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Which 'all rounder' pin binding?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
With all the new releases having had time to settle out, which of the pin bindings are the way to go, assuming I'm looking for something that will perform on piste as well as be up for some touring.

The choice seems to be:

Vipec Black

Dynafit TLT Radical ST 2 AT (Not sure the difference between ST & FT?)

Marker Kingpin 10. (My preference so far based on the Interweb...)

Any thoughts ?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If I were in the market for new tech bindings, I'd certainly put a set of G3 Ions high on the list ... (if only for the "bling" factor) but they do seem to have come through their first full year of usage reasonably unscathed in the web review stakes.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've got Vipecs mounted on the Downs...you can try them in Greesoney Cool

I've used my ST1s for everything the past few seasons. Bit harsh on boilerplate but fine otherwise. ST2s should be more comfortable with the sliding heel piece (I think that's the case?). Went Vipec this time for the lower delta and can hopefully avoid shims and additional costs of QKs.
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They all had issues on the first release (the Dynafits weren't actually released, but had problems), but the V2's seem to be sorted out now (until the next issue is found).

I think the Vipec Black is effectively a V3, as the pin retention correction was the V2. I have read of the unique sideways toe release causing issues (ski falls off) on chair lifts if you clack your skis together.

The Dynafit Radicals maybe the most biased away from regular piste skiing. But I ski happily on my older Radical ST's on pistes when required. As far as I am aware the FT is supposed to be stiffer than the ST, also slightly heavier.

The Marker Kingpin heel piece is supposed to give the most alpine like heel feel (well it is effectively an alpine heel), so maybe the best option for serious piste skiing.

Personally I use my Radical ST's for long climbs (2-3 hours), and Beast 16's for everything else.

I'm sure some real experts will be along soon.....
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Skied my Beasts on and off-piste with zero issue, they seem identical to an alpine binding with respect to shock absorption and retention on piste Very Happy
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Me and the OH skied Vipecs all last season and did a substantial amount of touring on them.

Did have a couple of issues with them but I now know what to be sure of when going from uphill to downhill.

I skied the King Pins on the British Ski Industry test in Kuthai, in fact I went out of my way to only demo skis with that binding, apart from the SCOTTS.

Last Sunday I was skiing on the piste with two friends who have the latest Dynafit, and my mate did say it's more of a faff using them than the previous TLT's and Beasts as he found with the swiveling toe piece made it difficult to line up the rear pins. So he often ended up locking the front to get in!

I do still use my simple TLTs as well.

I found that when I changed my boots there was a notebale difference to using the Vipecs in that they released more like they should!

Think I've mentioned before on here that setting the Vipecs up is like setting a rear derailleur on a bike!

What I am frankly staggered about is how some retailers and the Media can base their opinions (awards) on only a few hours on some of the kit!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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What are you all trying to achieve here? Unless you are skiing in the ultralight end of the touring boot range then your boots fit in non pin/tech touring bindings and with a little effort many other bindings as well.

Piste duties and some touring to me sounds like Marker F10's or similar - Oh and before you say I don't want a heavy binding it's 110 Grams heavier than a Kingpin ( and less than certain other freeride pin bindings) and less than half the price from the same manufacturer and way more versatile.
Yes these bindings don't tour as well as a pin binding but then in reality you are probably touring 5% of the time and they are so much better at being normal bindings.

If you are going to go down the pin/tech route for touring get some lighter ones ore there is no point - Say the radical from Dynafit or the Guide from Plum being as heavy as you want to go.

I see so many wannabies on Beast's and Kingpins, sorry all the steepest lines were (and still are) skied on basic dynafits or Alpine binders, a lot of the times on just beatup ex rentals.

If you need DIN 12 you are not Skiing steeps or touring, you are either Racing or in a Freeride Comp/Movie.

If your skis are coming off when they are set as per a DIN chart then ski more smoothly or maybe you don't like your knees? 19/20 ACL's that end up my physio's in Cham had their bindings set too high!

Yes I lock the toes on my Plum race bindiers if I'm skiing the Midi arete, but only there and the upper part of Glacier Rond (it's a true 45 degree pitch) or Couloir Cosmiques (the first few turns a very likely to make contact with rocks) but otherwise I'm happy with the fixed release value of 7.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Idris wrote:
I see so many wannabies on Beasts

I have Beasts and want to ski when I grow up, so I totally resemble this remark Very Happy
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@idris

What people have to remember Tom is that, at the end of the day, there are two hardened steel points at the toe and a couple of bars at the heel. That is the same for any tech binding. From a 250 gram race binding to a Dynafit beast.

