked by sugarmoma666, she is claiming the bindings were set too high, and the skis didn't release when they should have done.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I first skied in Bulgaria. It was only when I went to the snow dome the next year that I discovered bindings should be adjusted for each skier. We were just handed skis, with no questions about weight etc and no adjustments to the bindings.
I'd be interested in how she plans to demonstrate the bindings were set wrong rather than her being just unlucky.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
I first skied in Bulgaria. It was only when I went to the snow dome the next year that I discovered bindings should be adjusted for each skier. We were just handed skis, with no questions about weight etc and no adjustments to the bindings.
I'd be interested in how she plans to demonstrate the bindings were set wrong rather than her being just unlucky. |
To be handed skis without adjustment is obviously wrong.  Difficult to prove after the fact though.
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The lady needs to prove her accident was due to incorrectly set up equipment. What happened to her skis and boots afterwards...
If they aren't available and there's no video then the publicity seems aimed at an out of court settlement.
I could mention my own recent ski crossing incident, entirely due to my own fekwittery. I may sue myself.
My experience of Bulgaria is that equipment was set up to individual requirements.
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@Vitesse2l, You must've been going too fast.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| geepee wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
I first skied in Bulgaria. It was only when I went to the snow dome the next year that I discovered bindings should be adjusted for each skier. We were just handed skis, with no questions about weight etc and no adjustments to the bindings.
I'd be interested in how she plans to demonstrate the bindings were set wrong rather than her being just unlucky. |
To be handed skis without adjustment is obviously wrong. Difficult to prove after the fact though. |
Luckily I didn't get injured.
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@geepee, If only.
I merely failed to appreciate the difference between turning my foot and pushing the tail of my ski out.
Gave the rest of my group a good laugh anyway.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| I first skied in Bulgaria. It was only when I went to the snow dome the next year that I discovered bindings should be adjusted for each skier. We were just handed skis, with no questions about weight etc and no adjustments to the bindings. |
Without weight info, how do they determine what length of ski to give out? What about boot sizes?
| Quote: |
I'd be interested in how she plans to demonstrate the bindings were set wrong rather than her being just unlucky. |
If the TO indeed simply hand out equipment randomly, probably pretty easy to prove, by the ski hired document which sans entry for weight/height/ability?
We all ASSUME ski holidays are conducted the same as in the Alps. But judging from some of the reports, that may not always be the case? Perhaps that's partially the cause of the problem.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Touchguru wrote: |
| This type of compensation and blame culture that exists really gets to me! |
It winds me up too, but sometimes I wonder what I'd be like in a similar situation. Luckily the company that I work for has quite a good policy on being off work (a colleague recently broke a collarbone while mountain biking and was fully paid for his 6 weeks off), however if I was to be unable to earn full whack for a few months then I'd need to find a way to pay the mortgage...I honestly like to think I'd find a way to do it without resorting to blame, but I can't predict the circumstances and how I'd actually react.
Sounds like this woman has done a pretty good job on her knee (and the photos make it look fairly unpleasant), but I do have to say it sounds like she just crossed her skis (like many beginners do) and fell over in the awkward way that plenty of skiers before her have done. I'd be interested to know what liability a ski rental shop actually has in regard to DIN settings, I wouldn't be surprised if it's mitigated in their terms & conditions. Plus there's always the variable of the person hiring them and how realistic they are. There are plenty of people who class themselves as an intermediate but realistically just aren't.
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Touchguru wrote: |
| This type of compensation and blame culture that exists really gets to me! |
It winds me up too, but sometimes I wonder what I'd be like in a similar situation. Luckily the company that I work for has quite a good policy on being off work (a colleague recently broke a collarbone while mountain biking and was fully paid for his 6 weeks off), however if I was to be unable to earn full whack for a few months then I'd need to find a way to pay the mortgage...I honestly like to think I'd find a way to do it without resorting to blame, but I can't predict the circumstances and how I'd actually react. |
I've had several injuries which I later learned someone else was indeed at fault. Or that I should have claimed under various insurance. Fortunately, my injuries were such that none of them cost me significant down time in my job. So, apart from the various medical expense (covered mostly by my medical insurance), I wasn't missing any significant reimbursement. Still, had the TO been negligent, they should be held accountable.
In one of my injuries, it was a pair of hired skis that the shop did NOT adjust the forward pressure AT ALL. So the boot had a bit of "play" in the binding. When it came time it should have released, it did not (even though the DIN were probably set correctly, but the "play" in the boot-binding interface prevented the correct functioning of the release mechanism)
As a relative beginner at the time, I didn't realize there were two adjustments to make bindings to fit the boot (my own). Still, I felt that odd "play" in the binding was strange. I saw the tech guy adjusting the DIN setting right in front of me, so couldn't understand what else could be causing the wiggling between my boots and bindings. I was in fact on my way down the mountain to go into the shop to have them look into that when I crashed and the binding did not release 
I was carted off the mountain by ski patrol and never gone back to deal with the shop (ski patrol returned the skis for me). Had I suffered injury significant enough to miss many months of work, I think it would only be fair the shop be held accountable and proper compensation discussed. After all, all hire shops carry liability insurance for such situation. Whether that involves legal action or not, I would never know since I didn't suffer enough damage to worth pursuing it further.
