 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Appologies if this topic has been covered previously somewhere on the site!
Im off to Mayrhofen in Austria on Saturday for a week.
I've read a couple of different articles on the internet that state in Austria, RED runs are basically the equivalent of BLUE runs compared to the likes of France etc ... so
Black - Hard
Red - Some gentle and some challenging slopes
Blue - Generally easy runs that suite most beginners
Green - Not very common !!
I will be snowboarding with my girlfriend with my 6 day zillertal super ski pass so i will be going to all the different areas.
I would class myself as the top end of intermediate - swaying towards advanced (moguls etc are easy for me !), and my girlfriend I would say is the top end of beginner stage.
Can you confim what the criteria is re the above and if it is indeed the same as france, or not ...and any nice windy runs prefibly with trees that you can recommend to go on whilst we are there.
Cheers :0)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Same as France but blue and green are combined.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have skied fairly extensively all over the Alps and I have never found much difference in the gradings between the different countries. Others may well correct me.
I guess to an extent it depends on your level. If you are a beginner to early intermediate, then you may well pay a lot more attention to the grading, whilst more experienced skiers/boarders may just take it as they find it. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Same as Feast, I never really noticed any difference either.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also not noticed a difference between France / Austria
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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There are no green runs in Austria. There are nursery slopes which may have a magic carpet or 'Ubungslift'. Then there are blue, red and black pistes. I often don't notice the colours of the piste markers, but I think the grading is more generally more consistent, i.e. the green run 'Verte' in Val D'Isère would probably be a red in Austria. What I have occasionally found is tricky red runs which might have been graded black if they were not links from one area to another, i.e. grading them black might deter people from accessing the links, but on the whole the runs seem to be graded correctly. Of course a black run is much easier than a blue run if it's less busy/mogulled/icy, it's more to do with conditions than piste marker colour.
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| Quote: |
(moguls etc are easy for me !
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You ain't top end intermediate dude! You're a Pro. I am still waiting to find a boarder who can handle moguls rather than making em!! 
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Mayerhoffen is a pretty varied Resort.
the Ahorn mountain is probably your girlfriends best bet , although the blue run that winds back down to the top of the Penkenbahn is good fun if you like cat runs
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kaltenbach is best for long cruisey runs, take the link from there through to Hoch Fugen for a few more tree runs. Penken side of Mayrhofen can get pretty busy and most of the runs there tend towards proper red levels of steepness.
You can take the train to Kaltenbach from Mayrhofen - it's free if you're wearing snow sports kit and it's only a 5 minute walk across the car park from the train to the gondola. At left hand side of the Kaltenbach piste map you'll find some really nice pistes that your gf will like and the Kristallhutte - a really cool hut with resident DJ and great food/drink/scenery.
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Most important difference between runs in France and Austria is that (and appologies if I get this one the wrong way around) in France the number on the piste marker posts is the distance to the end of the run while in Austria it's the number of the run.
Always takes me a day or two to switch my head around that one 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| wib wrote: |
| Quote: |
(moguls etc are easy for me !
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You ain't top end intermediate dude! You're a Pro. I am still waiting to find a boarder who can handle moguls rather than making em!! |
I always see my job as a boarder is to flatten the moguls out after the skiers make them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hochfugen/ Kaltenbach area is good for tree lined runs and flatteringly graded, there is also a good freeride area. You won't find much unpisted/mogulled on the marked pistes except end of day bumps. By morning the whole lot will be ironed flat. There are no "natur" runs like in France, Austrians don't go much on mogul runs unprepared runs are called "Skirouten" or freeride areas and marked dotted on piste plans, they are usually avalanche controlled but not patrolled. Check locally because it differs.
Oh and don't do what a boarder mate of mine did in Zillertal by trying to tag a piste marker on the way past like he does in France. The markers are 2" wooden stakes hammered in hard not bendy plastic. He ended up in a snotty heap and I didn't even have a camera.
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You know it makes sense.
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Last Xmas I fell over into a market pole. It hurts
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mjit wrote: |
Most important difference between runs in France and Austria is that (and appologies if I get this one the wrong way around) in France the number on the piste marker posts is the distance to the end of the run while in Austria it's the number of the run.
Always takes me a day or two to switch my head around that one |
That is my understanding as well about the piste markers in France, only I am not sure if that applies to all the French resorts or just the major ones that get discussed most here. The marker poles are every one hundred metres so as an example pole number nine means that it is nine hundred metres to the end of the run etc. I think the name of the run is usually printed in small letters around the upper rim of the circular board.
I think it's a great idea and I wonder if other countries do not use it because they did not think of it first.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Don't take her down Harakiri. That's definitely black.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agree on Harakiri. It's very black and when I first tried it I lost my edge and slid about 200m.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| richjp wrote: |
| France ... The marker poles are every one hundred metres so as an example pole number nine means that it is nine hundred metres to the end of the run etc. |
IME it is knowhere near that precise. Your "hundred meters" rule may apply someplaces, but in the majority of places then they are just count down markers. On long runs, e.g. Cascades from the top of Flaine down to Sixt you can go best part of a km without seeing any markers - especially on the track sections.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The OP is right. We are just back from a week in Obergurgl, and we usually ski in the Grand Massif, and the blacks in Austria are comparable to the reds in France. The Austrian reds are comparable to the French blues. The colours are relative to each other within the resort rather than the same across the Alps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@bompey, et al...