I'm not sure what an "all rounder pin binding" is. Given the universal truth I've just stated, and given the cost of bindings, using pin bindings for bashing piste kilometers is idiotic as the pins and boot contacts wear out and even the best pin binding won't release as well as an alpine binding.

So for piste use: an alpine binding. For off piste use: an alpine or heavy duty tour binding as you have mentioned. For climbing, well most people round here use the cheapest Dynafits (speed turn) at around 220 euros because they are easy to get in and out of and frequently more robust and, as I said, you still only have 4 points of contact (ok a lot of tourers will glue a support below the heel to take the load off the rear pins). The latest speed turns are largely metal at the toe piece. I've got TLTs which I use daily which are 15 years old (I've also got some of the 1st production run of plums). That would probably be a few lifetimes of ski touring for the average joe. The only trend I've noticed over the last 5 years amongst serious ski tourers is towards using lighter weight skimo bindings.

I think we pretty much agree on every point but maybe we are ignoring people who want to come for a week's skiing with 1 pair of skis?
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Zero_G wrote:
Idris wrote:
I see so many wannabies on Beasts

I have Beasts and want to ski when I grow up, so I totally resemble this remark Very Happy


Me too.
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@davidof, I'd argue that for one or two weeks a year you want to rent anyway
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
davidof wrote:
...maybe we are ignoring people who want to come for a week's skiing with 1 pair of skis?

Or people like me who head out for entire season with a single pair of skis and bindings.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Idris wrote:
What are you all trying to achieve here? Unless you are skiing in the ultralight end of the touring boot range then your boots fit in non pin/tech touring bindings and with a little effort many other bindings as well.

Piste duties and some touring to me sounds like Marker F10's or similar - Oh and before you say I don't want a heavy binding it's 110 Grams heavier than a Kingpin ( and less than certain other freeride pin bindings) and less than half the price from the same manufacturer and way more versatile.
Yes these bindings don't tour as well as a pin binding but then in reality you are probably touring 5% of the time and they are so much better at being normal bindings.

If you are going to go down the pin/tech route for touring get some lighter ones ore there is no point - Say the radical from Dynafit or the Guide from Plum being as heavy as you want to go.

I see so many wannabies on Beast's and Kingpins, sorry all the steepest lines were (and still are) skied on basic dynafits or Alpine binders, a lot of the times on just beatup ex rentals.

If you need DIN 12 you are not Skiing steeps or touring, you are either Racing or in a Freeride Comp/Movie.

If your skis are coming off when they are set as per a DIN chart then ski more smoothly or maybe you don't like your knees? 19/20 ACL's that end up my physio's in Cham had their bindings set too high!

Yes I lock the toes on my Plum race bindiers if I'm skiing the Midi arete, but only there and the upper part of Glacier Rond (it's a true 45 degree pitch) or Couloir Cosmiques (the first few turns a very likely to make contact with rocks) but otherwise I'm happy with the fixed release value of 7.


According to the Marker website the Kingpin 13 is 730g with brakes vs Tour F12 EPF 1090g. Dynafit radical ft 2.0 is 630g. Kingpin also has an Alpine style heel and looks, to me at least, an interesting option to mount on a lighter ski for lift served offpsite / hiking / touring for someone who would otherwise be deciding between a Dynafit Radical 2.0 vs F12 style binding.

Review and further info here https://www.wildsnow.com/14363/marker-kingpin-binding-review/
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Interesting comparison with Radical here https://www.wildsnow.com/18358/dynafit-radical-2-marker-kingpin-comparo/

Summary:

First, let’s ask the important question: What’s the intended use? If you’re looking for a bomber everyday touring binding then my advice is always lighter is righter. Go with the Radical 2.0 —- if you have to carry something up 3,000 feet, you want the lightest set-up possible. Every gram counts. I weigh 160 lbs, ski aggressively (and it’s not pretty) and always have my bindings set to a release value (RV – DIN) of 8. I would go with the ST version since I do not need a higher range for a DIN setting. This choice saves me weight and a few dollars. Also, in full disclosure, I’ve skied Dynafit bindings in the backcountry for the last six years, and at the resort and backcountry for the last four. I am used to them and like the way they perform. If you’re used to traditional tech bindings and they work for you, why change? (Indeed, while we’re talking Radical 2.0 here, many ski tourers who enjoy minimalist tech bindings will no doubt be sticking with less complex and lighter bindings such as Dynafit Speed Radical.)
However, let’s say you were buying your first touring set-up or what would be your only set-up for the season. I would recommend Kingpin. The “step-in” performance of the alpine-style heel will be a benefit for days at the resort. Also, the Marker heel really allows you to power the tails of the skis to drive hard through a turn. This is especially important if you’re used to that same feel in an alpine binding, and don’t want to adjust your timing and technique for a softer heel. What is more, people tend to ski a more high-speed hard-driving style at the resort, and using a touring binding for such has always been problematic. Kingpin easily supports that style of skiing.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof wrote:
I think we pretty much agree on every point but maybe we are ignoring people who want to come for a week's skiing with 1 pair of skis?


