 Poster: A snowHead
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Morning all,
I've planned a touring trip with some friends for March, the guide has given us a suggested kit list and he is keen on us all having airbags and has suggested 30L bags.
My airbag is a 15l one, do folk think I could travel light and manage or is there no chance?
The guide has suggested the following kit list
1.Skiing : touring skis with skins and couteaux,
touring boots
30l size backpack with airbag.
Telescopic poles.
Transceiver with spare batteries.
2,40m probe and shovel.
Helmet, Buff hat,sun cream f50
waterproof light ski gloves.
sun glasses with strap and goggles ( if snow forecast )
2. Hut :
lightweight thermal trousers to wear inside the hut.
head torch
phone charger
thermolite sleeping bag liner.
Compeed ( for blisters) !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If your not on glaciers, and won't need crampons, ropes, or harnesses etc, then you should manage. Be aware the guide may ask you to carry some group kit! I would check with him. Where are you going? I've never carried a helmet touring, especially if you're not on a glacier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@jbob, guide has asked us to bring crampons....not ropes or harnesses. Plan is:
Monday morning 21/3 depart St Martin via lift system to ski up to Val Thorens (we will need a four hour Belleville valley pass). We will exit Val Thorens via the Col Chairlift.
Monday afternoon: Ski tour to Refuge Roc de la peche and stay here overnight.
Tuesday ski touring around Vanoise National park and Pralognan and then making our way to Refuge Col de la Vanoise for Tuesday night.
Wednesday morning further half day tour of Pralognan.
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Ah, fond memories of our first ski tour with offpisteskiing: Col de Thorens, Ref de l'Orgere, Col de la Masse, Ref du Fond d'Aussois, Pte de Observatoire, Ref Roc de la Peche (swanky hut!), Col du Vallonet, Pralognan. I'm sure you'll love it.
The best I can manage is a 35 litre sack - and that's without crampons. I usually take a GoLite Jam2 now which, I think claims 50l. It's nice to have some wriggle room if you're rummaging for stuff in bad weather!
Your guide seems to have forgotten food and drink for the day. If you have any special dietary requirements (I'm gluten free) then you'd best take enough for the trip as you won't be able to buy much in the huts. There's not much mention of spare clothing either. Be prepared for any weather and have somewhere to put stuff if it's hot - you'll be skinning in just a shirt, trousers and sun hat.
There's an old packing list of mine here:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=91665&start=40
And a more up to date one here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@altis, There was other text about food/clothing etc, we've all skied a fair bit so understand layers. I guess 15l maybe small, I'll have to trial pack!
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I'd prefer to have space also for the jacket and fleece, so they can be carried when skinning if it's warm. Airbags weren't common when I last toured with a guide but crampons and harness were required. The guide carried a rope and used it for the less confident tourers on steep icy sections. My touring sack is 40l, but quite light, 15l sounds very tight.
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@kitenski, if you are going where I think you are going then I would add a harness, a couple of screwgates and an ice screw to that pack list at the minimum.
Personally, I would also take a pair of swimming shorts as there is a steam room in Roc de la Peche hut.
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@kitenski, Probably no chance. Which airbag? Most give nothing like the advertised volume, as the airbag and canister is usually part of the bags volume. So your 15 ltr pack maybe more like 10-12. If you have a 1 ltr plastic milk bottle (or more than one), see how many you can fit in your pack
I would have thought 30 ltr would be a sensible minimum. There is no mention of water/liquid, which would be at least 2 ltrs of the volume, add in food/snacks, spare clothing/gloves.
If you have been asked to bring crampons but not a harness, it suggests that the guide will be supplying the harness and rope. The guide will carry the rope, but you will have to carry/wear the harness.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, it would have been tight without the crampons. As @PowderAdict, airbags are tight, I think mine is 22l and that's not enough to for hut tours with glacier gear. Too big a sac can lead to inefficient packing, but 30l sounds about right, one issue with airbags is you can't really have stuff strapped to the outside apart from skis as it interferes with the operation.
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@gorilla, I suspect they'll be staying away from the glacier. I imagine they'll just ski down the road towards Pralognan where there'll be a car parked. Then they'll drive across town to the car park near the lifts. A rando ticket will take them up towards the Col de la Vanoise.