The colours of runs are set by each individual mountain.
They act as a comparison of one and other on a specific mountain.
So a black on a Mountain A is the hardest run on that mountain.
A black on Mountain B is the hardest run on that mountain but might only be a red if it was on Mountain A.
With my local area the difference between the black runs is incredible.
So they are guides to the difficulty within a specific area.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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With a touch of marketing magic added in for that special je ne sais quoi ......
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| bompey wrote: |
| The OP is right. We are just back from a week in Obergurgl, and we usually ski in the Grand Massif, and the blacks in Austria are comparable to the reds in France. The Austrian reds are comparable to the French blues. The colours are relative to each other within the resort rather than the same across the Alps. |
What Flangesax said.
There are far more variations between resorts than between countries.
Obergurgl gets lots of rich Russian visitors who like to be flattered that they can 'ski black runs.'
Reds and blacks in places like the Arlberg and Ischgl are 'harder' than many in the Dolomites and PdS in Italy and France, and SkiWelt (and apparently Obergurgl) in Austria. There is no country-wide consistency.
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How stupid. Difficulty of run is a basic safety item.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| How stupid. Difficulty of run is a basic safety item. |
True, but the difficulty of a run depends largely on the conditions. In 3V the other week I skied green runs that were a bit tricky in places because they were shaded and well used, so had ice all over them. By comparison some of the red runs were in the sun and a bit softer so much easier to ski.
And as much as run classification is about difficulty the resorts will also seek to use it as a marketing tool, much like the supposed piste mileage. So a resort looking to bring in the beginner/family/early intermediate skier won't look to cram a bunch of red/black runs onto their piste map.
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@Frosty the Snowman, it doesn't seem stupid to me.
You are skiing a mountain.
The map shows you very clearly the easiest, middle and hardest runs available on that terrain.
Simple!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@flangesax, Unless you are a local, then how do you know how hard the skiing is. It would seem that few knew that the mountains in Austria are graded by runs in that resort and not to their actual difficulty.
I'll stick with stupid.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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But it is the same everywhere.
As for as I know there are no 'official' rules and regs for piste grading.
It is just a speculative process.
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You know it makes sense.
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As we all surely know, an icy narrow stony blue can be harder than a steep but wide forgiving well pisted black. flangesax has it right. The colours are a useful guide but ultimately it is your responsibility to decide whether to give it a go or not. Just because you can ski a red in one resort doesn't mean you can't be caught out by a blue - even in the same resort.
If you rely on the colour grading as an absolute then every piste would have to be re-assessed and regraded every day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@espri, French beginners don't ski on blues, they ski on greens.
In response to OP:
1. Regarding difficulty of pistes: in practice condition of snow is more important than steepness. How crowded a piste is can be a major factor. These vary day to day and are not considered in piste grading
2. Marketing is all important as already mentioned. Steep resorts will want to advertise blue runs, and non-steep resorts will want to advertise blacks
3. Because most French resorts have a green grading, it is true in general that average French blue is more difficult than Austrian blues, and average French reds probably also slightly more difficult, but this is generalization and you may find more variation between resorts in same country than between countries (e.g. there aren't many easy slopes in St Anton, so blues are definitely harder than in many French resorts)
4. There is more variability in black slopes. Many French resorts leave many blacks ungroomed, these are harder than groomed pistes, but are still official patrolled avalanche controlled pistes. This is more nebulous in Austria and especially Switzerland where such runs are deemed itineraries, not patrolled, and maybe not even avalanche controlled. So marked black pistes in these countries won't be at same level as French "naturide" runs, but you're not comparing like with like
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think I am correct in saying that some areas place orange tips on the top of markers on one side of the piste to help you get your bearings in whiteout etc.
on a separate but related note there remains an issue with some people skiing or riding inappropriately for the run they are on e.g. going too fast or too close to others or both down a run that is likely to have beginners or more timid folk on it, i guess that could be a whole other topic though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| @espri, French beginners don't ski on blues, they ski on greens. |
Oops, I had forgotten that  . Maybe that difference explains some confusion. Although I was probably thinking of skiers making the next steps after the absolute beginner stage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As someone only recently confident enough to try out any run in a resort, for me the puzzle of blue/red/black is quite fresh. The advice I was given was to always start on the easiest in the resort and ski my way up the colours to get a feel for the mountain and the way the area has been graded.
I still do this as a warm up every trip even though I know where I'll end up.
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FAQ
. I too suspect that there is sometimes a marketing aspect involved in assigning a piste category, e.g. in this case avoiding having only a black piste serving the new link lift, though I expect that measured strictly the category would fall within the norm.