^^This.

If i was in resort full time it would be less of an issue but I can't be arsed lugging 2 sets of ski's through airports, or multiple bindings. So really i'm looking for something that has a reasonable breadth of ability on the basis that I don't know whats going to be on the menu week to week.

With this in mind I went for Freedom SL boots with both sets of soles so I can use sensible piste ski's if needed.

Interesting point about the contact points front and rear. Another consideration.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:


Interesting point about the contact points front and rear. Another consideration.


it is true that some of the hybrid bindings like the Kingpin at least beef up the rear.

But I still wouldn't do hard charging resort skiing on pin bindings. I mean I can hammer a nail in with a drill but I wouldn't do it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@davidof, @Idris, simple fact is trad tech bindings feel like utter poo-poo on anything other than powder. The jarring and vibrations take any fun out of skiing any sort of hard snow - for me, anyway. Even when skiing slowly. I have 0 issues with them (pre or otherwise) releasing, but I just HATE the feel of them.

I really hope my new Kingpins solve the problem.

Though I agree if you want one binding to do everything a Duke or similar is still the way to go unless you're regularly skinning >1k vert.

Quote:

If you are going to go down the pin/tech route for touring get some lighter ones ore there is no point - Say the radical from Dynafit or the Guide from Plum being as heavy as you want to go.

I see so many wannabies on Beast's and Kingpins, sorry all the steepest lines were (and still are) skied on basic dynafits or Alpine binders, a lot of the times on just beatup ex rentals.


The weight is fairly irrelevant, skinning on any pin binding is just so much easier and more efficient than on Dukes etc. After selling my dynamite set up in the Autumn I recently did a tour on Barons, and it sucked. All the steepest lines are skied slowly and carefully, not in the 'freeride' way the new pin bindings are trying to facilitate, so that's fairly irrelevant. Most were probably also skied with locked toes.

I think you and Davidoff are coming at this from too much of a touring perspective.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
think it also depends a lot on you style of skiing , i use my radical st on both powder and everyday skis , i love the light weight and simplicity of them , and dont find them at all rough on firm snow etc , except proper re frozen crappy snow that would feell uncomfortable to to me on any combo !! but i like to ski at a steady pace in all conditions and am not a "hard charger" . Used to think my barons were the bees knees but would not go back to them for any money . and santa has just fetched me a new pair of mythics so can now take three pairs of skis and one binding for them all in one bag on plane Very Happy

also check boot compatibility with the kingpins , i hear some dont work??


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 1-01-16 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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@idris. You said exactly what i was thinking but too lazy to type.... wink
5 years ago the lift lines were full of wannabe extremos with marker dukes.
A great touring binding for people who dont actually like touring.
These days that crowd buy beasts or kingpins.
When in reality the Dynafit Radical,TLT or Plum is all they actually need (assuming they really need a touring binding)

@clarky. Have to disagree. IMHO dynafits ski better than most touring bindings.
Zero stack height and direct connection to the ski.

A little thought on performance...
A metal laminate 100mm freeride ski will weigh about 1.8kg.
A soft noodely light touring 100mm ski will weigh 1.2 - 1.5kg.
Saving a little weight by selecting a minimalistic binding (say TLT or plum) is what makes selection of a slightly heavier ski more justifiable and sane.
Which of course makes the downhill more fun Very Happy
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Interesting to see just how strong the views are? Binding snobbery, who would have thought...
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Zero_G wrote:
Interesting to see just how strong the views are? Binding snobbery, who would have thought...


IMHO it is a simple case that the original 20 year Dynafit TLT was minimalistic brilliant in its implementation.

Improvements since then have been incremental, rather than step changes, usually at the expense of extra weight.