The only possible difficulty might be earlier near the Col de Chaviere. Depending on how the wind has sculpted the snow, crampons might help if the going is too steep to negotiate it on skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@altis, from the top of the col lift one obvious route would be over the col de Gebroulaz and then a sharp right turn down to the Roc de la Peche. That would explain the crampons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I really doubt you'll be able to do it with 15l. Remember you need a water bottle etc too. 30l minimum really IMO.
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You know it makes sense.
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cheers all, I don't think it'll be anything hairy, It's ski crampons (couteaux) that he has asked us to bring along, I'd suspect just in case of firm snow/ice in the morning rather than planning to go across ice....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Good news!
A word on telescopic poles: screw-locks are a menace. I've experienced them unscrewing due to my barn doors syndrome and I've seen others have problems getting them to lock when icy and yet more unable to collapse them.
Personally, I prefer fixed poles but, if you must have telescopic then look for flick-locks.
Some collective wisdom here:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=121426
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Poster: A snowHead
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@kitenski, I reckon you can do it. Might need to tie a few things to the outside (crampons, skins, water bottle etc). And maybe ditch the extra trousers. Test it out beforehand though. Sounds like a fun trip. Enjoy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@altis, I have flick lock poles already 
@BobinCH, cheers
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kitenski, if you have an ABS Vario you can get a 24l or 35l replacement zip-on pack for your airbag. I use the 24l one now and it's freedom from the 15l. Snow and rock have the 35l for £55.
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I've got a Snowpulse Pro-Rider 15l, not sure if I can upgrade the bag and re-use the clever bits??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@kitenski, I have a snowpulse, it's only the RAS ones that are interchangeable as far as I know.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kitenski wrote: |
Morning all,
I've planned a touring trip with some friends for March, the guide has given us a suggested kit list.....
2,40m probe and shovel.
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Few years back when I did the week long Euro Avalanche course on day one I was absolutely castigated for having a 2.4m pole !!!
Bruce Goodlad threw it in the snow, and said it would be feckin useless !
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@kitenski, I would go larger than 15 - 25/30 would see you right - I am not a fan of having a huge half-filled bag, but I am even less a fan of having lots of stuff hanging off my pack (even less so if the weather isn't great), and if the weather is good you will need space to stick in or attach jacket etc.
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| Quote: |
30l minimum really IMO
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+1
I tried to do it with 20 and ended up swapping to a bigger pack.
add water, your share of the lunch (probably lunches for two days at the start), room for skins/ski crampons/extra layer when you are not using them and 15l isn't realistic
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As above, slim to no chance!
Even for tours of less than a day you'd want 1.5-2L water available, or at least the option of carrying the 2L.
IF you managaed to cram everything in (which I doubt), it would be very difficult to get anything out without emptying the whole bag / the bag would explode when you tried to get anything out, which in anything other than perfect weather could be a disaster...
Just rent a bag for the trip, also avoids the potential airport faff.
Enjoy!
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I've done an overnight tour with a 15L pack, went very light and it was fine. I basically had day-touring gear (skins, couteux), 1L of water, snacks, a spare thermal top for evening wear and a very thin sleeping bag liner and a head torch, I *think* that was it. I had to hang my jacket off the pack for the uphills and I managed to duck out of carrying any communal gear. 30L would be ideal but if it's just a one-off I'd would at least give it a trial run. Take a waterproof stuff sack in case you need to stash something like a fleece, gloves etc for an uphill slog, then you can clip that to your pack. It's not ideal but it can work.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ok well I bit the bullet and bought a 30L pack, two other related questions.
1. Is a cheap liner fine? I assume it's not for warmth more for hygiene, or is warmth important? looking at something like this http://www.sleepingbagsoutlet.co.uk/yellowstone-envelope-liner.html
2. What do you wear in the hut in the evening? Guide said to bring "lightweight thermal trousers to wear inside the hut."
Cheers,
Greg
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The thermals I was wearing under my salopettes (a fetching pair of 3/4 length merino hobbies) or some swim shorts if it was warm enough to go thermal less.
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A cheap liner will be fine. It'll probably be cold in bed but there are usually spare blankets to be found in the dorm.
In the huts I usually change my thermal top but that's about it. I've never changed my trousers. Dining rooms / lounges / balconys can be cold too so I often wear a down jacket indoors.
Don't forget to take your head torch to diner - you'll need it later.