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You know it makes sense.
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Numpty if only for describing a trip to Bulgaria as a trip of a lifetime ( wee wee poor journo hyperbolic meme acknowledged)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@abc, you live in a ridiculously litigious society. That aside, and skiing being a reasonably technical activity, it (to me) is your responsibility to reasonably understand enough to know how to set up a binding.
The shop could not "not adjust" the forward pressure if fitting the boots you were using to the skis. They may have adjusted it very badly, but there isn't a separate adjustment for it.
It's on your head to be able to see that the bindings are correct or not.
Mind you, your country is about to elect a laughing stock as it's leader so...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, novices in any sport are more reliant than more experienced folk. I wouldn't expect people to know how to check their bindings are set correctly before they go on their first ski holiday.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| I thought ski hire shops have a duty of care to ensure the DINs are set correctly for the customer? |
I'm a snowboarder, but in North America at least I've seen lots of ski shops and they all have these little cards or bits of paper where they work out the DIN settings. Those bits of paper are the evidence that they asked you the questions and set the bindings correctly (usually too low).
Whilst personally I think you're daft, even as a beginner, if you don't check your bindings. Do they not teach people to do such things in lessons?
I suppose... well, if you were just thrown a set of gear off the back of a truck and no one asked (or wrote down) your weight and experience and ability... then perhaps that could be regarded as negligent. I suppose if that was organised by a tour operator rather than through a shop then you could end up chasing the operator. And if they did that, I think they'd have a case to face. If you're renting gear to beginners then you can't expect them to have a screw driver and the nouse to use it.
You can't "mitigate" against negligence in a contract in that way - the shop needs to take reasonable care, they can't make you sign a paper saying that they don't have to. Ditto the tour operator.
Damages would be tricky though - they're not supposed to be punitive, and your medical care would come from the NHS or local equivalent. Consequential damages, I doubt you could claim those. Sounds like a quiet media day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Michelle63 wrote: |
| She crossed her own skis.....end of story surely. Unfortunate for her but it can be a risky sport. |
But if the dins were incorrectly set...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@philwig, I've never heard of people being taught about bindings and how they're adjusted in lessons (or their importance in terms of safety).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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True, but in my experience all hire shops have asked and recorded height and weight and set the skis accordingly. I think it will be very difficult to prove otherwise. I have had various spills in my time, some the bindings have released and others not. Sometimes things happen by sheer bad luck. If everyone who had an accident that they thought they could sue someone else for, did, we would be living in a very sad world. It would be another nail in the sport coffin.
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I don't know whether this is common but in my friends ski shop in Alpe d'Huez he has a machine where each rental customer keys in there weight, skiing ability etc., it prints out a ticket with the recommended DIN setting and he files a copy of the ticket with your hire agreement.
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@sugarmoma666, this is why ski hosting was such a good safety idea.
Hmm, I won't make any claims I can't back up. However, the Sunday Times Ski Guide, that bible to those that learned in the 70s had a chapter or two on kit, what to look for and how it worked.
And it was explained on Blue Peter when Peter Purves went skiing.
No excuse therefore not to know.
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We should remember that fitness plays a big part in this too and that a woman is more likely to sustain an ACL injury than a man (in competition level between 2 and 8 times more likely) and research has shown that the propensity is increased at certain times of the menstrual cycle. (Allen F. Anderson, MD, et al.: Correlation of Anthropometric Measurements, Strength, Anterior Cruciate Ligament Size, and Intercondylar Notch Characteristics to Sex Differences in Anterior Cruciate Ligament Tear Rates. The American Journal of Sports Medicine 29:58-66 (2001).
Bruce D. Beynnon, PhD, et al.: The Relationship Between Menstrual Cycle Phase and Anterior Cruciate Ligament Injury. A Case-Control Study of Recreational Alpine Skiers. The American Journal of Sports Medicine34:757-764 (2006).)
Given the way in which bindings release then in certain types of fall there is a high probability that the knee will be damaged before the binding release point is reached.
Research also shows that shorter carving skis and improved bindings has changed the type of fall that causes most ACL problems, for recreational skiers, from the backward twisting fall to the forward twisting fall.
I also found this
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| In the UK, a boom in short skiing holidays abroad is leading to a rapid increase in knee injuries, particularly for women. More than 9 out of 10 of the injured skiers were women, with an average age of 40. Women aged over 25 are 2.5 times more likely to tear their anterior cruciate ligament than any other group. Fitness, or the lack of it, plays an important role in general. Women are also more likely than men to suffer a serious knee injury due to ill-fitting ski boots - up to half of all knee injuries are caused by loose-fitting or over-tightened ski boots. |
Whilst I suspect that,as a complete beginner, she wouldn't have known anything about binding adjustment proving negligence will be an uphill struggle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @philwig, I've never heard of people being taught about bindings and how they're adjusted in lessons (or their importance in terms of safety). |
Not taught how to adjust them but we were told about the importance of having the bindings set correctly and making sure that we knew which were our skis due to the DIN setting being different for different people.
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Numpty.
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