The smart observation made previous by Idris that marker F10 weighs almost same as a kingpin puts that clearly in focus.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
clarky999 wrote:
...simple fact is trad tech bindings feel like utter poo-poo on anything other than powder. The jarring and vibrations take any fun out of skiing any sort of hard snow - for me, anyway. Even when skiing slowly. I have 0 issues with them (pre or otherwise) releasing, but I just HATE the feel of them.

I really hope my new Kingpins solve the problem.....


It's the elasticity of the pivoting toe of the Beasts & the Rad 2 that take the harshness/vibrations out. Those that have skied these bindings as well as the previous models confirm this and the heels are essentially unchanged. The Kingpin has a regular Rad 1 style fixed in line toe - they can't have a pivoting toe as it's a Dynafit patented (pending) design.

Some other things to consider:

Don't believe all the blurb re the reason for the alpine heel on the Kingpin. A tech heel combined with a brake is a Dynafit patented item so if Marker wanted a heel mounted brake then they needed a different design. Yes, there are other makes of tech heels on the market that have brakes (Vipec/G3 Ion & Onyx etc) but they have a licensing agreement with Dynafit. This is why some tech bindings have to have complicated/expensive toe mounted brakes (Plum). Considered this re the Kingpin alpine type heel: At the heel the user is actually standing on a squidgy vibram sole so when the boot is tipped there's a loss of transmission to the binding compared to the metal to metal tech/pin heel design. When switching the soles between alpine & tech on my Cochise boots I could feel this difference when using Barons so it's definitely a valid point. And the new Rad 2 heels are torsionally stiffer than that of the Rad 1 & the Beast even more so. However, the Kingpin heel is a very elegant design in its own right.

The Beast is often criticised for not having a flat walk mode but it a lot less ramp angle to start which makes a noticeable difference & the heel can be rotated 90 degrees with the brakes rubber banded up which is very functional (but not elegant) solution. The ramp angle of the Rad 2's is considerably less than that of the Rad 1 models.

My comments look like I'm very pro Dynafit but I sell both. I don't have any affinity to either that's not experience (inc workshop testing & maintenance) based. It's hard not to acknowledge Dynafits 30 years of experience with tech bindings but they've also fooked things up a few times along the way. I've skied a fair few weeks on Beasts & two weeks switching between Rad 2's & Kingpins on a pair of Brahma's dual mounted with inserts (all skiing with same Mercury boots). I stock them both as there's boots that will only worth with one & not the other. Also the mounting patterns are different so for buyers with predrilled skis sometimes there's only one choice available. There's also the non-swappable but wide rangle of actual use brakes of the Dynafits versus the swappable but dodgy brake lever mounted retraction catch/size change at 100mm width brakes of the Kingpin that'll be important to those sharing the one binding across different skis.

From a marketing point of view Marker score 10/10 whilst Dynafit about 3/10.

For the freeride-touring-single-binding-do-it-all-market (which is what we're talking about here) it's actually very difficult to compare the models as there isn't a true like for like comparison as the Kingpin falls between the Rad 2 & the Beast. So last week I skied a Baqueira hard pack red run with a Rad 2 on one ski & a Kingpin on the other and, for me, it's all about the pivoting toe Toofy Grin
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
IMVHO the elasticity argument is overplayed.
Whilst it is true it only applies to very hardsnow and is in reality minor concern.
Frtischi tried to add elasticity and made a sloppy vipec tech binding no one wants top use....

Would agree that Radical 2.0 looks like excellent compromise option for those that want DIN rating and brakes on tech binding.
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clarky999 wrote:

I think you and Davidoff are coming at this from too much of a touring perspective.


That is for the simple reason that tech bindings are touring bindings not a downhill alpine piste binding; whatever the various marketing departments would have you believe. (and again I note that some people may only want 1 ski and binding setup for everything and accept that they will be paying a lot for a less than 100% performant alpine set up, that's their choice).


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 1-01-16 20:07; edited 1 time in total
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Haggis_Trap wrote:


The smart observation made previous by Idris that marker F10 weighs almost same as a kingpin puts that clearly in focus.


That doesn't seem to be substantiated by the weights on the manufacturers websites?

Radical ft 2.0 630g
Kingpin 730g
F10 999g
F12 epf 1090g
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So to go back to the original question the smart money seems to be on the dynafit radical 2.0
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
^ agree. Radical 2.0 looks like smart option.

Though if performamce is concern I still believe that a lighter 300g TLT (no brakes) makes using a heavier more 'freeride' ski for touring more justifiable and sane.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 1-01-16 20:54; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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@Haggis_Trap, Try your maths again, the 999g F10 is 36.8% heavier than the 730g Kingpin (269g lighter).