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You know it makes sense.
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There will be plenty of blankets, I've never been cold in bed in a hut.
Evening wear is often just thermals... not the most fetching look, and after a few days it's borderline antisocial (well, it is very antisocial but since most people do it you can get away with it). If there's room in your pack you can take really thin trousers maybe, it's a bit of a luxury but well worth it. I also carry a spare t-shirt just for in the hut too, it feels like luxury to change out of thermal in to a t-shirt:-) Hardcore tourers would likely frown upon such things 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Take merino so you don't stink like the guides!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I take a cotton t shirt and either a different set of thermals or some shorts for the evening. A fresh set of socks is also nice. None of this is strictly necessary but it feels good to get out of your minging ski stuff, maybe give yourself a wipe down with a wet wipe and get into some clean(er) gear
Liner is purely for hygiene. You're more likely to be too warm than too cold if the hut is busy. Top tip - get a spot near the window in the dorm if you can
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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just heard we have a posh shower the first night 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In that case you'll need to pack your bath robe and slippers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Arno, I'll have to take the champers out to fit them I'm though...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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earplugs!
I've "enjoyed" positively symphonic snoring from a hut full of Italian gentlemen of a certain age
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Arno, do you mean a fresh pair of ski socks per day or a pair to put on when you get to the hut??
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One to swap into in the hut. A luxury but worth it if you have the space imo
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@Arno, cheers, so one pair of ski socks for a 3 day tour do you think?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did my first overnight tours last year, and really wished I had had a spare top to change into because I had got a bit wet on the sleeves during the day. I was also a bit cold in the hut dining rooms once out of ski kit.
Ear plugs, eye mask, travel toothbrush and tiny toothpaste.
I took a tiny pack of travel wet wipes (2x for each day) and a tiny travel deodorant but that's probably frowned upon as being luxurious.
I got a silk liner as I run a bit cold. The one I got is lovely and soft and light, but it is fragile.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Natural-Undyed-Hobo-Sleeping-Liner/dp/B007TIQXK2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1458211095&sr=8-4&keywords=sleeping+bag+silk+liner&tag=amz07b-21
For my next hut to hut I would take a warmer 'spare layer' so I wasn't cold in the evening. I would also take a spare pair of socks for the evening because I had wet feet as well. Oh, think my thermal pants got wet as well so I had to take those off and go sit in bed until they dried so would have been better if I had had a spare pair of thermal trousers to change into.
Maybe the moral of the story is try not to get wet anywhere? 
Enjoy.
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Pack baby wipes.
My gf is still in awe (way beyond disgust) of the smell when I turned up to her place after a hut trip at Gran Paradiso last season - 3 HOT spring days touring (two nights in the hut) all in the same set of synthetic layers (no spare set, so ALL of that time in those layers), driving directly to her place after we got back down the mountain. Baby wipes would have helped wash better.
Merino next time  One pair of ski socks should be fine, but again I'd go merino.
Also ducktape. My feet got destroyed with blisters skinning in such heat (sweat), so I literally had to mummify them in duck tape to make the summit ascent bearable on the last day.
Kendal Mint Cake is a very packable food to give a lot of instant (albeit short lasting) energy when you're knackered at altitude. Keep some in pockets in your jacket/trousers so you don't have to stop to grab a bite. Also take some sort of muesli/cereal bar for more long-lasting complex carbs. A couple of protein bars are also helpful to repair/revive your legs after each day skinning to be fresher for the next.
Personally I like a camel back type bladder for drinking on the move, then two other small ~1l water bottles (rather than one big) to keep hydrated. Keep one water bottle easy to access on breaks, and when it's empty switch it to the other. I drink a LOT of water skinning as dehydration is the quickest way to get knackered.
Big thick warm down jacket for sitting outside the hut and watching the sun go down.
Headtorch is an absolute must, and a kindle/book is VERY nice to have.
I guess you're not doing on your own cooking, but being the dirtbag I am a took a stove and cooked outside in the sunset. The Knorr dehydrated pasta meals are cheap and surprisingly good! Much better than the dedicated 'expedition' dehydrated meals. Bit weird at breakfast mind!
Also you don't mention ski crampons! Can be indispensable on early morning re-frozen snow. Clip to the outside of your pack or somewhere you can easily get them if needed.
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FAQ