Closer comparisons would be:

Beast 14 830g
Beast 16 950g
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BobinCH wrote:
So to go back to the original question the smart money seems to be on the dynafit radical 2.0


If you are skiing on piste working ski brakes are nice, the problem is they don't work on steeper off piste pitches. So we come back round to the original premise being wrong.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just out of interest guys, what's your seasonal vertical and number of tours?

Davidof and I are Strava busom buddies so we know what shite we do, I'm just sort of curious as when people on t'internet start posting on subjects like this. What's their reccomendations POV based on, a single week a season, a week or two of hut to hut etc etc or one to two tours a week for through out the season?

All I know that conditions change so much from week to week, month to month that your bindings might be a PITA one trip and then fine for the rest of the season?

Another factor to consider is ones overall fitness and who you're going up on the hill with and whether it's spring snow or powder?

This year in my quiver I have some Scott 110 Cascades with the heavy old bindings but I'll probably be fine on those as I tend to be a tad fitter than most even though I'm an old fart rolling eyes
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm with the old fart tourers on this Wink. If your touring activity is generally an hour or so from a lift with the occasional longer tour thrown in, tech bindings aren't worth it. If you think an extra 200g per foot is going to ruin your day, it isn't
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Arno wrote:
I'm with the old fart tourers on this Wink. If your touring activity is generally an hour or so from a lift with the occasional longer tour thrown in, tech bindings aren't worth it. If you think an extra 200g per foot is going to ruin your day, it isn't


If you're generally only touring for an hour, I'd agree. But if you're normally skinning for around 3 hours, then tech bindings are the difference between an enjoyable hike and a sufferfest - for me. Not 'cos of the weight, but the frame and pivot.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
clarky999 wrote:

I think you and Davidoff are coming at this from too much of a touring perspective.


That is for the simple reason that tech bindings are touring bindings not a downhill alpine piste binding; whatever the various marketing departments would have you believe.


Obviously. But there's a big difference between 'touring' as in wanting to go and travel through the mountains, and the gap that these newer bindings are trying to fill.

If your aim is just to ski untracked snow after the resorts are tracked, but you still want to ski fast and jump off stuff, what do you do? Get tech bindings and still have to be more careful and conservative in how you ski, or get Dukes and suffer on the up.

Most of the 'touring' I do is in the Kalkkögel. 2-3 hours skinning from the resort depending on which slope/couloir I choose. Really fun steep terrain, which I want to ski as I do in the resort form the lifts with downhill gear on a powder day. I've skied there lots on my old TLT speeds, and when there's powder they're fine - but I still always have that niggle of doubt and concern in the back of mind that I just can't shake, and hold back a little*. I've skied there lots with Barons, but never gone for multiple laps as lots of vert on them is just too much work.

Kingpin and Beast fill the gap (hopefully). Not perfect, but progress at least.

*Lots of people justify this by saying "but don't you ski slower and more carefully in the backcountry than the resort anyway?" For me than answer is no - the reason I tour is precisely to find the untracked snow and lack of crowds to ski as hard as I can at my ability level.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 2-01-16 16:03; edited 1 time in total
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spyderjon wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
...simple fact is trad tech bindings feel like utter poo-poo on anything other than powder. The jarring and vibrations take any fun out of skiing any sort of hard snow - for me, anyway. Even when skiing slowly. I have 0 issues with them (pre or otherwise) releasing, but I just HATE the feel of them.

I really hope my new Kingpins solve the problem.....


It's the elasticity of the pivoting toe of the Beasts & the Rad 2 that take the harshness/vibrations out. Those that have skied these bindings as well as the previous models confirm this and the heels are essentially unchanged. The Kingpin has a regular Rad 1 style fixed in line toe - they can't have a pivoting toe as it's a Dynafit patented (pending) design.

Some other things to consider:


I do get that, but the new Dynafits are ridiculously expensive and almost impossible to get a good deal on (I can't afford anywhere close to the RRP).

I've read lots of reports and reviews (e.g. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/marker-kingpin-13/2) and don't for a minute buy the koolaid that Kingpins are a true one binding quiver and ski like alpine bindings, but the consensus seems to be that they are a big improvement (and that the no flat touring on the Beast is a killer on approaches). Haven't had a chance to ski them yet, but I'm still hopeful the Kingpins feel better, though I'm not expecting miracles. Will be nice to have a better connection to the tail of the ski anyway.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 3-01-16 18:32; edited 3 times in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Haggis_Trap wrote:


@clarky. Have to disagree. IMHO dynafits ski better than most touring bindings.
Zero stack height and direct connection to the ski.



You're lucky, then! For me, unless it's powder, (trad) Dynafits take the fun out of skiing. Too chattery and jarring.
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So here's my quiver.

From left to right.

Black Diamond Aspect 176 very light and mounted with old Dynafits - this is a very light setup. Skis were actually from a mate, the top sheet had delaminated and he was given a new set, so I got these repaired as he'd only used them three times.

I use these on long spring snow day tours when I fancy a change, and the smaller length is great for tight turns.

In the middle Scott Powdairs 183 with Vipec generation 2 - my main touring skis.

Then the new set for this season.

Scott Cascades 110 with Scott Guardian Frame binding - I also have the new skins from Scott which are very light.

These will be my main powder ski and I'll always pack the skins as sometimes in the past I've had to hike back up to the OH or other friends if they've had a mishap.

They'll also be great for when we do slack country, that is going off the back of the resort and then eventually skin back up into the resort via another valley further down.

They replace my White Doctor 104 TwinTips which have been relegated to rock hoppers, but still loads of fun to ski as I was skiing on them this morning.

snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@AndAnotherThing.., I'd go for the Radical or G3 Ion personally.

On the whole bluh, bluh, bluh I'm more hardcore and "insert whatever I dislike" makes you less debate. I've got Radicals on most of my skis and the Beast on the longest mostly because I wanted a "Freeride Touring" binding that played nicely with my Mercuries and at the time of buying that was the no brain choice. Skiing pin bindings on piste is no problem IME. My latest skis are light and getting Radicals from another pair on them because having a two year old means I'm unfit and need help going uphill. Smile
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I didn't want to post on this before, as up until now I'd only been using my new Radical 2's in a fridge (breaking on new boots), but I've finally got out on a real mountain, and love them Very Happy

Yesterday - skiing hard beat-up snow, with a bit of fresh on top (still coming down). No issues that I noticed at all with harshness etc. Very happy and comfortable. No noticeable problem compared to previous skiing on alpine bindings (though it was an easy day).
Today - 3 short-to-medium skins, and skiing through some actually very good snow (some bottoming out, but a fair bit of fun). So lots of switching between modes, skis on and off in deep-ish (ok, like 20cm of fresh on top of previous) snow etc. Not a single problem with any of that, all very simple and straightforward. And I'm really enjoying the difference in uphill motion compared to frame bindings. I'm not sure how much of it is down to the weight (no serious long skins today) or just that to me it feels like a more natural and easy motion.

Now I'm not in any way hardcore! I just enjoy skiing (and today was the kind of day that makes me love touring - I just wish I was fitter Smile ). The 10din max is all I need. And yes, there may have been another option that would have been fine, and maybe cheaper - but I'm really happy with my new set-up.

I previously had soft beginner boots, and Marker Squire bindings, which aren't exactly stiff either - and I told CEM and spyderjon I wanted/needed to move to a much stiffer set-up, with a better connection to my skis. And that's what I've got - I feel much more dialled in, it's definitely a more direct contact throughout, but no harshness whatsoever that I've felt. Now that's only based on 2 days, and some fridge sessions, but I'm currently very satisfied.
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I trust the experienced tourers know what you're on about with regards to recommended bindings for longer tours. The Beasts suit my current needs just fine (I'm hardly going for the lightest setup considering the skis they're mounted on) and they're better than my old Barons.

I'm very happy with my choice. One day, when I have more experience, I may change my gear.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
fixx wrote:
.....and today was the kind of day that makes me love touring - I just wish I was fitter.......


When it comes to gear and weight ratios, be it cycling, windsurfing etc where weight & volume play a critical role it's one area that is cheaper and easier to change.

Cycling up a mountain is a damn site harder if your 90kg rather than 80kg. If you're windsurfing then you'll get going on smaller kit if your way lighter than a mate.

And the same is so true for ski touring, even more so!

I'm no lightweight frame build so I have to watch out as I can easily pile the kgs on, especially after the silly season we've just finished.

Today I was out on my light gear, those BD's in the image above along with my Salomon MTN Lab Explorers, managed 1,200m in under two and a half hours and fairly beasted myself, which always happens when your "tout seul", but still not too bad for an old fart Cool

Now need to redo bases as they're scratched to hell Sad

And so glad did not take the new skis out, but hopefully same route later in the week with them as I can't see them opening that sector up for a while.
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